Because it was either him or Ross Miner, who had didn’t have future potential or body of work in his favor.
U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates
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Because it was either him or Ross Miner, who had didn’t have future potential or body of work in his favor.
jlai
Question everything
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THat logic is as good as saying, "let's skip over promoting the older guy who has done well for us the last 8 years; let's promote the younger and more promising fellow because that person did great in this one internal project and can use the experience in 4 years time.'
If this were employment and not sports, this would be cause for employment discrimination claims.
If this were employment and not sports, this would be cause for employment discrimination claims.
misskarne
Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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If Nathan chooses not to go, frankly the USFS should be on their knees begging Jason to go. You need at least one reliable stalwart on the team, someone you can trust to be consistently good. A team of Vincent/Ilia/Camden gives me the absolute yips.When asked about his plans for "what's next," Nathan mentioned SOI and returning to school in the fall. No mention of Worlds, fwiw.
So sweet to see him with his mom. He put his medal around her neck.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Frankly, the US men who've been dragging up the rear internationally the past quad need to either step up or accept that there will only be 2 spots next year and stop relying on Nathan, Jason (and Vincent in 2019) to get them the third spot. If Vincent/Ilia/Camden can't manage it between them, I seriously can't see us having more than two guys next season who will deserve a Worlds assignment.
I'm more annoyed at Karen Chen for wanting to go to Worlds at this point (given that she's got a sprained ankle) than I am with either Nathan or Jason wanting to pass and putting the onus on Vincent/Ilia/Camden to keep 3 spots next season, but that's a discussion for the US Women's thread.
Kudos for Nathan and Jason for having a dream Olympics and skating almost as good as they could have. I was watching NBC and the hype/expectation on Nathan was insane. Glad he held up against the Japanese men who also skated brilliantly. Happy for him. If anything, I was almost more proud for Jason for placing as high as he could/did without a quad in either program and beating so many quadsters. What an in-your-face for all those attackers. Can't exactly count him out for a solid placement even if not for a podium finish at major international comps. Sad for Vincent for missing out on the IE but at least he competed at the TE and won a medal (physical token outstanding).
As for Worlds, I feel all 3 might want to skip for themselves. They have all been through so much. Perhaps Vincent, feeling like he has unfinished business this season, might go. They should count themselves lucky if one of the 3 PLUS Ilia get to go. I actually wouldn't be surprised if all 3 or at least 2 of them pass on the entire next season as well, or retire altogether. And if whoever goes miss retaining the 3rd spot at Worlds, so be it. If the US has to count on Camden to fight for a world spot, that 3rd spot next season really isn't quite meaningful.
As for Worlds, I feel all 3 might want to skip for themselves. They have all been through so much. Perhaps Vincent, feeling like he has unfinished business this season, might go. They should count themselves lucky if one of the 3 PLUS Ilia get to go. I actually wouldn't be surprised if all 3 or at least 2 of them pass on the entire next season as well, or retire altogether. And if whoever goes miss retaining the 3rd spot at Worlds, so be it. If the US has to count on Camden to fight for a world spot, that 3rd spot next season really isn't quite meaningful.
olympic
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Well, as it stands, the USFSA named Nathan, Ilia and Vincent to Worlds, so despite Nathan's comments about SOI, I have to believe that he goes to Worlds in March unless he specifically states he will not go.
I also believe Vincent really wants to go (unless he has explicitly stated otherwise somewhere). He needs to put an exclamation point on the season, and a team medal is fine but he really must want more of a finale to 2022. He is otherwise healthy, so why not?
I am not worried about Ilia getting minimums. I mean really.
If anything, the most likely NOT to go is Nathan, but Vincent, Ilia and Jason (if no Nathan) are likely to go. The goal of the USFSA must be 1) give Ilia experience, and 2) preserve 3 spots for 2023 (I honestly wish there was a different system. The 13 system is stupid)
I also believe Vincent really wants to go (unless he has explicitly stated otherwise somewhere). He needs to put an exclamation point on the season, and a team medal is fine but he really must want more of a finale to 2022. He is otherwise healthy, so why not?
I am not worried about Ilia getting minimums. I mean really.
If anything, the most likely NOT to go is Nathan, but Vincent, Ilia and Jason (if no Nathan) are likely to go. The goal of the USFSA must be 1) give Ilia experience, and 2) preserve 3 spots for 2023 (I honestly wish there was a different system. The 13 system is stupid)
mtnskater
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Vincent said in his interview on the Today show while he was still in quarantine that he was going to Worlds. Makes sense since he was robbed of his opportunity to get an individual medal at the Olympics which was entirely possible. Ilia will be there barring disaster in the short at his challenger. Would love to see Nathan one more time but he is doing the talk show circuit this week and not training so it appears doubtful. I’m not ready to say goodbye to Nathan 
Would love to see Jason go if Nathan doesn’t. But with Vincent and Ilia the U.S. would still have a strong team no matter who the third person is.
