The Unbeatables (?)

Fairuza

Well-Known Member
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282
To hand out the medals to those ‘unbeatable ‘ before the competition even starts. Because what if they were accidentally beaten? Then it would be too late to crown them unbeatable.
Do these skaters get awarded with any medals on the result of discussing who those “unbeatables” are?
 

hanca

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8,746
Do these skaters get awarded with any medals on the result of discussing who those “unbeatables” are?
I don’t know, I didn’t start the thread. I guess it is to let the judges know who is the most deserving m so that they know how to mark! I mean, I can they let a skater lose if the skater is unbeatable.
 

Fairuza

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282
I don’t know, I didn’t start the thread. I guess it is to let the judges know who is the most deserving m so that they know how to mark! I mean, I can they let a skater lose if the skater is unbeatable.
Ah, ok. Why don’t we just save on money and time and nerves and send their medals over by post then?
 

Bonjour Sherry

Active Member
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79
As someone else noted, it's funny that the OP's favorites include Hanyu and Tarasova/Morozov, yet Nathan Chen and James/Cipres are deemed 'unbeatable'. Both are questionable choices at best.

Regarding the men, I think Yuzu's programs this year are brilliant and the best yet, and he'll probably be unbeatable if he goes clean. With that said, after what we saw at Nationals with Nathan, I believe the gap is closing. AND with that said, I have an inkling of doubt that Nathan can reproduce his great performances at Nationals -- I wonder whether he peaked there as he did last year.

Regarding pairs, J/C are way more charismatic, but T/M are probably the 'better' pair with better basics and overall skating quality. Who places higher at Worlds will probably come down to skate order (if both are clean), but Sui/Han will be unbeatable if they can get back in form.

Regarding ladies, clean Kihira is definitely unbeatable. But she rarely has skated a clean short, so if she makes mistakes in the short, she opens the door to Zagitova and both other Japanese. However, I doubt Zagitova can turn her season around at this point.. the ladies' competition is as hard to predict as the men's competition this year.

Regarding dance, no need to debate there.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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17,939
it is just ice dance. No high risk elements. Once they get past the twizzles it is only levels.
this might be the most ridiculous claim in the whole thread, and there are a lot of ridiculous claims here.

No-one is unbeatable. Even Plushenko wasn't.

As for some of your claims...Kihira was beaten less than 2 months ago and had to come from behind and rely on some whack judging to win 4CC. Nathan was beaten in the SP by Jason at IdF.

And I seem to recall a whole heap of people crowning Chen in Olympic gold, too...and look how that worked out.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
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5,416
As for some of your claims...Kihira was beaten less than 2 months ago and had to come from behind and rely on some whack judging to win 4CC.
I'm probably going to regret this question, but who do you think should have won the Ladies event at 4CC?
 

DreamSkates

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2,211
Lol. Some hanyubot is so scared that s/he seeks reassurance from other posters that a clean Yuzu will beat a clean Nathan.
Didn't Nathan win over Yuzu once? I remember Yuzu's fans in tears. Grand Prix final 2017?
 

briancoogaert

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13,380
I don’t think anyone can be unbeatable. Maybe Papadakis/Cizeron, because the marks are most subjective in ice dance. But in freeskating, anything can happen.
Well, nothing to do with subjectivity. If P&C wins, it's just because their skills are so superior to the others. Did you watch their glide and their unisson ? ;)
Anyway, if they make mistakeds, they will be beaten.

Nobody is unbeatable in this sport, especially in Figure Skating, because they all made mistkes this year (Chen, Kihira, James&Cipres).
 

hanca

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Well, nothing to do with subjectivity. If P&C wins, it's just because their skills are so superior to the others. Did you watch their glide and their unisson ? ;)
Anyway, if they make mistakeds, they will be beaten.

Nobody is unbeatable in this sport, especially in Figure Skating, because they all made mistkes this year (Chen, Kihira, James&Cipres).
If you notice, the top let’s say ten couples in ice dance has very, very close TES, so the placements are given by GOE and PCS. As neither PCS nor GOE are objectively measurable, the standings in ice dance are indeed subjective.
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,344
We having a changing of the guard right now, but the old guard has not yet been eaten by the new guard.

