U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[once_upon]

One of the sad things about Tracy having c0vid, besides having c0vid, is that she won't be able to be with Jason when he gets the call.

Whether it is yes, you are on the team (doubtful at this time in my estimation) or we're sorry we are naming you as an alternate (most likely)

 

[Allskate]

Then they're ignoring every score this past Fall that happened internationally.

What do his international scores this fall have to do with placing third today? Vincent's jumps and scores should have been called based on his actual performance today. A lot of people are going to see his scores and placement as a gift even if they are well aware of his scores in other competitions. Again, I believe that they should apply the Olympic selection rules and that this will result in Vincent being sent to the Olympics, but that is a different issue from his placement today. That won't change my view of the scoring and placement today.

 

[misskarne]

Vincent is a world medalist Jason isn’t.

And Jason has never finished outside the top 10 at Worlds. Zhou's other two finishes at Worlds were 18th and 25th.

It’s not like Jason didn’t have some generous calling himself

He got gifts on two or three passes. Zhou got gifts on at least six jumping passes AND had a whole fall not called.

 

[tony]

Zhou's Lutz was a fall out, not a fall. His blades were on the ice still and his weight was not shifted to his hands.

 

[becca]

I agree that Vincent is very inconsistent and if talking worlds that would be a consideration

 

[wickedwitch]

By the way, https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2022/29546/CAT007SEG016.html

This says Zhou only got one deduction on the LP. He fell twice didn't he?

This was fixed. There's no doubt in my mind.

And just to avoid the controversy of not sending their bronze medalist.

 

[screech]

IMO Ilia's 2nd place with such a difference in scores between 2nd and 3rd/4th means that he has earned an Olympic spot (again IMO).

This, however, would mean that Jason is off the team, since Vincent being in a higher tier basically guarantees his spot. if it were just based on Nationals, it would be a close decision between the two of them. If it were between Vincent and Jason, I'd give it to Jason, since he was better in the FP, is more consistent, and has never failed to make the FP in an event... But again, Vincent is in the higher tier and essentially guaranteed a spot.

While I like Jason, Ilia won that spot. However, USFS doesn't always choose to do what makes sense...

 

[Tahuu]

By the way, https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2022/29546/CAT007SEG016.html

This says Zhou only got one deduction on the LP. He fell twice didn't he?

Vincent got no < in his FS is the biggest laughingstock of these championships.

 

[wickedwitch]

So, on a happier note... Camden!!!! I'm thrilled for him. That performance would have earned him a medal most years.

 

[SDoesNotKnow]

The team is set. Throw tomatoes at me, but the choice is not controversial.

Vincent blew it in the LP here but Jason did not skate that well either and Jason often underperforms. Skate Canada, for example.

At these championships, Vincent deserved TES that was about 25 points lower but Jason also deserved a bunch of calls and lower GOEs for a lot of those jumps with their scratchy, unclean landings, tllted positions. It wasn't just the quad and triple axel that needed to be called in the LP. He has triples that need to be called, not quads, so that does not put him in good stead.

I understand the other argument. This is the way I see it, Vincent could bomb the SP in Beijing or he could score close to a 100 or over a 100. He could bomb the LP and score around 150-160 or he could do well in the LP and score over 200 and challenge for a medal against the World's best. Jason could skate consistently and score low 90s to high 80s for the SP if he's on. Then he can skate as "consistently" as he usually does in the LP and score 150-170...which is around what Vincent's low-end scores are.

No brainer.

Why is a mid-to-low top ten or just outside top ten placement great for Jason but horrible for the U.S. Ladies at the Olympics? I understand Worlds because spots are on the line, but there are no spots to worry about for the Olympics.

 

[dawnie]

Here for the

Rolling on the floor that a certain poster's nemesis Zhou strikes again!

 

[On My Own]

Zhou's Lutz was a fall out, not a fall. His blades were on the ice still and his weight was not shifted to his hands.

I rewatched, and yes... this is the technicality I believe they'll use for justifying it...

 

[tony]

I rewatched, and yes... this is the technicality I believe they'll use for justifying it...

It doesn't need to be justified, though. It's not a fall and never was even pre-IJS. It's a fall out.

 

[SDoesNotKnow]

And Jason has never finished outside the top 10 at Worlds. Zhou's other two finishes at Worlds were 18th and 25th.

He got gifts on two or three passes. Zhou got gifts on at least six jumping passes AND had a whole fall not called.

Zhou's placements at Worlds were 14th and 25th not 18th. When he placed 14th, he wasn't that far off from your celebrated Max Aaron's 11th place finish, about 6.26 points away.

 

[carriecmu0503]

I rewatched, and yes... this is the technicality I believe they'll use for justifying it...

It is not a technicality. It is in the rules for the definition of a fall. The rules were followed as written in that situation.

 

[misskarne]

Zhou's placements at Worlds were 14th and 25th not 18th. When he placed 14th, he wasn't that far off from your celebrated Max Aaron's 11th place finish, about 6.26 points away.

That's not the flex you seem to think it is, given that at the time, Max was functionally retired and competed at that event on a week and a half's training. So Zhou got outskated by a man who was functionally retired.

 

[On My Own]

It is not a technicality. It is in the rules for the definition of a fall. The rules were followed as written in that situation.

