U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[Yuri]

No doubt in my mind that Ilia should have been sent. As was pointed out elsewhere, if Ilia had delivered in Beijing what he did in Nashville, he would have been at least 4th, possibly 3rd. He should have been sent for experience.

Agree 100% that Ilia should have been sent for the experience. As NBC's coverage reminded us, Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, and Evan Lysacek all had prior Olympics experience before they won their gold medals. Ilia had the jump arsenal to compete with the three Japanese men, but more importantly he needed international exposure before Worlds and the Olympics experience to prepare for 2026. While Jason skated as well as he could to finish 6th, and nearly 4th due to Hanyu's implosion, it does nothing for future USA skating.

 

[VGThuy]

Controversial opinion I know, but I just don't get all the love for Jason Brown AT ALL. His jump content would not even get him on the podium in the ladies.

And funny enough he was within 2 points of placing 4th, just off the medal for the men. And maybe he would place on the podium in ladies, in a fair competition.

 

[Xela M]

And funny enough he was within 2 points of placing 4th, just off the medal for the men. And maybe he would place on the podium in ladies, in a fair competition.

Only because all/most men (bar top two) imploded. In a fair competition with everyone going clean, his jump content is simply ridiculous

 

[VGThuy]

Only because all/most men (bar top two) imploded. In a fair competition with everyone going clean, his jump content is simply ridiculous

Fair competition doesn’t mean clean (unless you’re talking about clean in a different way and I’m assuming most of the men here were that kind of clean).

Now here’s my controversial take, I’m sick of Ilia Malinin and people are becoming very Fanyu with him.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

A little over the top don't you think? Fanyu level? I don't think so. It's about Yuma level I would say.

 

[VGThuy]

A little over the top don't you think? Fanyu level? I don't think so. It's about Yuma level I would say.

I don’t see Yuma fans repeating themselves over and over and continually criticizing other skaters in a manner that makes it seem like they were personally attacked by those skaters.

 

[firstflight]

There’s a lot of Jason Brown praise on social media today from casual fans. I’ve seen the sentiment that he was the highlight of the event over and over.

 

[mtnskater]

Any word on whether Vincent is still in crud quarantine? I sure hope if they ever do hold the Team medals ceremony he can be there!

 

[emason]

In a fair competition with everyone going clean, his jump content is simply ridiculous

But his skating content is not, and this is the sport of figure SKATING, not figure JUMPIMG.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

As NBC's coverage reminded us, Scott Hamilton, Brian Boitano, and Evan Lysacek all had prior Olympics experience before they won their gold medals.

Those men also credited the extra 4 years in which to learn and grow. Ilia will have the opportunity to get all the competition and exposure and experience he needs by 2026.

 

[Tavi]

Only because all/most men (bar top two) imploded. In a fair competition with everyone going clean, his jump content is simply ridiculous

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and you’re entitled to yours about Jason. You’re entitled to love only skaters who jump x number of quads, if that’s what floats your boat.

But that doesn’t mean you’re entitled to create a world of alternative facts where the only “fair” competition is one where every single guy skates clean.

Anyone who has ever looked at Jason’s competitive and scoring history for even two seconds would know that if he was fully recovered from the injury that kept him off ice for two months this past summer, he had a good chance of placing exactly where he did. I’m sorry if you don’t like his 6th place finish without quads, but he earned it.

 

[Vagabond]

There have been very few, if any, elite skaters of either sex who could execute Jason Brown's programs this season with all of their jump content, choreography, and skating skills (not to mention his non-jump elements). Skating skills may be marked as part of the Program Component Scores, but they are athletic skills.

 

[Polaris]

There’s a lot of Jason Brown praise on social media today from casual fans. I’ve seen the sentiment that he was the highlight of the event over and over.

He was definitely the highlight of the Men's for me. He was figure skating in its purest form.

 

[toddlj]

It's all a risk/reward analysis. If Hanyu had simplified his program and skated clean, he'd be on the podium. But he chose to go ahead with elements that were very risky and it did not pay off.

Jason chose to go with only what he could execute perfectly. It was the best strategy for him. The score system being what it is, a simple and perfect program can score better than a difficult and sloppy one. Do we really want to reward guys with sloppy quads and/or no in-betweens, spins, or choreo? The guys on the podium were (mostly) able to do both.

It's sort of like the competitor who won Top Chef by doing "simple" salads... and making the best f'ing salads of all the salads. The attention to detail, the knife skills, the flavor palate, the freshness, are all important things. Not just being able to cook a big slab of meat.