Javi still owns Euros. Yuzuru is still dominant and the reigning Olympic Champion despite Nathan's challenge, who is World Champion only in the absence of Yuzuru..

The reigning ladies World Champion will not defend her championship and the Olympic Champion is beatable.

The are no reigning Olympic Champions in pairs and dance right now.
 
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lauravvv

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2,517
Lol. Some hanyubot is so scared that s/he seeks reassurance from other posters that a clean Yuzu will beat a clean Nathan.
No need to call people (I really don't know whether your comment was about me, or someone else) Hanyubots for saying things that are supported by evidence, like PCS and GOE given to Hanyu for cleanish skates and clean elements. It's just being realistic.

I personally have never been anyone's "bot" or uber - I don't really understand that kind of blind fanatism.

Didn't Nathan win over Yuzu once? I remember Yuzu's fans in tears. Grand Prix final 2017?
Yes, he did. But Yuzuru was not clean or even almost clean then. If you noticed, the OP was talking about clean skates. From what I remember, Nathan was not completely clean in that case either, but he was doing 5 quads against Yuzuru's 3 which most likely won't be happening this season. Besides, as we know, the scoring has changed since then, and it favors Yuzuru even more than before.
 

AxelAnnie

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11,175
I do not think there is a single one of them who is unbeatable. I think Sui/Han can challenge any and all. And Chock / Bates......P/C are going to have to bring their A. game.

They are just all so close, even all skating their best.
It will be interesting.
 

snoopy

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11,407
Oh good lord people.

Worded another way, who are the favorites to win if everyone skates cleanly?
 

sharsk8s

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434
I do not think there is a single one of them who is unbeatable. I think Sui/Han can challenge any and all. And Chock / Bates......P/C are going to have to bring their A. game.

They are just all so close, even all skating their best.
It will be interesting.
Not saying that p/c can get away with an awful performance and still be on top but by looking at the current scores https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_scores_in_figure_skating#Ice_dance_4 their total score leaves them 10 points worth of possible errors where they can still get away with the gold, not to mention guillaume has been having back problems which seem to still be acting out and they haven't gotten perfect levels in the rhythm dance yet which leaves around 5 more possible points on the table (although it is probably unlikely to think they will get perfect levels you never know). I think c/b are definitely in contention for the silver but for someone other than p/c to take gold they will need to have two really rough performances and someone else will need to really step up. I think they are truly the only unbeatable team this season (of course this is considering they have decent skates which they tend to have) and I agree with what others said that a top shape sui/han and yuzuru are likely unbeatable too but I think that will be more for next season than this one because both are coming off injuries right now.
 

giselle23

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Rika and Nathan are unbeatable if they land all of their jumps. Rika has shown also that she can overcome an imperfect short program with her tech in the long. But in singles skating anything can happen, so I wouldn’t call either unbeatable without qualification.
 

giselle23

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Were you watching last year? Medvedeva was considered unbeatable after not losing for three years, yet she was beaten by Zagitova despite skating clean at the Olympics. Zagitova went to worlds being considered unbeatable because she won all competitions that year and was considered consistent, yet she was beaten at the worlds. There is no unbeatable in this sport.
By the time the Olympics rolled around, I considered Zagitova unbeatable. Her PCS had inflated so much that it was the same as Med’s and her higher tech meant she would always beat Med if both skated clean. Of course, at World’s we learned she didn’t always skate clean.
 

sharsk8s

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434
Rika and Nathan are unbeatable if they land all of their jumps. Rika has shown also that she can overcome an imperfect short program with her tech in the long. But in singles skating anything can happen, so I wouldn’t call either unbeatable without qualification.
I don't think Nathan is unbeatable if he skates clean and yuzu does too. Especially now that nathan is doing 4 quads he doesn't have as much of a technical advantage.
 

aftershocks

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15,304
:lol:
It's never over till it's over. Just ask H/D. Figure skating is never a sure thing.

P/C might not have been beaten at 2018 Olympics, if not for Gaby's sp costume malfunction.

Nathan Chen beat himself in the sp at 2018 Olympics, and he beat every one of his competitors in the fp at 2018 Olympics. Nathan's quad abilities are in part why rules changes and scoring changes were quickly instituted by the ISU.

