U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[Trillian]

The point is, I don't think that consistently scoring, during the season, Top 10 at Worlds is enough to justify being selected to the Olympic team unless you back it up with placing high enough at Nats to earn one of the spots outright (1st-2nd if only 2 spots, 1st-3rd if 3 spots).

And there are other people who think that having one (1) great showing at nationals isn’t enough to justify being selected to the Olympic team over other skaters who have consistently demonstrated the ability to be more competitive in an international field, which is why this is going to be the exact same conversation forever and ever and ever and ever and…

But we can have this conversation without diminishing any of these guys, because none of it was “luck” for any of them. Ilia had a great showing at nationals because he’s incredibly talented and has a ton of potential. Jason had a great showing at the Olympics because he can consistently show up and execute his programs at a high level when other guys often don’t. Vincent did what he did at Worlds today because he’s a fighter and doesn’t give up. Camden skated so well at Worlds because he’s always had a performance like that in him. Nathan is one of the all-time greats, period. Most other countries would have been happy to have any of these guys on their Olympic team, we just had the misfortune of not being able to send all of them.

Who knows which three will go to Worlds next year, but I’m glad it will be three and looking forward to seeing how they develop.

 

[jlai]

I think in the past, skaters were more likely to need an Olympic experience before medalling in their second Olympics. I think times are beginning to change and you see more and more skaters medalling in their first Olympics in recent years. In fact, with ladies, you can win the Olympics in your first senior season.

That's neither here nor there. US men rock!

 

[aka_gerbil]

I think in the past, skaters were more likely to need an Olympic experience before medalling in their second Olympics. I think times are beginning to change and you see more and more skaters medalling in their first Olympics in recent years. In fact, with ladies, you can win the Olympics in your first senior season.

That's neither here nor there. US men rock!

Every skater has a different trajectory. Hanyu won on his first trip. Kurt Browning made 3 and never won an Olympic medal. If Ilia is as good as everyone says, not being in Beijing won’t matter in 2026. And even if he doesn’t win then, maybe that means skating until 2030 and getting to enjoy a long career.

In the fields that the US has a lot of depth, they prioritized experience for the Olympics this time around. It’s a valid choice.

 

[misskarne]

Congratulations to Vincent on his medal, I'm so glad he was able to end his season on his terms after all the bullshit of the Olympics. (I'm still mad for him about the closing ceremony.)

And congratulations to Camden for that rather epic super sub performance.

Ilia did well for his first top-line Senior event. Top 10 at his first Worlds is nothing to sneeze at. I am very much looking forward to seeing how he develops as an all-round skater.

 

[Karen-W]

Brief interviews with all three US men -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70LKchTf5Ws - Ilia - such a great attitude! He knows what he needs to learn and focus on doing going forward. Can't wait to see him in Tallinn in a few weeks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qKiwYAHuPg - Camden - he's definitely staying in for the next four years and wants to go to the Olympics!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNSrm35bPew - Vincent - realized he needs to have more faith in himself and keep pushing through the adversity!

 

[Firedancer]

Congratulations to all 3 US men!

Nothing can replace what Vincent missed out on at the Olympics but I’m happy he could end his season this way.

Ilia started off so strong. This is a great learning experience for him and I hope he can come back and win junior worlds to end his season.

And a small medal for Cam! I love his skating but I really never would have predicted this. So happy for him and hope this gives him confidence going into next season. They said on NBC he plans to go to Columbia and train while communicating with his coach via Skype.

 

[Trillian]

Congratulations to Vincent on his medal, I'm so glad he was able to end his season on his terms after all the bullshit of the Olympics. (I'm still mad for him about the closing ceremony.)

I don’t think I’ll ever stop being angry on his behalf about that last part. There’s so much of what happened to Vincent at the Olympics that can be chalked up to bad luck (the positive test) or bad choices (the handling of the team medals) in an undeniably hard situation. But the closing ceremony situation was just so senseless and awful after everything else.

 

[Carolla5501]

And who is to say if having the Olympic experience with ZERO pressure wouldn't have been a good learning opportunity for Ilia in preparation for Worlds?