 

[flyushka]

TBH maybe I'm crazy but I think the US team selection cost them a pretty damn good chance of a second medal in the men's event if Ilia could have skated similarly to Nationals, especially the way the event unfolded. Six clean quads over the course of the competition would have been hard to hold down, with the mistakes made by others and Zhou out as well. His PCS wouldn't have been at the level of the Japanese skaters of course but he's no slouch and I don't think Olympic judges tend to outright lowball young skaters on PCS like people tend to imagine.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Whoa.. I think Ilia has a great chance of being the future of American men.. but to suddenly think that he would've been on the podium at the Olympics. A young man who has never skated internationally at the Senior Level, hasn't even get his levels yet to skate at the Olympics could've scored above Shoma or Hanyu or Kagiyama or.... okay I'm staying away from this thread for a while!

 

[screech]

TBH maybe I'm crazy but I think the US team selection cost them a pretty damn good chance of a second medal in the men's event if Ilia could have skated similarly to Nationals, especially the way the event unfolded. Six clean quads over the course of the competition would have been hard to hold down, with the mistakes made by others and Zhou out as well. His PCS wouldn't have been at the level of the Japanese skaters of course but he's no slouch and I don't think Olympic judges tend to outright lowball young skaters on PCS like people tend to imagine.

I think Ilia could have likely been placed as high as 4th or 5th with lights out skates. His components aren't really much better than Grassl who skated lights out in the FP and was 4th there. I think that everything else that Yuma and Shoma had to offer would have easily kept them on the podium

 

[euterpe]

I think Ilia could have likely been placed as high as 4th or 5th with lights out skates. His components aren't really much better than Grassl who skated lights out in the FP and was 4th there. I think that everything else that Yuma and Shoma had to offer would have easily kept them on the podium

Grassl finished 4th in the FS but was 12th in the SP; he was 7th overall. And Grassl has had years of international exposure at the Senior level, which Ilia is lacking at this point. Leading up to the Olympics, Daniel Grassl actually was #1 on World Standings; Ilia Malinin is #40.

I am a big Ilia fan, but he would have been lost in the shuffle had he been sent to Beijing. He'd be getting newbie PCS scores and his jumps would be looked at with a magnifying glass by the tech panel. I doubt he could make it to the top 10.

 

[Karen-W]

Grassl finished 4th in the FS but was 12th in the SP; he was 7th overall. And Grassl has had years of international exposure at the Senior level, which Ilia is lacking at this point. Leading up to the Olympics, Daniel Grassl actually was #1 on World Standings; Ilia Malinin is #40.

I am a big Ilia fan, but he would have been lost in the shuffle had he been sent to Beijing. He'd be getting newbie PCS scores and his jumps would be looked at with a magnifying glass by the tech panel. I doubt he could make it to the top 10.

You keep telling yourself that. With the way the top 10 skated last night, I'm quite positive that Ilia would have easily been the 2nd highest US man last night had he skated the same as in Nashville.

 

[VGThuy]

If the skaters did less than their best last night, Ilia could have easily done the same. If we’re going to give Ilia the benefit of skating his best against last night’s performances than it’s also fair to think he could have replicated his Cup of Austria CS skates as well. The US decided to go with known quantities with the men who all qualified to the GPF and have had international senior success. The Olympics are always a gamble and nothing is guaranteed and that goes for Ilia as well. He could have been amazing or he could have made major mistakes. We don’t know.

 

[flyushka]

I think Ilia could have likely been placed as high as 4th or 5th with lights out skates. His components aren't really much better than Grassl who skated lights out in the FP and was 4th there. I think that everything else that Yuma and Shoma had to offer would have easily kept them on the podium

Well Grassl did beat Shoma in that segment and was quite close to placing 3rd over Hanyu with an underrotated 3/3 combo so it can be done even with that level of PCS (and I do think Malinin's are somewhat higher than Grassl's). Malinin had a slightly higher base value than Grassl at US Nationals so with a lights out skate it seems quite possible for him to do the same or better. Malinin does 2 quads in the SP to Grassl's 1, and if skated as well as US Nationals should get positive GOE and could plausibly be in better striking distance after the SP.

 

[missing]

I had a number of reasons why I thought it would make sense to send Ilia to the Olympics and Jason to Worlds, and none of them had to do with Ilia's chance at medaling. Jason had no chance of medaling either, so that seemed to be equal (Vincent, I thought, had a chance).

What I've said repeatedly is it would have been valuable experience for Ilia, assuming his career continues and he makes the 2026 Olympic team.

But there were other reasons. First of all, Ilia took silver at Nationals, and I think that accomplishment should be rewarded. When he had the opportunity to compete against Vincent and Jason, he defeated them.

Next there's the peculiar fact that Ilia wouldn't have had to qualify for the Olympics as he now will for Worlds. At a time when travel is difficult and Covid is around, an additional competition is not necessarily an easy thing.

Finally while Jason had no chance of medaling at the Olympics, I think he would have had a chance at a post Olympics Worlds. Post Olympic Worlds can be kind of fluky, and skates like Jason just had might have earned him a medal he hasn't yet won.