I meant technicality in the sense that it certainly looked like a fall to me at first glance, but looking at it again and looking at the rules, what Zhou did is technically not defined as a fall. Please don't mind my choice of words too much, I find I make poor choices of language on english forums more and more nowadays.

 

[shuilee]

Ilia = Olympics; Jason = Worlds.

They'll split it just like 2014. Remember it was Jason that went to 2014 Olympics and Max Aaron going to 2014 Worlds.

 

[On My Own]

It doesn't need to be justified, though. It's not a fall and never was even pre-IJS. It's a fall out.

I feel like if you showed me that a year later, I'll again say it was a fall and be confused why it wasn't given a -1 in deduction.

And then someone will point out it's a fall out, and always has been.

Anyway, I think it'll be fun/sad to see who's going.

 

[her grace]

The U.S. really needs Malinin for junior worlds so I’d give him that and Brown Sr. Worlds.

And very for Brown, but Malinin is who I’d choose for Olympics.

That Malinina family, interfering with the results I want since 1999.

 

[vesperholly]

I'd very much like to see Liam Kapeikis at Junior Worlds. Really enjoyed his skating here.

 

[Karen-W]

The U.S. really needs Malinin for junior worlds so I’d give him that and Brown Sr. Worlds.

And very for Brown, but Malinin is who I’d choose for Olympics.

That Malinina family, interfering with the results I want since 1999.

I have to agree with you about Jr Worlds & Worlds.

 

[shuilee]

Vincent got very lucky in the SP that the judges ignored the "q" call on the 4sal. It should be a mandatory -2GOE reduction, so if they wanted to give him +5 GOE, then they should have subtracted 2 and gave him +3GoE as the highest possible. But Vincent ended up getting four +4s and one +5 for the "q" on 4sal.

If judges followed the rules, Vincent would be 4th behind Jason Brown.

 

[tony]

Vincent got very lucky in the SP that the judges ignored the "q" call on the 4sal. It should be a mandatory -2GOE reduction, so if they wanted to give him +5 GOE, then they should have subtracted 2 and gave him +3GoE as the highest possible. But Vincent ended up getting four +4s and one +5 for the "q" on 4sal.

If judges followed the rules, Vincent would be 4th behind Jason Brown.

I mean there was terrible calling all over the place and Jason and Vincent were both given the benefit of the doubt. Vincent more-so in the LP, but Jason got away with a big one in the short and with that 4S, that was not even close, to start his LP.

It's intriguing to see this thread shift from everyone putting Malinin and his past (junior) accomplishments down to suddenly trashing Zhou like he's going to be off the team. Spoiler alert: it didn't matter much what Zhou did in terms of 3rd or 4th, even though I am quite sure they did hold him up to 3rd. He's on the team anyways.

Everyone should just go back to loudly complaining about Malinin's BOW because that's the only argument that is even possible at this point.

 

[concorde]

So excited that Ilia had such an incredible skate!

Looks like there will be another Olympian in that family. Both his parents are Olympiams. I believe his grandfather (mom's side) was an Olympian in gymnastics.

 

[smarts1]

I would love to see Brown at the Olympics with Chen & Malinin, but it'll probably be the quad trio. It's a bummer, but if nothing else, I do really hope Brown is assigned worlds straight out--he looks trained & healthy, and if 2022 worlds is anything like 2018 worlds, Jason would have a legit medal shot...

It would be nice if they did that but I can't remember a single year USFS has done that for singles skating no matter how much we have asked for it.

 

[On My Own]

Oh, there's still too much time left for the announcement...

 

[carriecmu0503]

It would be nice if they did that but I can't remember a single year USFS has done that for singles skating no matter how much we have asked for it.

They did it in 2014, with Brown getting Olympics and Max Aaron being assigned Worlds. They could do the same here if they choose.

 

[smarts1]

They did it in 2014, with Brown getting Olympics and Max Aaron being assigned Worlds. They could do the same here if they choose.

Oh yes how did I forgot about that

 

[olympic]

Wow. I was sweating thru that competition. What a major event that turned into!

I am actually glad to see Nathan fall early on and pick himself up on the rest of the jumps. I think the world got to see that he can carry on after a mistake in an Olympic year. It looks like his jumps are sharper than they were in the fall - tighter and faster. It bodes well for next month. I don't mind the shirt. Really. You aren't going to miss him in a crowd!

I like Vincent. Points for throwing caution to the wind. For me, he bit off more than he could chew in the LP. I was cringing when they announced the 2d 4Z, and he could get a big score w/o doing it. I won't speak to URs because I didn't see good replays in slo-mo yet. the 4F looked good and the 4T was around 1/4. I am not as concerned about him for the Olympics, because again I think he just got a little too ambitious. He should stick to his layouts from SA / NHK / Nebelhorn and work on perfecting that. Maybe play with a 3A-Eul-3F (I've seen very good 3Z-Eul-3F from him) at the end and / or a Rippon Lutz (he's done that to good effect before).

I love Jason and I'm honestly feeling in the middle on the biggest issue before the USFSA right now. He obviously wants this because after the fall, every other element was locked down and executed perfectly. On the one hand, he has beaten competitors like Kolyada and Aliev this year and made the GPF, on the other hand, Ilia Malinin appears to be something special. IDK what to say.

I will just say one thing. Last time I recall a Jr. getting the nod, it was Polina Edmonds, and it looked good until it wasn't ...