I'm sorry, but, no, no one here is ever going to convince me that sending Brown to the Olympics was the better decision, not especially for the long term future of US figure skating, even if Brown did make the most of it and gave NBC the peppy, rah rah social media content it clearly wanted from at least one of our US men's skaters. He filled the role that Rippon created in 2018 and that's it.

Our US men proved they were capable, any combination of the 3, of earning 3 spots, and I'm happy for that. I'm also very happy for Vincent, especially in light of the mixed zone interview he gave on Thursday where he said he wasn't landing anything last week in practices before he left for France. It's a real personal victory for him to medal here.

Let’s see

Which skater has made the worlds minimum before Nationals

Which skater had to go to a late international to make the minimum


In a depleted field Ilia came in where?

Under the Olympic pressure Jason came in where?

Sorry that facts appear to say to me USFS made the right choice

 

[Karen-W]

Let’s see

Which skater has made the worlds minimum before Nationals

Which skater had to go to a late international to make the minimum


In a depleted field Ilia came in where?

Under the Olympic pressure Jason came in where?


Sorry that facts appear to say to me USFS made the right choice.

Not really.

Which skater had exactly ONE senior international event before Nationals during the first year he was eligible for the Olympics?

Yeah, so much pressure on Jason at the Olympics. He was the #3 man going in and everyone knew his scoring ceiling wasn't going to get him within spitting distance of the podium. That's the same amount of pressure that a skater making his Worlds debut, becoming only the 9th man to break the 100 point barrier in the SP and finishing 4th in that segment is going to have knowing he absolutely has the tech content to earn a medal is under.

The false equivalencies you are are trying to equate in your post are sad and embarrassing.

The USFS made its choice. Whether it was right or wrong will be debated at least as long as, I suspect, Tara-Michelle 1998 or Nancy-Oksana 1994.

I'm looking forward to Jr Worlds in a few weeks. Hopefully, after that we can start a thread for the new season and put the debate behind us for awhile.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Which skater had exactly ONE senior international event before Nationals during the first year he was eligible for the Olympics?

Malinin chose to skate Junior. In the past, USFS has selected skaters who made this choice -- Zhou and Edmunds -- but, there was no guarantee, and that was a risk he took.

The USFS had a choice: an experienced skater who wasn't their first or second choice, but might have been needed to sub in for the team event, in case of a positive cv test, or a potential future star who could use Olympic experience. We can go in circles about this until the cows come home, and use Malinin's results at Worlds to argue either point, but those were their options, and they chose the former.

 

[Allskate]

What a great day for the U.S. men. Three spots for next season. Vincent had a wonderful skate and medaled after a heartbreaking experience at the Olympics. Camden had a fantastic competition, placing fifth, and gaining great experience and hopefully confidence. Ilia showed great potential for future international competitions and had a valuable learning experience.

And, as a bonus for me, Shoma had two beautiful skates to become World Champion!

I can't let the repetitive and persistent whining and arguing about Olympic team selection interfere with my enjoyment of Worlds today. (It would be great, though, if there were a separate thread for the ad nauseam posts on that topic.)

 

[Stephanie]

I'm thrilled to hear that Camden will be continuing until 2026. Here's hoping he finds a training arrangement that isn't too exhausting.

 

[A.H.Black]

Could someone please pm me when it's a better time to come back to this thread. I'm taking a break until then.

 

[Bouffantrex]

The USFS made its choice. Whether it was right or wrong will be debated at least as long as, I suspect, Tara-Michelle 1998 or Nancy-Oksana 1994.

No way. There are maybe a half dozen deranged fans on this forum who want to debate Malinin-Brown. That's it. Tara-Michelle is a footnote of history, at best. Nancy-Oksana is iconic and cemented in pop culture history.

 

[Hedwig]

Could someone please pm me when it's a better time to come back to this thread. I'm taking a break until then.

I second this. I have been a huge fan of Ilia for more than two years now. But this debate of pitching him against Jason makes me suddenly lukewarm to him and that he really does not deserve. He is such a star in the making.

 

[AYS]

I'm thrilled to hear that Camden will be continuing until 2026. Here's hoping he finds a training arrangement that isn't too exhausting.