 

[euterpe]

Well Grassl did beat Shoma in that segment and was quite close to placing 3rd over Hanyu with an underrotated 3/3 combo so it can be done even with that level of PCS (and I do think Malinin's are somewhat higher than Grassl's). Malinin had a slightly higher base value than Grassl at US Nationals so with a lights out skate it seems quite possible for him to do the same or better. Malinin does 2 quads in the SP to Grassl's 1, and if skated as well as US Nationals should get positive GOE and could plausibly be in better striking distance after the SP.

Here are Ilya's PCS scores from his one and only international senior event (Austrian Cup):
SP 34.08 (7.10 6.75 6.90 7.05 7.00) 13th
FS 70.20 (7.03 6.70 7.10 7.00 7.00) 2nd; he was 3rd overall

Here are Daniel Grassl's PCS scores from Euros, where he won silver:
SP 41.93 (8.36 8.18 8.50 8.39 8.39) 5th
FS 82.42 (8.32 8.04 8.32 8.21 8.32) 2nd; 2nd overall

You say Ilia's PCS scores are higher than Grassl's? In what universe?

If you're comparing US Nationals scores to ISU scores: that's a nono. Nationals scoring is always very inflated.
Wait until Worlds, then you can make a head-to-head comparison.

 

[Rukia]

Well I guess we'll find out soon enough how Ilia compares to the rest of the field at Worlds (provided he gets his min).

 

[sheetz]

Amazing video of past US gold medalists welcoming Nathan to the club

U.S. Figure Skating on Instagram: "Nathan, welcome to the gold medal club 🥇💖 @nathanwchen x #WinterOlympics"

11K likes, 137 comments - usfigureskating on February 10, 2022: "Nathan, welcome to the gold medal club 🥇💖 @nathanwchen x #WinterOlympics".

www.instagram.com

 

[Karen-W]

Amazing video of past US gold medalists welcoming Nathan to the club

U.S. Figure Skating on Instagram: "Nathan, welcome to the gold medal club 🥇💖 @nathanwchen x #WinterOlympics"

11K likes, 137 comments - usfigureskating on February 10, 2022: "Nathan, welcome to the gold medal club 🥇💖 @nathanwchen x #WinterOlympics".

www.instagram.com

That is... WOW. So amazing. That has me tearing up to see all of our figure skating champions congratulating Nathan that way, even the original GOAT Dick Button!

 

[orbitz]

Awww, it was really nice and a bit emotional seeing and hearing Uncle Dick again. I initially didn't recognize him at all until he laughed and then I was like, "Yup, that's Uncle Dick." I hope he's doing well !
Also great seeing the other legends: Peggy, Dorothy, Dr. Albright, the Jenkins brothers, Carol Heiss.
Evan's looking fine, LOL.
(In my mind, MK was in the video congratulating Nathan too )

 

[Trillian]

If the skaters did less than their best last night, Ilia could have easily done the same. If we’re going to give Ilia the benefit of skating his best against last night’s performances than it’s also fair to think he could have replicated his Cup of Austria CS skates as well. The US decided to go with known quantities with the men who all qualified to the GPF and have had international senior success. The Olympics are always a gamble and nothing is guaranteed and that goes for Ilia as well. He could have been amazing or he could have made major mistakes. We don’t know.

Exactly. Ilia’s Cup of Austria SP score wouldn’t even have qualified for the FS, and I suspect his nationals skates would have landed him somewhere in the Grassl neighborhood score-wise. Something in between would have scored… somewhere in between. We don’t know how he would have skated, but there’s virtually no chance he was going to medal. So it’s still a choice between two guys who were both going to land off the podium.

People either see the value of having a skater like Jason Brown in the top six at the Olympics, or they don’t. We can talk in circles until the end of time and it’s not going to change anyone’s mind on that point.

I loved watching Nathan compete last night. I can’t think of a lot of OGM-winning performances where it looked like the skaters were genuinely having fun as they skated, and I’m so happy he was able to have an experience like that.

 

[barbk]

I am laughing at all those who believe that a "quadless Jason Brown" would get slaughtered in the free. Instead, he beat 15 skaters who successfully completed quads, some of whom completed three quads. Of course, he also beat a bunch of others who didn't attempt or didn't manage to land a quad.

 

[livetoskate]

Awww, it was really nice and a bit emotional seeing and hearing Uncle Dick again. I initially didn't recognize him at all until he laughed and then I was like, "Yup, that's Uncle Dick." I hope he's doing well !
Also great seeing the other legends: Peggy, Dorothy, Dr. Albright, the Jenkins brothers, Carol Heiss.
Evan's looking fine, LOL.
(In my mind, MK was in the video congratulating Nathan too )

Michelle left a nice message on Instagram congratulating him.