The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[Dobre]

I hate tango music. Didn’t we just have this like three years ago? Even a polka is better but I so want a waltz.

I think the street theme worked out really well in an Oly year!

We had the Argentine Tango during the last post-Olympic season. (That's the tango I love the most). 2018-19.

I don't know the last time the teams did Tango Romantica. The last time I remember it was back when Tanith was skating. I remember that because the North American commentator was always saying that it was the "soft, romantic" tango and trying to convince us that it was perfectly OK that she couldn't contain her smile.

We might have done it since then. I wasn't very compelled to rewatch a lot of dance programs during the Virtue & Moir/Davis & White era.

 

[Karen-W]

When did Gilles and Poirier announce?? I haven’t seen any decision from them

Beginning of the season, when talking about why they chose their FD music, it sounded pretty much like this was their last season.

Regarding DavSmo switching, I don't think they would be on the US 4CCs team - in non-Olympic years we usually send the A squad to that, so it will be ChoBat, HawBak and GrePar, or maybe CarPon if they can get back on track and challenge HawBak and GrePar. DavSmo soundly beat both BraSom and PateBye at CS Austria, and also beat PateBye by a solid margin at US Classic. They're certainly ahead of both of those teams (and WolfChen too). My expectation is they would slot in at US #5 - but I also think the race behind ChoBat from 2-8 is very fluid and can easily change with different material from each team as well as coaching changes, etc. The question is, would DavSmo want to settle in to that fight or just wait out the Russian sanctions (which might very well last more than a year, possibly even this entire Olympic cycle)? If they want to compete and the sanctions look lengthy, they will switch, mark my words.

I don't believe MorNar will switch to the US. They might wind up training here but she also has French citizenship and he is Ukrainian by birth, so they have at least 2 other options. France has 3 spots for Worlds next year. Lopareva/Brissaud are certainly getting one of those spots and they have some talented young teams, but there is certainly an opportunity, should MorNar make the switch. And, honestly, I would if I were them because there are some really good junior teams coming up in Russia and there is no guarantee they'll be top 3 in Russia, especially if StepBuk and ZagGuer continue and DavSmo don't switch.

 

[millyskate]

Eteri's whole brand is built on Russian nationalism. She would never have her daughter compete for another country.

Sometimes people surprise you. Both Diana and Gleb have posted anti-war / pro-Ukraine statements and have been rumoured to be switching countries. So...

 

[kates8]

Paul gave an interview where he said they were going to skate shows for a while.

They haven't strictly announced retirement, but they're not going to compete next season at a minimum.

They are doing Stars on Ice shows but I think your retirement statement is a bit presumptive. I’d hate to spread rumours until I hear it spoken from them.

 

[manhn]

Tango Romantica was done as a CD at the 2010 Olympics.

 

[Karen-W]

They are doing Stars on Ice shows but I think your retirement statement is a bit presumptive. I’d hate to spread rumours until I hear it spoken from them.

They haven't said anything that indicates they will be skating competitively next season. They have said that their FD music was chosen as a reflection of the long, winding road that has been their career. Do they need to explicitly announce, like Madi/Zach that they are DONE? A lot of skaters/teams seem to be taking the ShibSibs and Mirai Nagasu route of not making a formal announcement but instead exploring other options and just stepping away, leaving their uber fans pining away at a possible return that never materializes.

 

[Gris]

We had the Argentine Tango during the last post-Olympic season. (That's the tango I love the most). 2018-19.

During 2018-19 the Juniors did the Argentine Tango pattern while the Seniors did Tango Romantica.

 

[PRlady]

Beginning of the season, when talking about why they chose their FD music, it sounded pretty much like this was their last season.

Regarding DavSmo switching, I don't think they would be on the US 4CCs team - in non-Olympic years we usually send the A squad to that, so it will be ChoBat, HawBak and GrePar, or maybe CarPon if they can get back on track and challenge HawBak and GrePar. DavSmo soundly beat both BraSom and PateBye at CS Austria, and also beat PateBye by a solid margin at US Classic. They're certainly ahead of both of those teams (and WolfChen too). My expectation is they would slot in at US #5 - but I also think the race behind ChoBat from 2-8 is very fluid and can easily change with different material from each team as well as coaching changes, etc. The question is, would DavSmo want to settle in to that fight or just wait out the Russian sanctions (which might very well last more than a year, possibly even this entire Olympic cycle)? If they want to compete and the sanctions look lengthy, they will switch, mark my words.

I don't believe MorNar will switch to the US. They might wind up training here but she also has French citizenship and he is Ukrainian by birth, so they have at least 2 other options. France has 3 spots for Worlds next year. Lopareva/Brissaud are certainly getting one of those spots and they have some talented young teams, but there is certainly an opportunity, should MorNar make the switch. And, honestly, I would if I were them because there are some really good junior teams coming up in Russia and there is no guarantee they'll be top 3 in Russia, especially if StepBuk and ZagGuer continue and DavSmo don't switch.

