U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[rhapsody]

Maxim has a shot, but I wouldn't call him a top contender yet. He'll need to do better than he has in the past to be able to make the team.

He scored 223 at Cranberry and 207 at US Classic. His best ever ISU score is 225.

Jason got 262 at Finlandia, and has an ISU PB of nearly 275.

I think the likeliest man to make it over Jason would be Yaroslav but I think he's coming back from injury. As long as he puts out clean programs on the Grand Prix and doesn't totally tank Nationals like in 2018, I think Jason will be sent even after finishing 4th maybe 5th if a young quadster outjumps him.

 

[sheetz]

Does anyone know what's up with Maxim? He WD from Finlandia and I haven't heard from him since. I've watched him in practice before and he works very hard, often taking some very bad falls. I do hope he isn't injured.

 

[Sylvia]

Originally posted in the From Russia with Love thread earlier this month:

So, Artur Dmitriev Jr. has registered for at least one U.S. qualifying competition (Championship Series in Alpharetta, GA in November) - as a non-U.S. citizen he is allowed to do so since he has not represented Russia since 2018 Rostelecom Cup and as long as he gets permission from USFS (like Paniot did in 2019) - pertinent USFS rulebook excerpt is here: https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1448701977026826240
I guess we'll have to wait and see if he actually shows up and competes.

Dmitriev's mother, Tatiana Druchinina, coached in New Jersey for a while, IIRC. Found an online bio:

Tatiana Druchinina-Krigor Studio

krigorstudio.com

...
Dmitriev Jr. was born in St. Petersburg in Sept. 1992 so he must have spent quite a lot of his growing up years in the USA.

For those who don't have access to the USFS Championships Series qualifying competition thread in the Kiss & Cry section, Ilia Malinin scored 89.76 (landed 4Lz hand down/step out, 4T+3T & 3A) to place 1st in the Senior Men's SP in Leesburg, VA earlier tonight AND Artur Dmitriev Jr. showed up and competed, finishing 4th of 4 - link to the SP protocols: https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2021/30107/SEGM036.html
(Replay video is available for Peacock Premium subscribers.)

 

[Marco]

Originally posted in the From Russia with Love thread earlier this month:


For those who don't have access to the USFS Championships Series qualifying competition thread in the Kiss & Cry section, Ilia Malinin scored 89.76 (landed 4Lz hand down/step out, 4T+3T & 3A) to place 1st in the Senior Men's SP in Leesburg, VA earlier tonight AND Artur Dmitriev Jr. showed up and competed, finishing 4th of 4 - link to the SP protocols: https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2021/30107/SEGM036.html
(Replay video is available for Peacock Premium subscribers.)

If Jason does not rotate his quads this season, Ilia can be a big threat.

 

[jlai]

If Jason does not rotate his quads this season, Ilia can be a big threat.

If Ilia stays healthy that is

 

[Karen-W]

So, Malinin just landed 4 quads (one had a step out on the landing, the rest were flawless) and a 3a in his FS at the Leesburg qualifier. 273.66 final score. Can't wait for his senior international debut in a couple weeks at Cup of Austria.

 

[Sylvia]

Here's a modified version of what I posted in Kiss & Cry - Ilia Malinin (Woodkid medley) - jumps: 4Lz with nice flow out, spread eagle/turn to 4T - landing not held/step, 3A with deliberate 3turns on exit, 4S nice, 4T+1Eu+3S, 3Lz+3Lo, 3Lz+3T. Good job!

He scored 184.35 in FS (110.57 TES / 73.78 PCS), 274.11 total - link to FS protocols: https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2021/30107/SEGM037.html

 

[VGThuy]

You really cannot ignore a TES like that. If he replicates it (or get something comparable within the junior rules that have one less element in the LP and no quads allowed in the SP), then watch out.

 

[Karen-W]

You really cannot ignore a TES like that. If he replicates it (or get something comparable within the junior rules that have one less element in the LP and no quads allowed in the SP), then watch out.