Would love to see Jason go if Nathan doesn’t. But with Vincent and Ilia the U.S. would still have a strong team no matter who the third person is.I think we should expect Ilia/Vincent/Camden. And frankly if they only get two spots it’s probably what we deserve to have. Those lower ranked guys have had years to get it together and can’t ever seem to. With Nathan and Jason likely gone next season the only two athletes who have a chance of being competitive are Ilia and Vincent. We should take our two spots and let them earn a third back. Although likelihood is between Vincent and Ilia we should be able to maintain three with a weak worlds field.
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
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Nathan's appearance on CBS' morning show today: https://twitter.com/CBSMornings/status/1496493766458314756
Moto Guzzi
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Ever since it was announced that Vincent tested positive, a friend apparently has been convinced that it was due to some nefarious plot on the part of the Russians and Chinese. She emailed to demand how he could have possibly been exposed. I replied that the variation was very contagious and other athletes and staff also tested positive. Nearly every day she has emailed me to discuss the Olympics and always ends with "And I still want to know how Vincent got Covid."
Now she's learned that he wasn't allowed to attend the closing ceremony. Her comment: "This info about Vincent leads me to believe there is something foul going on there and I am annoyed that USFS or his coaches aren’t doing something or saying something. I’m thinking the scandal rests with the IOC and/or ROC."
I am sure USFS or even Vincent had rapid test kits with them to double check his positive result.Ever since it was announced that Vincent tested positive, a friend apparently has been convinced that it was due to some nefarious plot on the part of the Russians and Chinese. She emailed to demand how he could have possibly been exposed. I replied that the variation was very contagious and other athletes and staff also tested positive. Nearly every day she has emailed me to discuss the Olympics and always ends with "And I still want to know how Vincent got Covid."
Now she's learned that he wasn't allowed to attend the closing ceremony. Her comment: "This info about Vincent leads me to believe there is something foul going on there and I am annoyed that USFS or his coaches aren’t doing something or saying something. I’m thinking the scandal rests with the IOC and/or ROC."
sk9tingfan
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Think we should teach Tony Dokoupil about the difference between jumps and spins (there have been other commentators who also don't know the difference)? Also calls a competition as a "show"
! I really cringed at that one.At the time he first tested positive, there were articles saying that they were doing another test to confirm it. I was hoping that the first one was a false positive, but it wasn't.
Not sure what motivation Vincent has for moving beyond this season. He has been to 2 Olympics, a world medal and an Olympic team medal. He worked so hard yet the URs are still not under control. I don't feel he can improve much more. Happy to be proven wrong, but he always seemed so level-headed that I feel he would view this season as a good opportunity to leave skating on a high note and re-focus on his studies and the rest of his life.
And Jason can't win ever. Some people will want him to go to Worlds to give a good solid base to the magic 13 and it will be 'ungrateful' if he doesn't go. Some others will say he has no medal prospects and isn't giving others an opportunity, blah blah blah.
misskarne
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I am surprised that people are so fixed that Jason will retire. He has mentioned in interviews prior to the Olympics that he felt like he could continue another couple of years, that he has more artistic vision to share with us. Yes, after the Olympics he has said he hasn't decided, but even that is hopeful.
Obviously, I have an ulterior and rather selfish motive for wanting him to continue at least one more year, but that motive didn't make up the quotes.
I believe Vincent mentioned before the Olympics that he had changed his mind and was continuing also? Though so much has happened since that I might be misremembering on that score.
Obviously, I have an ulterior and rather selfish motive for wanting him to continue at least one more year, but that motive didn't make up the quotes.
I believe Vincent mentioned before the Olympics that he had changed his mind and was continuing also? Though so much has happened since that I might be misremembering on that score.
It’s actually a lot of the same people saying both of these things.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Just to make it clear, I don't care whether Jason retires or continues another few years. I do think, if he doesn't want to go to Worlds this year, his arm shouldn't be twisted by the USFS or anyone else to do so. The men we send will either earn or not earn 3 spots. If it comes to pass that we only have two spots next year and Jason stays in, he can fight it out with the rest of the US men for one of those spots.