Remember that the judging is going to look different without Russian judges and influence. Somehow I'm not sure that Ukrainian, Baltic, Polish, Georgian, Azeri and other FSU judges will want to favor Russian skaters under current circumstances even if they're skating for other countries. Particularly if their parents are long-time Russian coaches.

 

[Karen-W]

Remember that the judging is going to look different without Russian judges and influence. Somehow I'm not sure that Ukrainian, Baltic, Polish, Georgian, Azeri and other FSU judges will want to favor Russian skaters under current circumstances even if they're skating for other countries. Particularly if their parents are long-time Russian coaches.

All very true. Who knows what things will look like? It's also possible that those skaters and their coaches/parents will be smart enough (like DavSmo already) to make it clear they don't support the war, which could change how they are received by judging panels. It isn't as though skaters like Gubanova, Ryabova, Kurakova, Kvitelashvili, Litvintsev, or Kazakova/Reviya were judged poorly, despite their well-known Russian ties.

 

[PRlady]

All very true. Who knows what things will look like? It's also possible that those skaters and their coaches/parents will be smart enough (like DavSmo already) to make it clear they don't support the war, which could change how they are received by judging panels. It isn't as though skaters like Gubanova, Ryabova, Kurakova, Kvitelashvili, Litvintsev, or Kazakova/Reviya were judged poorly, despite their well-known Russian ties.

None of them are part of the Russian power hierarchy the way Davis and Morozov will be perceived to be, though. Although Morisi is an Eteri skater and he was indeed judged fairly (actually overly well if you ask me.)

 

[her grace]

Beginning of the season, when talking about why they chose their FD music, it sounded pretty much like this was their last season.

Regarding DavSmo switching, I don't think they would be on the US 4CCs team - in non-Olympic years we usually send the A squad to that, so it will be ChoBat, HawBak and GrePar, or maybe CarPon if they can get back on track and challenge HawBak and GrePar. DavSmo soundly beat both BraSom and PateBye at CS Austria, and also beat PateBye by a solid margin at US Classic. They're certainly ahead of both of those teams (and WolfChen too).

I see what you're saying in that D/S definitely have the higher SB and more international experience than these mid-ranked American teams. But I think a lot of circumstances have changed that wouldn't necessarily keep D/S ahead of these American teams in the upcoming season(s).

At CS Austria, Davis/Smolkin had the full weight of the Russian apparatus behind them. That would change if they switched countries. USFS could say, "Great, we've got a team that's already ranked fairly high" and keep pushing them, or they could say, "We've already got C/B, H/B, and G/P" and not waste their political capital on D/S. And CS Austria was B/S's first international competition--they are rising rapidly and could conceivably be ahead of D/S by championships next year, particularly since USFS would be calling the shots on who to send where and D/S would have to sit out the regular season because of a country switch. ETA: And if Wolfkostin/Chen place well at junior worlds, USFS may also want to begin pushing them up in preparation for when the older guard retires. Plus has Smolkin even started a citizenship process? If not, they're going to be a non-factor for the Olympics for years; just ask C/P about the ceiling of support you can hit from USFS when there are other equally good teams who are eligible. I do agree with your assessment that they are ahead of Pate/Bye.

My expectation is they would slot in at US #5 - but I also think the race behind ChoBat from 2-8 is very fluid and can easily change with different material from each team as well as coaching changes, etc.

I also agree with your assessment of the fluidity of the U.S. dance field.

 

[Dobre]

During 2018-19 the Juniors did the Argentine Tango pattern while the Seniors did Tango Romantica.

I guess I blocked that out entirely. Must be because no one was telling us the tango needed to be soft and romantic this time around.

I think maybe we should wait for the official announcement then. It seems like every time I hear discussion about what the RD will be in advance, it turns out to be wrong. The official announcement has to be coming out very soon, no?

 

[kates8]

They haven't said anything that indicates they will be skating competitively next season. They have said that their FD music was chosen as a reflection of the long, winding road that has been their career. Do they need to explicitly announce, like Madi/Zach that they are DONE? A lot of skaters/teams seem to be taking the ShibSibs and Mirai Nagasu route of not making a formal announcement but instead exploring other options and just stepping away, leaving their uber fans pining away at a possible return that never materializes.

All I’m saying is that its presumptive to take them out of next years conversation since we haven’t heard it from them. You say in a post up thread that “It does sound like Papadakis/Cizeron are also retiring but since there hasn't been an official announcement, I didn't mark them off my list for the seeded GP teams.” So it’s interesting that you cross GP off yet they haven’t officially announced. I just think it’s fair to keep all teams in next years conversation until they say they are out.