Yup. I think if he can manage to replicate the 4-quad FS at Cup of Austria in a few weeks and again at the JGPF then he is setting himself up very nicely for Nationals. It will be very interesting to see what happens at Nationals but I don't think anyone not named Nathan or Vincent can beat the score Ilia put up this week (and that was with a flawed 4z in his SP).

 

[Vagabond]

Yup. I think if he can manage to replicate the 4-quad FS at Cup of Austria in a few weeks and again at the JGPF then he is setting himself up very nicely for Nationals. It will be very interesting to see what happens at Nationals but I don't think anyone not named Nathan or Vincent can beat the score Ilia put up this week (and that was with a flawed 4z in his SP).

I think it could be close between Malinin and Brown. Malinin can't touch Brown's PCS.

 

[Karen-W]

I think it could be close between Malinin and Brown. Malinin can't touch Brown's PCS.

No, he can't but his BV on the TES side is soooo much higher. I mean, cripes, he scored a 89.76 yesterday in his SP with a flip out on his 4z. He got a -2.30 GOE on that jump which, today when he landed it cleanly in the FS garnered a +2.88 GOE. That 5.18 of GOE alone puts him ahead of Jason in the SP.

I absolutely LOVE Jason's "Sinnerman" SP. It is a freakin' masterpiece and he should get all the PCS in the world for it, every darn time. But maxing out his spin and step sequence levels and getting massive GOE and all the PCS in the world isn't going to beat 2 clean quads in the SP and 4 in the FS. It just isn't. And if both of them are sitting in Group 3 come Nationals, then it's going to come down to where they place at Nationals. It's as simple as that.

Jason might be able to hit 270+ if he's perfect. Ilia just hit 274+ (looks like his final score was revised to 274.11) with a minor error on one quad in both programs. That would have been FIFTH at Worlds last March. And, I suspect that the International Committee is going to take into serious consideration the fact that Ilia was competing on the JGP this fall. He had a 4 quad FS in Linz a few weeks ago, he had another mostly clean 4 quad FS today and if he can manage to replicate those Frees again at Cup of Austria in two weeks, the JGPF and once more at Nationals, then he will be on the Olympic team. The US doesn't need him or Jason in the Team Event so that third spot really is going to a future contender.

 

[Rukia]

I don't care how many quads Malinin lands, if Jason skates clean he should beat Malinin easily. They're just not comparable to me. Malinin definitely has a super bright future ahead though. Will enjoy watching him. But for now he's still very unpolished and junior still. And that should be reflected in his scores.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't care how many quads Malinin lands, if Jason skates clean he should beat Malinin easily. They're just not comparable to me. Malinin definitely has a super bright future ahead though. Will enjoy watching him. But for now he's still very unpolished and junior still. And that should be reflected in his scores.

It is. Did you take a look at his protocols? His PCS yesterday was 37.62 - he's not being given runaway PCS by any stretch.

 

[Vagabond]

Brown's best international scores are about the same as what Malinin just earned domestically. As I said, it could be close. On the other hand, Malinin actually planned even harder content and can improve his PCS, so he has more of an upside than Brown.

 

[skatingguy]

Brown's best international scores are about the same as what Malinin just earned domestically. As I said, it could be close. On the other hand, Malinin actually planned even harder content and can improve his PCS, so he has more of an upside than Brown.

That sounds a lot like how Vincent Zhou made the 2018 Olympic team.

 

[Flowerz]

Jason might be able to hit 270+ if he's perfect. Ilia just hit 274+ (looks like his final score was revised to 274.11) with a minor error on one quad in both programs. That would have been FIFTH at Worlds last March. And, I suspect that the International Committee is going to take into serious consideration the fact that Ilia was competing on the JGP this fall. He had a 4 quad FS in Linz a few weeks ago, he had another mostly clean 4 quad FS today and if he can manage to replicate those Frees again at Cup of Austria in two weeks, the JGPF and once more at Nationals, then he will be on the Olympic team. The US doesn't need him or Jason in the Team Event so that third spot really is going to a future contender.