I admit to not following any of the guys all that closely but I don't think Vincent's really given any indication what his plans are for next season other than returning to Brown. Someone pointed out in one of the Olympics KnC threads that Providence is only about 35-40 minutes or so by car from Norwood, so it's possible he could continue to train while taking classes. I, for one, would be a big supporter of that, especially if he changed coaches to the Letovs because I think he's gone as far as he's going to go with Tom Z.
Vincent initially planned to train in the Boston area during his first semester but that didn't work out. He mentioned logistical challenges....time, travel, scheduling. Granted, SCOB was not in its current location, but I don't know if he would want to attempt that arrangement again.
Vincent found it difficult to go to Brown and train for Worlds and the Olympics at the same time. Add to that the fact that he must be absolutely exhausted after everything he has been through this season. I can't see him trying to go to Brown and competing next season even if he could use the rink at Brown for much of his training and did not have to spend over an hour or two every day driving to training. He's also at an age where, if he delays school more, he soon will be older than most of the undergraduates, and he may actually want to spend quality time with classmates. For his own sake, I hope he has two great skates at Worlds next month and can find happiness with that and with moving on with an academic life. I suspect that Vincent, Nathan, and Karen all will go back to school next year and not skate competitively.
I could see Jason competing next season while skipping Worlds next month. He could be too exhausted to compete next month but still have an interest in continuing to skate competitively.
I could see Jason competing next season while skipping Worlds next month. He could be too exhausted to compete next month but still have an interest in continuing to skate competitively.
I know there are a lot of people who commute between Providence and Boston (or the surrounding towns), but as someone who attended college in Providence myself… I truly can’t fathom that arrangement working out for a full-time student. I don’t care where the new SCOB facility is. Hard pass. I would never.
bladesofgorey
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Same! after I was in college in Providence I still lived there, and some years later would travel to Boston 2-3 times a week to train with an athletics team and I found that exhausting even though I was working as a contractor and could arrange my own hours. Boston might only be about an hour from Providence but unless you are taking the train directly there it's a stressful hour. As a student who needs to also study and sleep? Never.
Edited to add: back when I lived there there were a number of skating rinks in the greater Providence area that had empty cheap ice time easily accessible directly by bus. This is no longer the case- the rinks have all either closed or turned into hockey-only facilities and there is a dearth of available freestyle sessions in the area even if Vincent were to try and find ice closer. Brown would be his only option if they allowed special arrangements for him but as far as I know they offer very limited ice if any now for their freestyle club students and don't allow freestyle skating on public sessions there anymore.
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livetoskate
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It also sounded like the people in charge of the rink at Brown were not helpful to Vincent & didn't care about his need to practice. People griped about him making holes in the ice & hockey was the priority. My sister went to Brown & going into Boston was a big trek that typical students only made once a month. Personally, I think Vincent will go to Worlds excited to show what he's capable of & maybe even have a good shot of medaling or winning, if other skaters like Nathan & Yuzuru skip it.
ITA. I knew a Brown grad student who tried living in Boston and commuting to Brown and that was difficult. Going in the opposite direction, as an undergrad, and with training and competing? No way. I think the only way Vincent could even try to make it work would be if he could use Brown's rink when there wasn't hockey practice and games - which doesn't sound possible - and try to do remote coaching like Nathan did. And even that would be extremely difficult and take a huge toll on Vincent. He has talked about the challenges he has had in the past, and it seems like it would be a very bad idea to try to go back and do both school and competitive skating. I really hope he has a good Worlds next month and can come to terms with what happened this year and move on with a good college experience.
livetoskate
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This reminds me of former competitive skater Kevin Shum, who went to MIT, trained around Boston, & still had a lot of stress trying to combine skating with college life. Here's his essay from his website. Looks like he has a successful career now in Seattle.
BittyBug
Childless Cat Lady
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People, Norwood is not Boston, even if the the skating club of Boston is in Norwood. It’s 35 minutes from College Hill to Norwood. Not saying that’s feasible for daily training with a full academic load, just standing up for geography.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Well, and it might be a lot more doable to choose to live somewhere that splits the difference between the two locations rather than in Providence itself.
flyingsit
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Vincent also didn’t research his training options before he went to Brown, he just assumes he’d be able to figure it out.
LeafOnTheWind
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I kind of got that impression from a lot of skaters talking about going to college. I didn't read a lot of interviews so I could be completely off base but Nathan seemed like the only one that really thought about it and planned out all the details before making his choices.
sk9tingfan
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While I tend to agree, Yale probably told him that he had to return or had to reapply to finish his degree. Unlike Vincent's college choice, Brown, Yale's absence is not open-ended.
LeafOnTheWind
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I was referring to the initial college enrollment plans not about returning this year.