 

[Wyliefan]

An odd trend I noticed in Canadian ice dance: Unlike the rest of the top dance teams, none of the Canadian teams got a season's best at the Olympics or at Worlds.

If I've done the math correctly (and someone may want to check me, because math is not my strong suit):

Gilles/Poirier were a little over 8 points below their SB at Worlds.
Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen were a little over 6 points below their SB at Worlds.
Lajoie/Lagha were nearly 9 points below their SB at Worlds.

Additionally, none of them got a personal best this season. For the latter two teams, their season's best was significantly lower than their personal best.

What goes on in Canada?

 

[Karen-W]

All I’m saying is that its presumptive to take them out of next years conversation since we haven’t heard it from them. You say in a post up thread that “It does sound like Papadakis/Cizeron are also retiring but since there hasn't been an official announcement, I didn't mark them off my list for the seeded GP teams.” So it’s interesting that you cross GP off yet they haven’t officially announced. I just think it’s fair to keep all teams in next years conversation until they say they are out.

You do realize you're the only person arguing that GilPoir shouldn't have been marked as "retiring," right? They made the comments at the beginning of the season that indicated this was it for them and, unlike ChoBat, GuiFab, and FBSor who have explicitly said they will skate at least 1-2 more seasons, nothing they've said since has even hinted at "we'll talk at the end of the season" like both Spanish teams. PapCiz have said NOTHING at all to indicate what their intentions are going forward because their sole focus was an Olympic gold medal. That is why I left them on the list but crossed GilPoir off. There is a huge difference in what both teams have stated about this season, their programs, and their status post-2022.

 

[Andrea82]

I didn't think we had heard anything definitive regarding Reed/Ambrulevicius either.

Their quotes on ISU website about future plans after the FD in Montpellier were

Reed (on future plans) Of course we set some goals we want to achieve but honestly we’ve achieved pretty much all of the ones we have set this season, so to create new ones will be a nice conversation.

Ambrulevicius (on future plans) We’re going to rest, take a little break, heal our injuries, and then come back, start choreographing new programs and prepare for the new season


Her answer was pretty vague, his one pointed pretty clearly towards continuing next season.

 

[Karen-W]

An odd trend I noticed in Canadian ice dance: Unlike the rest of the top dance teams, none of the Canadian teams got a season's best at the Olympics or at Worlds.

If I've done the math correctly (and someone may want to check me, because math is not my strong suit):

Gilles/Poirier were a little over 8 points below their SB at Worlds.
Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen were a little over 6 points below their SB at Worlds.
Lajoie/Lagha were nearly 9 points below their SB at Worlds.

Additionally, none of them got a personal best this season. For the latter two teams, their season's best was significantly lower than their personal best.

What goes on in Canada?

Well, GilPoir's high scores were from ACI and SCI, both home events with the expected judging bounce, especially as they were early in the season when there was still an expectation/hope they would contend for the Olympic bronze.

FBSor - they had all sorts of small errors in that FD yesterday, so it's no surprise they finished off their SB.

Not sure why LajLag didn't score as well as earlier in the season.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Tango Romantica was done as a CD at the 2010 Olympics.

Yes and the Dom/Shabs and V&M were both awesome at it!

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

An odd trend I noticed in Canadian ice dance: Unlike the rest of the top dance teams, none of the Canadian teams got a season's best at the Olympics or at Worlds.

If I've done the math correctly (and someone may want to check me, because math is not my strong suit):

Gilles/Poirier were a little over 8 points below their SB at Worlds.
Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen were a little over 6 points below their SB at Worlds.
Lajoie/Lagha were nearly 9 points below their SB at Worlds.

Additionally, none of them got a personal best this season. For the latter two teams, their season's best was significantly lower than their personal best.

What goes on in Canada?

Don't really know, but both G&P & F-B/S seemed "off" this year. I'd guess that the Lagjoies will get more attention at AIM next season after some of the top Montreal teams retire so I'm expecting to see them on an upward trajectory in 2022-23.

 

[Fadeevfanboy]

All I’m saying is that its presumptive to take them out of next years conversation since we haven’t heard it from them. You say in a post up thread that “It does sound like Papadakis/Cizeron are also retiring but since there hasn't been an official announcement, I didn't mark them off my list for the seeded GP teams.” So it’s interesting that you cross GP off yet they haven’t officially announced. I just think it’s fair to keep all teams in next years conversation until they say they are out.

They haven't announced retirement retirement (lets face it, we all know they are retiring for amateur competition but for the sake of the argument you are correct here) but they have ruled out competing next season atleast. Papadakis & Cizeron are pretty obviously going to take a season or two off atleast (quite possibly retire), but unlike G&P they have not officialy stated they aren't competing next season atleast.

