The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

Cleo1782 said:
Chen's 3a is a disaster in competition. although I hear he hits great ones in practice. He should never attempt a 4a. Leave that to Hanyu.
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Nathan often has landed the 3A surprisingly well in competition when we may not be expecting him to. So yes, it hasn't been a consistent jump for Nathan, but it's not as if he can't do it well. That whole question of the jumps that give skaters the hee-bee jee-bees is so interesting. I enjoy hearing skaters talk about the jumps they are partial to and the ones they have nightmares about or just dislike for one reason or another. ;) Sometimes, difficulty in landing certain jumps could be simply due to wrong chatter in one's head or over-thinking, or obviously technical miscues on take-off.

Which was your least favorite jump @Cleo1782? Which was your best jump?

I suppose Hanyu keeps the 4A in front of himself as his next challenge perhaps. I tend to believe a young-gun will be the first to land 4A some years down the road, although Hanyu obviously possesses singular determination. There are of course a number of skaters practicing 4A on harness who might be close to surprising the skating community. Had he been slightly younger and stayed in the competitive mix, Max Aaron seemingly had 4A in his crosshairs. :)
 
aftershocks said:
Nathan often has landed the 3A surprisingly well in competition when we may not be expecting him to. So yes, it hasn't been a consistent jump for Nathan, but it's not as if he can't do it well. That whole question of the jumps that give skaters the hee-bee jee-bees is so interesting. I enjoy hearing skaters talk about the jumps they are partial to and the ones they have nightmares about or just dislike for one reason or another. ;) Sometimes, difficulty in landing certain jumps could be simply due to wrong chatter in one's head or over-thinking, or obviously technical miscues on take-off.

Which was your least favorite jump @Cleo1782? Which was your best jump?

I suppose Hanyu keeps the 4A in front of himself as his next challenge perhaps. I tend to believe a young-gun will be the first to land 4A some years down the road, although Hanyu obviously possesses singular determination. There are of course a number of skaters practicing 4A on harness who might be close to surprising the skating community. Had he been slightly younger and stayed in the competitive mix, Max Aaron seemingly had 4A in his crosshairs. :)
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I loved myself some edge jumps. 2a was my fave...I would do them one after another. Probably why I am so critical of axel technique. Hated the lutz. Could do it but always felt so much pressure to be on the right edge. I have seen some great video of Nathan landing the 3a. It just generally looks so messy in competition.
 
Cleo1782 said:
I loved myself some edge jumps. 2a was my fave...I would do them one after another. Probably why I am so critical of axel technique. Hated the lutz. Could do it but always felt so much pressure to be on the right edge. I have seen some great video of Nathan landing the 3a. It just generally looks so messy in competition.
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:) Ah, double axels are so pretty when landed well back-to-back in a lovely program. I tend to have trouble telling the flip and the toe-loop apart because I forget the turning direction the skater goes into for each jump. :lol: The lutz seems like it can be a nightmare staying on the right edge. Caroline Zhang had a lot of trouble with her unaccountable mule kick on the lutz. :yikes: And some skaters seem to hesitate too long skating backward into the lutz before launching. Do you think practicing figures would help with skaters' proper edge technique on the lutz?

The loop seems like a difficult jump for many skaters because of needing to master the proper rhythm curving into the take-off. Bradie Tennell said it's her favorite jump. And it's another jump that looks pretty, especially when paired in combo. Salchow doesn't seem like it should be too difficult, but some skaters have trouble with managing it well. I think the official order of difficulty is toe-loop, salchow, flip, loop, lutz, axel.
 
Cleo1782 said:
I loved myself some edge jumps. 2a was my fave...I would do them one after another. Probably why I am so critical of axel technique. Hated the lutz. Could do it but always felt so much pressure to be on the right edge.
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The double axel was my NEMESIS! I could land all my triples, but never had a consistent double axel. I started working on the it when I was about 12, and when I quit skating at 18 I still didn't have it consistent (except for a few months in the spring/summer when I was about 15/16). Oddly it had only taken me a few weeks to get my single axel, though. I don't know if it was the coaches or what, but none of the skaters at my club had good double axels.
For me, the triple loop was my favourite jump, but I also loved the flip. I was the kind of 'odd' skater who had no preference for edge or toe jumps (except the evil axel). I had an iffy edge entry into my double and triple lutz, so I tended to do a spread eagle into it to kind of hide the edge. I never went to any competitions that had replays (late 90s), so it made it harder for judges to catch in real time :D

As for the 4A, I don't expect to see it landed successfully in this or next season, but I won't be surprised to see half-decent attempts coming soon. I just hope that whoever works on it isn't doing so just to get a 'first', but does so because they have the actual ability for it.
Before the 4A, I think some skaters might have a better chance at successfully landing a quad/quad combination. I'd like to see that being tried...
 
screech said:
The double axel was my NEMESIS! I could land all my triples, but never had a consistent double axel. I started working on the it when I was about 12, and when I quit skating at 18 I still didn't have it consistent (except for a few months in the spring/summer when I was about 15/16). Oddly it had only taken me a few weeks to get my single axel, though. I don't know if it was the coaches or what, but none of the skaters at my club had good double axels.
For me, the triple loop was my favourite jump, but I also loved the flip. I was the kind of 'odd' skater who had no preference for edge or toe jumps (except the evil axel). I had an iffy edge entry into my double and triple lutz, so I tended to do a spread eagle into it to kind of hide the edge. I never went to any competitions that had replays (late 90s), so it made it harder for judges to catch in real time :D

As for the 4A, I don't expect to see it landed successfully in this or next season, but I won't be surprised to see half-decent attempts coming soon. I just hope that whoever works on it isn't doing so just to get a 'first', but does so because they have the actual ability for it.
Before the 4A, I think some skaters might have a better chance at successfully landing a quad/quad combination. I'd like to see that being tried...
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Took me about 3 years to get it, but judges/coaches tell me it was a beauty-sounds like I am bragging. It's about the skid you hit into it. Loved the loop and sal...toe jumps were something I could land just not on a regular basis. I two footed a 3t and hit my head and John Zimmerman carried me off the ice..Might be my most famous moment. I am 5'8 and was 4'11 when I was 14. So I just grew up in the worst way. Would have loved to pairs but I was so tall.