Jason's PB is 274+ with a double instead of a triple or a quad (aka a pop on a quad attempt).
He got 292+ at US Nationals in 2020 with a downgraded << 4T.
292+ domestically beats 274+ domestically if we're speaking of nearly cleanish programs from both.

 

[mtnskater]

Thank godddd Nathan was Nathan again in the Skate Canada short program! Now that is more like it. He skated with conviction, more speed and performance and it worked. I now officially like that short program when I wasn’t so sure about it last week.

Jason was phenomenal. Perfect skate. Didn’t put a foot wrong that I could see. Bravo!

Keegan was excellent too. Great quad and spectacular spinning. I know this is the American men’s thread but Keegan is an American man who skates for Canada. And I’m so glad he does!

 

[AYS]

That sounds a lot like how Vincent Zhou made the 2018 Olympic team.

If you're talking about Vincent in 2018 as a parallel with Malinin in general, Vincent had much more of a resume in 2018 than Malinin has now - he was defending Jr World champ and had already been competing senior domestically for a couple of years and had won the silver medal at nationals the year before (over Jason in 3rd). So, it wasn't the scenario of coming on with rapid improvement in a single season at all. Not to say it can't happen with Malinin, but that's not how it happened with Vincent.

If you're specifically talking about how Vincent made the team instead of Jason, the reason Jason didn't make the team wasn't Vincent - it was Jason giving an absolutely terrible performance at Nationals. He underrotated or completely popped half the jumps in the lp, in addition to the quad attempt being downgraded. He was beat out for the team by Adam, not Vincent (ignoring all of the rigamarole with Miner and Hochstein). So overall, I think the scenario is different.

 

[mtnskater]

U.S. men doing well on the Grand Prix!! 2 golds, one silver and a bronze after two events. Go team!

Nathan was better this week, but still not the same Nathan we are used to quite yet. Hopefully additional training time will be just what he needs to find his mojo with these programs. Of course he only had a week to regroup and then had to compete without his coach today. I may be the only one it seems but I am crazy about his free skate. I’m a huge Mozart fan and I love the last hip hop footwork…epic!! I like the juxtaposition of powerful classical music with the powerful modern hip hop piece.

Jason had a moment in the short. A performance to rewatch. Free was a struggle but mistakes from others and the short got him the silver. Yaay!

Bummed for Keegan. I wanted him on that podium. I think the music is perfectly in his wheelhouse. The Canadian plaid shirt….or Alaskan plaid shirt is even more informal than most of Nathan’s costumes

 

[Karen-W]

So, who wants to still insist that Ilia Malinin isn't very much in the hunt for that 3rd Olympic spot?

 

[jlai]

So, who wants to still insist that Ilia Malinin isn't very much in the hunt for that 3rd Olympic spot?

Ilia has a shot, but not a great shot, but things can change! He has a great shot at worlds though

 

[Karen-W]

Ilia has a shot, but not a great shot, but things can change! He has a great shot at worlds though

LOL. He has more than "a shot." In fact, it's an absolutely great shot. But, hey, if you want to tell yourself that today was a good day for Jason, you go right ahead. Just keep in mind, the Olympic selection criteria document takes into consideration scoring trends.

 

[misskarne]

Here we go. "Thanks for being the second-most consistent man over the last quad Jason, and thanks for helping make sure we were in the best possible position to have three spots for the Olympics, and thanks for consistently being one of the highest scorers, but it's the Olympic season now, so it's time to throw you on the trash heap in favour of someone who didn't even make the free skate at Worlds last year and the latest flavour of the month".

I like Ilia Malinin too. But he's a raw, unpolished Junior who is still competing Junior. This isn't even like Zhou in 2018, or Jason in 2014. Both of them were actually competing Senior internationally, on the GP - and both still had to benefit from unexpectedly poor performances by skaters ranked ahead of them at their respective Nationals, they weren't going to force it without that.