 

[Dobre]

An odd trend I noticed in Canadian ice dance: Unlike the rest of the top dance teams, none of the Canadian teams got a season's best at the Olympics or at Worlds.

If I've done the math correctly (and someone may want to check me, because math is not my strong suit):

Gilles/Poirier were a little over 8 points below their SB at Worlds.
Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen were a little over 6 points below their SB at Worlds.
Lajoie/Lagha were nearly 9 points below their SB at Worlds.

Additionally, none of them got a personal best this season. For the latter two teams, their season's best was significantly lower than their personal best.

What goes on in Canada?

Gilles & Poirier: Well . . . I dunno. It took them all season to get that free into shape. The GPF might have pushed them to get there sooner, but the event didn't happen and, of course, none of the competitive teams went to 4CCs. The short program was a good program, IMO, but the pattern levels have always been a big challenge for G&P. The RD isn't their technical strength. I think Guignard & Fabbri defeating them in the RD during the team event at the Olympics was a big shock. Gilles & Poirier skated rather deer-in-headlights the rest of the Olympics. So then you head to Worlds in Europe, with a European team ranked above you and without any momentum. And . . . levels. They couldn't make up the ground there.

Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen overreacted to the fact that Smart & Diaz had a very popular FD and were making a big push. F-B&S changed their FD music without changing their choreography--basically a big announcement to the skating world that the choreography was now irrelevant. And in the end, that did not work. It might have been OK, but they bombed the FD at the Olympics with multiple mistakes. Pressure. And there went their momentum.

Lajoie & Lagha. L&L got a basic on the pattern in their RD at Worlds. That's all that happened there really. Their honeymoon of being the only young team around their age competing at their own GP events, 4CCs, etc. is at an end. They are now headed into the more realistic dogfight that exists in that zone of competition. Bunch of those teams got to go to SC this year, and we got a good preview of what the fight can really be. L&L are in it. They just aren't in it alone.

 

[firstflight]

In my opinion, L/L should not have kept that FD for the Olympic season. The song selection, to me, says “Treat us like we’re still junior skaters.”

 

[RoseRed]

I guess I blocked that out entirely. Must be because no one was telling us the tango needed to be soft and romantic this time around.

I think maybe we should wait for the official announcement then. It seems like every time I hear discussion about what the RD will be in advance, it turns out to be wrong. The official announcement has to be coming out very soon, no?

This is what I saw about next year's pattern, from the German broadcast:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1507772236765278215

 

[Colonel Green]

In my opinion, L/L should not have kept that FD for the Olympic season. The song selection, to me, says “Treat us like we’re still junior skaters.”

I don't see anything junior about it. It's meant to be quirky and stand out, which it succeeds at.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't see anything junior about it. It's meant to be quirky and stand out, which it succeeds at.

Well, the music is from a "kids movie," so I can see people perceiving it as "junior." Sort of like DavSmo skated to "The Aristocats" in their only JGP season or a lot of junior teams went to the Disney vault for their RDs when it was the Broadway/musical theme.

 

[firstflight]

For me, it’s not really that the movie is a kid’s movie. It’s the particular song choice from the sound track “…..real in Rio…”

Like imagine if Fear/Gibson chose “I Just Can’t Wait to Be King” as part of their Lion King FD.

 

[Karen-W]

For me, it’s not really that the movie is a kid’s movie. It’s the particular song choice from the sound track “…..real in Rio…”

Like imagine if Fear/Gibson chose “I Just Can’t Wait to Be King” as part of their Lion King FD.

That makes sense!

 

[firstflight]

I don't see anything junior about it. It's meant to be quirky and stand out, which it succeeds at.

People were discussing them partly because their season’s best this season was significantly lower than their personal best.

Why you think that is? I personally think keeping that program for a second season contributed to the issue.

 

[Dobre]

Well, Lajoie & Lagha had 108.71 for this FD last year at Worlds and 108.45 this year for the same dance at Worlds.

I think the key lesson there is that they had actually skated the program as well it could be done last year. That it really didn't have all the room to grow that they & their team thought it had. And I do agree that if they had chosen a new FD for this season, they might have grown more. (Though I sure don't think it would have helped them to drag us through yet another soft & flowy lyrical FD. If that's the ice dance world's definition of "maturity," it would not have helped, IMO).

End of the day, though, they finished as high as I think they could have at the Olympics and only below one team at Worlds that they had a legit shot of defeating without the other team mucking up. That one team was Reed & Ambrulevicius, and L&L lost to them because of the RD. Not the free.

 

[Karen-W]

People were discussing them partly because their season’s best this season was significantly lower than their personal best.

Why you think that is? I personally think keeping that program for a second season contributed to the issue.

Normally, I would agree, but the past two seasons haven't been normal at all and, especially for the Canadian teams, they had ZERO competition opportunities prior to Worlds 2021. Just a few video comps and not even Canadian Nationals.