U.S. Men 2021-22 season news & updates

[Karen-W]

Jason at the moment looks like he has a high chance of making it at the moment. If Jason does make the GP Final, do you think it would actually be good of him to go? He made the GP Final four years ago (With both Javi and Yuzu having issues during the GP season), and for athletes who don't consistently make the GP Final, I feel like it's often hard for them to adjust to having that extra competition (which I think is also smart that the USFS tries to send out their top athletes that week to a different competition if they miss the GP Final, so that they learn to adjust to having that extra competition.) Jason had a poor showing four years ago, and that led to him eventually not making the team.

If Jason makes the GPF then he will go, no doubt about it. That's prize money that you simply don't pass up in favor of what? Staying home and training for Nats? I think with the selection criteria being different than it was 4 years ago, Jason is in a much stronger position this year heading into Nats. Jimmy Ma will need to better his SB by nearly 40 points at Warsaw Cup in order to jump into Group 3, and Ilia Malinin will need to improve upon his JGP Austria score at the JGPF in order to move in Group 3 also. Jason could, if he goes clean at both IdF and the GPF, be moved into Group 2, and then it won't really matter what any other guy does at Nats unless he finishes 6th or lower (and the chances of that happening are very low).

 

[kwanfan1818]

That's prize money that you simply don't pass up in favor of what?

With the coaches travel expenses to and from Japan and lost lesson fees, I'm not sure even 4th, at $6000, is more than break-even. You have to finish on the podium to win 12K, 18K, or 25K.

I'm sure if he earns a spot he will go to compete and to visit Japan.

 

[Frau Muller]

Vincent is at CS Warsaw Cup this week, where he should clobber the competition to shush up the naysayers! Up against Grassl, Sota, Bychenko, Gogolev, Fentz...

 

[Frau Muller]

Jason should medal at GP France. Toughest competition from Yuma, Keegan, Deniss “Gary Beacom Jr”, various French & Russians. Unknown Gogolev? Jason a solid bronze, maybe silver? It will be a nail biter. Hope it goes well for Jason.

 

[olympic]

Vincent is at CS Warsaw Cup this week, where he should clobber the competition to shush up the naysayers! Up against Grassl, Sota, Bychenko, Gogolev, Fentz...

Nope. Actually read the recent post from @missing, who reported that Tom Z announced Vincent's WD - smart move.

 

[Frau Muller]

Nope. Actually read the recent post from @missing, who reported that Tom Z announced Vincent's WD - smart move.

Zhou is still listed but they’re probably behind on updates. So the path is cleared for someone else to win CS Warsaw.

 

[Flowerz]

Haha. Jason has an opportunity to qualify for the GP Final if he wins at least the silver at IdF in Grenoble next week.

If he wins at least bronze

and Semenenko gets bronze or less at Rostelecom, he's qualified.

Even if Semenenko is second, it would be down to combined scores, still a chance.

If Semenenko gets gold and Kolyada bronze then it's between Jason's and Kolyada's scores, less of a chance.

If Yuzuru competes at Rostelecom and the podium is Yuzuru, Kolyada (or the other way) and whomever it would be in 3rd then Jason would qualify with only a bronze at IdF.

So even with bronze it's not over for him and GPF.

If my calculations are correct and assuming Kagyiama is at least 3rd (extremely likely).

 

[Impromptu]

Although it looks like the USFSA and/or Team Brown is hedging their bets and assigned him to Golden Spin (Plan B?).

 

[Flowerz]

Although it looks like the USFSA and/or Team Brown is hedging their bets and assigned him to Golden Spin (Plan B?).

In 2019 he did the same. It's in case he doesn't make it. I remember Dimitri Aliev was on the Golden Spin list as well in 2019 and he qualified for GPF that year and went there instead. Typical plan B.

 

[Stephanie]

Maxim Naumov is out of Cup of Russia (per the ISU and USFS sites)

 

[Karen-W]

Interesting who was assigned and who wasn't... no Paniot and no Naumov. Given that we haven't seen Naumov assigned to any Challengers this month and he didn't get the Golden Spin assignment, it makes me worry he won't actually make it to Rostelecom next week.

Good for Sjoberg and MA, though!

 

[Karen-W]

Maxim Naumov is out of Cup of Russia (per the ISU and USFS sites)

I was worried about this when I saw the Golden Spin assignments - see post above.

 

[Tahuu]

Zayak Rule, Zagitova Rule, Zhou Rule?

A fascinating read of an in-depth analysis of Vincent’s qs.

sportlandia

Se saprai confrontarti con Trionfo e Rovina e trattare allo stesso modo questi due impostori

sportlandiamartina.wordpress.com

 

[toddlj]

I tried to get through this whole tedious article and couldn't make it. The argument would appear to be that we should make all "q" jumps into ">" jumps because "q" is being used unfairly?

If we feel "q" is being used unfairly, perhaps it should just be removed as an option. Jumps subtly underrotated should just be given full credit and let the judges sort it out with the GOE. This of course would totally benefit Vincent, but I have a feeling that wouldn't be what this writer is going for.

 

[clairecloutier]

Maxim Naumov is out of Cup of Russia (per the ISU and USFS sites)

I think I saw Max skipping rope the other night while watching the Norwood qualifying competition ... hopefully he is decently on the road to recovery from whatever injury happened this season.

Such a shame that he's had to miss his fall events after such a strong early showing at Cranberry Cup (and some good moments at U.S. Classic too).