Jason has unquestionably, undoubtedly, completely inarguably been the US #2 man for the last four years. He has absolutely earned the right to be given some leeway, some credit in the bank, some favour in the argument. His body of work is superior to all bar one of the US men. He deserves more respect.

 

[Tavi]

LOL. He has more than "a shot." In fact, it's an absolutely great shot. But, hey, if you want to tell yourself that today was a good day for Jason, you go right ahead. Just keep in mind, the Olympic selection criteria document takes into consideration scoring trends.

Wow. Are you actually gloating that Jason had a bad day today?

 

[Karen-W]

Wow. Are you actually gloating that Jason had a bad day today?

No. I want him to skate clean and score up to his max potential. But, today wasn't it. And given that yesterday multiple people in this thread were very quick to point out what Jason's PB internationally and domestically were, I think it's only appropriate to remind people of the fact that the selection criteria specifically mentions scoring trends will be taken into consideration. We still have 2+ months before Nationals so Jason could absolutely turn it around but today wasn't the direction he needs to be going in.

 

[Tavi]

No. I want him to skate clean and score up to his max potential. But, today wasn't it. And given that yesterday multiple people in this thread were very quick to point out what Jason's PB internationally and domestically were, I think it's only appropriate to remind people of the fact that the selection criteria specifically mentions scoring trends will be taken into consideration. We still have 2+ months before Nationals so Jason could absolutely turn it around but today wasn't the direction he needs to be going in.

Thanks for clarifying. I absolutely agree that today was a bump in the road for Jason, and like you I hope he will turn things around.

Regarding the earlier posts, I am guessing they were made because you seemed to have forgotten how high Jason’s PBs actually are.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Ilia should be saved (if he plans to stay in the sport ). He has the jumping goods. Don't want him pushed and possibly injured. Plus, there are plenty of things to work on. This quad is so dense with talent. The next doesn't look as full (but who knows). My point is he probably wouldn't get inside the top 6 at Olys. A more polished Ilia will have a much better chance at success.

 

[VGThuy]

Ilia should be saved (if he plans to stay in the sport ). He has the jumping goods. Don't want him pushed and possibly injured. Plus, there are plenty of things to work on. This quad is so dense with talent. The next doesn't look as full (but who knows). My point is he probably wouldn't get inside the top 6 at Olys. A more polished Ilia will have a much better chance at success.

Neither would Jason if the men skate well in the LP, if we’re honest.

 

[olympic]

I don't have a problem with Ilia competing at the Junior level until the end of this season. He will have next year thru to 2026 to be a Senior to prove himself and make a US Olympic team. I really believe the top echelon of US men will retire or semi-retire after this season and there will definitely be a place for him at the top if he wants it.

I did say the same thing about Polina in 2014. There is a difference between the US women in 2014 and the men in 2022, though: The US men have a rigid hierarchy with Nathan, Vincent and Jason firmly in place. The US women were all over the place in the last decade (still kind or are LOL), so taking a chance on a junior over Mirai in 2014 was not a crazy decision, because Mirai had been so up and down after Vancouver - Four years of uneven results. The 3 US men just roll out high marks and results competition after competition and it would be hard to imagine the USFSA going w/ Ilia for Beijing.

BTW. I can't find videos of SC on Youtube. The competition is over. What gives?

 

[sheetz]

It seems counterintuitive to me to want to "save" Ilia until 2026, when he could be potentially a top medal contender heading into those games with no prior Olympic experience. Worlds and 4CC experience are no substitute for the Olympics. Just ask Nathan, who had been to both and actually won 4CC over most of the top contenders only to then discover that the Olympics were just a whole other kettle of fish. If Ilia is to have a first Olympic experience wouldn't be better for it to be before intense pressure and expectations are heaped upon him?

Naturally, Ilia still has to earn his spot by performing well in his upcoming events, and that will be a difficult task. But it seems some people don't even want to give him the chance.