Whether or not skaters are 'beatable' is usually not at the top of the list of confounding questions to be asked. :p

Ask anyone though who is honest and knowledgeable about pairs, and they would have to admit that J/C's Wicked 'winning' Game is way more than just about their hotness and their costumes. :COP:
 
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giselle23

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1,511
I don't think Nathan is unbeatable if he skates clean and yuzu does too. Especially now that nathan is doing 4 quads he doesn't have as much of a technical advantage.
We can agree to disagree. Hanyu has maybe a four point advantage in PCS. That won’t overcome the technical advantage. The GOE advantage is unclear. It would be close but I think Nathan would win.
 

lauravvv

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giselle23 - I agree with you at least partially. But the fact still stands that Hanyu's FS record in the old scoring "system" attained with 4 quads remained unbeaten despite Chen executing practically clean FS performances with 6 quads at last year's Olympics and Worlds. Of course, Chen had a couple of imperfect landings in those skates. If those had been better, he would have likely beaten Hanyu's record just by a bit. And PCS difference between them is likely to be smaller now. But here we are talking about a 3 quads program vs. a 4 quads program.
 

arakwafan2006

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2,885
You shit the bed on this one.

Yuzu is unbeatable at his best
Pap/Ciz... that’s true.
Ladies- Rika, beatable
Pairs- loads of uncertainty.
 

sharsk8s

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434
Okay so I just watched Yuzuru's worlds 2017 LP and that is yuzu at his best. When he skates like that he is without a doubt unbeatable.
 

TallyT

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Why jinx people? Nathan was proclaimed by the US, and Shoma by many others, to have the Olympics in the bag, an absolute lock, unbeatable, before this time last year, we all know how that went down....

Thing is, no one knows how Yuzuru at the top of his game right now can perform. People can guess, but it is prure guesswork. He's always slow to start (this is the first year he ever won both his GPs) and then the last two years he's then had to drop out with injury. But that didn't stop him taking out the Olys from all the young fit pretenders while still injured, in pain, with three weeks jumps practice and under the sort of pressure none of the others could even dream of... not even nearly at the top of his game.

It could have stopped him, though. One fall would have done it, and his ankle was definitely not guaranteeing he wouldn't. Same could happen again. Same could never happen, or happen to any of the rest.

But the simple fact is that now, given the worst pressure is off - Yuzu has nothing to prove, he has the achievement that time is going to make more and more impossible to match - - if he is fit... the only people who really know what he may or may not do are at TCC and not talking.
 

tripleflutz

Banned Member
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84
This thread is baffling.

James & Cipres are really far from unbeatable. Sui & Han skating cleanly would beat them for certain, and the likelihood is fairly good a totally clean Tarasova & Morozov would to. And it is hard to see such an inconsistent team having a 3rd competition in a row skating perfectly anyway. I would agree they are the slight favorites now as they have the momentum and Sui & Han looked awful at 4CCs and still rusty, but they are for sure beatable.

Chan is not unbeatable, especialy in Japan. In Japan a clean Hanyu would win for sure, no matter how well Chan skates. Uno would have a better chance against Chan depending how both skate, being in Japan too.

Kihari is much closer to unbeatable than either of those, but she can still beat herself by messing up the short program like she has done most of the year. Unlike James & Cipres or Chan she completely controls her own destiny atleast, she skates even close to clean or keeps the mistakes under 3 she wins no matter how the Russians skate.

The only one of those who is unbeatable is Papadakis & Cizeron. They would have to fall atleast 3 times over the 2 dances to even possibly drop to a silver medal.
 

tripleflutz

Banned Member
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84
We can agree to disagree. Hanyu has maybe a four point advantage in PCS. That won’t overcome the technical advantage. The GOE advantage is unclear. It would be close but I think Nathan would win.
How much higher is the exact base value? Since he is only doing 1 more quad now it probably isnt that big. Unless it is more than say 8 or 10 points Hanyu could easily make that up on combined GOE and PCS, remember he easily beats Chen on GOE and not just PCS.

And more importantly remember too worlds are in Japan. Chen might be able to beat Hanyu with both skating clean somewhere else, not sure, but it would never happen in Japan. I am pretty sure of that. Do not downplay home country advantage, unless you have never heard of Sotnikova.
 

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