 

[Tavi]

I tried to get through this whole tedious article and couldn't make it. The argument would appear to be that we should make all "q" jumps into ">" jumps because "q" is being used unfairly?

If we feel "q" is being used unfairly, perhaps it should just be removed as an option. Jumps subtly underrotated should just be given full credit and let the judges sort it out with the GOE. This of course would totally benefit Vincent, but I have a feeling that wouldn't be what this writer is going for.

The writer is apparently arguing that Vincent is being unfairly benefited by the use of “q.” The writer argues that it’s applied more often to Vincent than others, and is incredulous that he, far more than anyone else, apparently has a talent for landing jumps right on the quarter. The writer obviously believes it benefits Vincent, who has been < jumps since his junior days, and suggests it was put in place to help him (because while a Q gives full BV you get negative GOE). So the writer, comparing the “q” rule with the “Zagitova” rule that now limits the second half jump bonus to 3 jumps, sarcastically proposes that if they’re putting a rule in place to benefit him, they should name it after him.

Edited to reach a different conclusion after reading more carefully. Sorry, guys.

 

[skateboy]

Zayak Rule, Zagitova Rule, Zhou Rule?

A fascinating read of an in-depth analysis of Vincent’s qs.

sportlandia

Se saprai confrontarti con Trionfo e Rovina e trattare allo stesso modo questi due impostori

sportlandiamartina.wordpress.com

The Z Rules.

 

[sundayspirals]

The writer is arguing that Vincent is being unfairly penalized by the use of “q.” The writer argues that it’s applied more often to Vincent than others, and is incredulous that he, far more than anyone else, apparently has a talent for landing jumps right on the quarter. The writer obviously believes it’s unfair to Vincent, and suggests it was put in place to hold back his scores (because while a Q gives full BV you get negative GOE). So the writer, comparing the “q” rule with the “Zagitova” rule that now limits the second half jump bonus to 3 jumps, sarcastically proposes that if they’re putting a rule in place to hold back his scores, they should at least name it after him.

It apparently hasn’t occurred to the writer that Vincent, who has been under rotating multiple jumps since his junior days, may actually be benefiting from the rule, since it allows for the tech panel not to ding him with the full < and reduction in BV he might have otherwise received.

I actually think the writer agrees and tries to argue that Vincent benefits unfairly from the q rule but she fails in getting her point across. I admire the work she's put into this though with all the data etc.

 

[sheetz]

Yes, it appears the writer is speaking ironically about Vincent's "incredible ability" to land on the quarter. Later on she argues that if Vincent had been judged "correctly" his scores and placements would be much lower.

 

[Tavi]

@sheetz, @sundayspirals, you are right. Apparently the unfair advantage is that he’s benefiting from the rule. The hazards of skimming during lunch! my post will be edited accordingly.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

But if a Q doesn't hurt the score, why even have it? So it just makes a skater's detailed score sheet look like a disaster?

 

[million$momma]

But if a Q doesn't hurt the score, why even have it? So it just makes a skater's detailed score sheet look like a disaster?

Doesn't it limit the GOE that can be given to the jump though?

 

[Sylvia]

For those interested, I've started a new poll/discussion thread in the Trash Can (since 'q' doesn't just affect Vincent and the inconsistencies in the calling have been noted in the GP play-by-play threads): Should the 'q' call for jumps be eliminated?

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Doesn't it limit the GOE that can be given to the jump though?

I think it does, or affects it indirectly, but I hope someone can clarify exactly.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

But if a Q doesn't hurt the score, why even have it? So it just makes a skater's detailed score sheet look like a disaster?

Because those administering the IJS "code of points" are trying to microclassify every iota of components and expect that human judges and specialists will be able to make decisions about them in, if not real time, very close to it. That amount of statistical overkill is, from the point of view of someone who works with data for a career, absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Tavi]

Doesn't it limit the GOE that can be given to the jump though?

Communication 2334 says “the jump will receive full base value and the judges will reduce GOE” but no amount is specified. There may be something more specific elsewhere.

 

[mtnskater]

Personally I think a quarter is splitting hairs and I’d be in favor of getting rid of the q. COP has already killed much of what I used to love in skating (individuality and creativity). This nitpicky crap that generally can’t be seen by the public and must be viewed on super slow-mo in many instances is not beneficial to the sport.

Also I never even considered this rule was put in place to benefit Vincent. I honestly thought it was brought about because of the women and no one in particular.

 

[Tavi]

Personally I think a quarter is splitting hairs and I’d be in favor of getting rid of the q. COP has already killed much of what I used to love in skating (individuality and creativity). This nitpicky crap that generally can’t be seen by the public and must be viewed on super slow-mo in many instances is not beneficial to the sport.

Also I never even considered this rule was put in place to benefit Vincent. I honestly thought it was brought about because of the women and no one in particular.

I’m sure it probably wasn’t put into place to benefit anyone in particular. It will be interesting to see if stays after this season.

 

[VGThuy]

Wow, what a hit piece on Vincent. It really is the Olympic season. People forget that without the q, there may not be any call. Look at 2019 Worlds and other competitions where his rotations were tighter. So people are going out of their way to undermine Vincent. Let the politicking again.

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

Wow, what a hit piece on Vincent. It really is the Olympic season. People forget that without the q, there may not be any call. Look at 2019 Worlds and other competitions where his rotations were tighter. So people are going out of their way to undermine Vincent. Let the politicking again.

I was getting that feeling myself reading the article. Apparently Vincent is now a "threat". Let the hellfire begin. Welcome to the big leagues, kid.