I am going take my 5 min of fame and tell you Sasha Cohen once said she wished she had a 2a like mine. Beat me soundly in every competition though. Also, my mom was actually in a fluff piece about Sasha selling her beanie babies... so embarrassing.
 
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Cleo1782 said:
Took me about 3 years to get it, but judges/coaches tell me it was a beauty-sounds like I am bragging.
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Heck, anyone who was or is a competitive figure skater deserves to brag, big time. :D

Cleo1782 said:
John Zimmerman carried me off the ice..Might be my most famous moment.
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Oh my! :saint: What a dream moment to be in possession of, even with experiencing any pain from hitting your head. Did you think you were dreaming when it happened? ;) Ah, now that's really something to brag about. Or no, better yet, to hold close to your heart. John Z is a such a talented, caring, and handsome sweetie! He and Silvia Fontana seem made for each other.

Unaccountably, we seem to be in the wrong thread for this conversation. :rofl:
 
aftershocks said:
Heck, anyone who was or is a competitive figure skater deserves to brag, big time. :D



Oh my! :saint: What a dream moment to be in possession of, even with experiencing any pain from hitting your head. Did you think you were dreaming when it happened? ;) Ah, now that's really something to brag about. Or no, better yet, to hold close to your heart. John Z is a such a talented, caring, and handsome sweetie! He and Silvia Fontana seem made for each other.

Unaccountably, we seem to be in the wrong thread for this conversation. :rofl:
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I was 15 and super embarrassed and also probably slightly concussed, but still love him. He was already dating Silvia back then, but he still remembers the time I nearly killed myself in front of him. Not the greatest claim to fame, but at least he remembers me for something. I still get tongue tied with him. I said something stupid to him at Nationals last year about James/Cipres like I think they are going to medal at Worlds or something similar. I mean I was right, but it sounded really dumb. Again not the right thread, but I think Jonathan Beyer was standing next to me making a fool of myself, so kinda relevant?
 
Cleo1782 said:
I was 15 and super embarrassed and also probably slightly concussed, but still love him. He was already dating Silvia back then, but he still remembers the time I nearly killed myself in front of him. Not the greatest claim to fame, but at least he remembers me for something. I still get tongue tied with him. I said something stupid to him at Nationals last year about James/Cipres like I think they are going to medal at Worlds or something similar. I mean I was right, but it sounded really dumb. Again not the right thread, but I think Jonathan Beyer was standing next to me making a fool of myself, so kinda relevant?
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What a great story!
 
@Cleo1782 ”It's about the skid you hit into it.”

Absolutely correct. I know it myself as a skater. I’ve heard Kurt Browning discuss the skid many times with respect to Patrick Chan. Same thing as @bardtoob says above re Nathan.

But Nathan’s 3A last night was just fine. Just fine, indeed.
 
aftershocks said:
The loop seems like a difficult jump for many skaters because of needing to master the proper rhythm curving into the take-off.
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100% true for me, back in the day. No assist at all for the loop jump. I was taught to do multiple traveling 3 turns to create the momentum. It seems funny to me that now those traveling 3 turns are considered as difficult steps into the jump. I actually find it more impressive when a loop is executed without steps, based on my own personal experience.

Bradie has lovely jumps. ❤️
 
kittysk8ts said:
100% true for me, back in the day. No assist at all for the loop jump. I was taught to do multiple traveling 3 turns to create the momentum. It seems funny to me that now those traveling 3 turns are considered as difficult steps into the jump. I actually find it more impressive when a loop is executed without steps, based on my own personal experience.
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I concur with all of the above. The loop was always my nemesis.
 
Tinami Amori said:
When Kwan joined Rafael she was already a champion and formed, the relationship was of an adviser/consultant. I was ref. to taking someone very young, building him/her from scratch, allowing Rafael teach as he did back in Russia, without restrictions of "western" practices and restrictions of "coach as an employee of skater's family" vs. creative Svengali.
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Raf mentioned the differences between US and Russia on TSL, but it doesnt have to be one way or the other. There is a balance. He could start by setting expectations and rules, like no surprise jumping passes, etc.

I wish he would start a skating program for young skaters. Get them when they are 4 and guide the ones with potential.
 
CaliSteve said:
Raf mentioned the differences between US and Russia on TSL, but it doesnt have to be one way or the other. There is a balance. He could start by setting expectations and rules, like no surprise jumping passes, etc.
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That sounds very Frank Carroll, especially after what he went through with Chris Bowman that one performance where Bowman changed everything up.
 
peibeck said:
And this week he feels professional enough to discuss Gracie Gold's mental health with his know-it-all subtextal tone of "well we all know she's going to go to Russia and just bomb, so why is she evening bothering?"

Erm, maybe because it isn't all about what YOU think, Dave? :p
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That’s not what he said. I am all for a debate but do you listen? He basically said she shouldn’t be thrust out at Rostelecom. He recommended training through out the year, maybe waiting until Nationals and then starting small with senior b’s. What’s wrong with that? I am nervous for her to go to Rostelecom of all places. If it doesn’t go well, where does that put her mentally? She is not that far out from getting treatment barely a year. I thought his points were very valid.
 
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