Hopefully it will work well being based in Manhattan, where you can just hop on the subway to go between the rink (amybe Chelsea Piers, SCNY) and school. No driving in rush hour to and from the rink. And although he said his plans are to work via Skype with his coaches, I assume there must also good coaches available in the area to give some face-face help on at least some aspects.

 

[Karen-W]

Hopefully it will work well being based in Manhattan, where you can just hop on the subway to go between the rink (amybe Chelsea Piers, SCNY) and school. No driving in rush hour to and from the rink. And although he said his plans are to work via Skype with his coaches, I assume there must also good coaches available in the area to give some face-face help on at least some aspects.

I think it's still a bit of a commute between Columbia and Chelsea Piers, but there are some good coaches there - Lindsay Thorngren is a member of SCNY and I think she's in NYC too. It could definitely work for him, if he's able to find the right balance between school and training. I'm crossing my fingers for him because if he's finally getting on track with his competitive mindset, he's going to be an exciting factor during the next quad.

We've all been saying "if only" and worrying about our men post-Nathan/Jason/Vincent, but, I'm feeling more hopeful. Ilia is a mad talent, Camden is glorious, hopefully Max Naumov will be healthy next season, and if Tomoki can get on track like Camden... then there's Liam Kapeikis, Kai Kovar, and the rest of the junior guys who are just starting to get their 3As and quads... And I expect that Nathan's gold has just inspired a whole new generation of boys to take up the sport, so I think we're in a great spot for a long time to come.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Agree with @Karen-W about the future for US men. But right now I'm still all warm and fuzzy that the US medaled in all 4 disciplines at Worlds. Vincent, Camden and yes, Ilia represented themselves and their country darn well! As did all the US medalists! And I too am staying away from the Olympics selections whining. I'll watch many of these programs again and again.

 

[her grace]

I have made a Brown v. Malinin Olympic team selection thread in the trash can for anyone who wants to keep kicking that deadhorse.

Back to Worlds, I was shocked that Pulkinen skated two amazing programs. Hope this is the beginning of him turning his career around and becoming a force. He has a nice blend of developed skating skills and artistry with a couple quads. I am pleased that Zhou had a redemptive performance. I don't understand the grumbling about the Tech Panel's calling--many of those jumps were visibly Q/under without needing a replay. Zhou makes the most of what he has, but there are some technical deficiencies. Good for him that everything still adds up to medal-winning skates. Malinin's skate was tough, but hopefully, this will motivate him to a strong performance at Junior Worlds.

 

[olympic]

Looking forward, I am happy for Camden but I wonder where he wants to go from here. Right now, that performance at ‘22 Worlds is even with the best RUS has to offer for example (and I realize that may be a bad example because RUS future is questionable).

I think he will need to land a 4S and another type of quad to be competitive with JPN men and maintain all that momentum. International judges are willing to give him strong GOE and PCS

Or maybe he is just competing with himself and this is all he ever wanted

 

[concorde]

Big difference though Ilia will be much older and experienced then those skaters if he does make it to Mila in 2026. He might even have a world title under his belt by that time.

The way I read this thred, 1st Olympics tends to be learning experiences, 2nd time is where things "click."

Following that, 2026 would be Ilia's 1st Olympics. 2030 would be is 2nd (he would be 25 years old). That is a long time for any skater, but especially quadsters.

 

[jlai]

I think it's still a bit of a commute between Columbia and Chelsea Piers, but there are some good coaches there - Lindsay Thorngren is a member of SCNY and I think she's in NYC too. It could definitely work for him, if he's able to find the right balance between school and training. I'm crossing my fingers for him because if he's finally getting on track with his competitive mindset, he's going to be an exciting factor during the next quad.

We've all been saying "if only" and worrying about our men post-Nathan/Jason/Vincent, but, I'm feeling more hopeful. Ilia is a mad talent, Camden is glorious, hopefully Max Naumov will be healthy next season, and if Tomoki can get on track like Camden... then there's Liam Kapeikis, Kai Kovar, and the rest of the junior guys who are just starting to get their 3As and quads... And I expect that Nathan's gold has just inspired a whole new generation of boys to take up the sport, so I think we're in a great spot for a long time to come.

Are folks forgetting Torgashev?

 

[Karen-W]

Are folks forgetting Torgashev?

I didn't include him because it sounds like he is still struggling to even get his jumps back. I also didn't include Paniot.

 

[angi]

I don't know if anyone has seen this, but in one of the Twitter threads about Vincent, Rudy Galindo said he had witnessed Vincent being abused by his mother:

https://twitter.com/RudyValGalindo/status/1507757268019789824

https://twitter.com/RudyValGalindo/status/1507760606027214853

I have so much respect and admiration for Vincent knowing how many struggles he had to endure and how open he is about his mental struggles, this is just confirmation of what has been rumored for years, but it's one of those cases where your heart just breaks for someone.

 

[bladesofgorey]

I think it's still a bit of a commute between Columbia and Chelsea Piers, but there are some good coaches there - Lindsay Thorngren is a member of SCNY and I think she's in NYC too.

Lindsay lives in New Jersey trains in Hackensack and Mennen Arena in NJ- the latter has (or had) a ton of freestyle ice time for a lot less money than Chelsea Piers
edited to add: Hackensack is not that far from Columbia University via car, about 25 minutes without traffic (although there's always traffic).

 

[jlai]

I didn't include him because it sounds like he is still struggling to even get his jumps back. I also didn't include Paniot.

Paniot managed a clean short despite the injury so he may be back on track next season. HOping the same for all the 4-10th place guys who are nursing small or major injuries.

 

[BittyBug]

I think it's still a bit of a commute between Columbia and Chelsea Piers, but there are some good coaches there - Lindsay Thorngren is a member of SCNY and I think she's in NYC too.

It is a bit of a haul and would require either a healthy walk or taking the C, which is a local train with lots of stops. But the bigger issue (to me) is the very weird ice at Sky Rink, which combines dance and freestyle. I know many rinks do that, but it's not something I could ever get used to when I skated (which is a long time ago). I guess if would depend on the mix and number of skaters on the session.

Also, while a lot of skaters represent SCNY, most of them train elsewhere. I think Thorngren's primary training base is in New Jersey.

 

[RoseRed]

The way I read this thred, 1st Olympics tends to be learning experiences, 2nd time is where things "click."

Following that, 2026 would be Ilia's 1st Olympics. 2030 would be is 2nd (he would be 25 years old). That is a long time for any skater, but especially quadsters.

I guess the 2010 Olympics were a nice learning experience for Virtue/Moir then.
Anyways, I know that's a different discipline, but plenty of skaters have very successful first Olympic games (and tons of athletes in other sports as well). Of course the experience is very valuable, but athletes can and do succeed at their first Olympics, including winning it all.

Spoiler: Examples

In men, first-time Olympians who medalled in recent years:

• Yuzuru Hanyu - won gold in 2014 (19 yo)
• Shoma Uno - won silver in 2018 (20 yo)
• Yuma Kagiyama - won silver in 2022 (18 yo)

And even Boyang did better at his first in 2018 compared to Beijing (4th vs 9th)

In dance, we have:

• Virtue/Moir - won gold in 2010 (20/22 yo)
• Davis/White - won silver in 2010 (23/22 yo)
• Ilinykh/Katsalapov - won bronze in 2014 (19/22 yo)
• Papadakis/Cizeron - won silver in 2018 (22/23 yo)

In pairs, we have:

• Stolbova/Klimov - won silver in 2014 (22/23 yo)
• Sui/Han - won silver in 2018 (22/25 yo)
• Mishina/Galliamov - won bronze in 2022 (20/22 yo)

And in women, obviously we have a lot of concerns over stuff that's been happening, but you see lots of women succeed at their first games:

• Yuna Kim - won gold in 2010 (19 yo)
• Mao Asada - won silver in 2010 (19 yo)
• Adelina Sotnikova - won gold in 2014 (17 yo)
• Alina Zagitova - won gold in 2018 (15 yo)
• Evgenia Medvedeva - won silver in 2018 (18 yo)

 

[skatfan]

The way I read this thred, 1st Olympics tends to be learning experiences, 2nd time is where things "click."

Following that, 2026 would be Ilia's 1st Olympics. 2030 would be is 2nd (he would be 25 years old). That is a long time for any skater, but especially quadsters.

Yuma seemed to do quite well in his first Olympics - a silver medal. Ilia will be ok.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

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