The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[~tapdancer~]

Zoueva is coaching Muramoto/Takahashi.

M/K are likely Komatsubara/Koleto, from the context.

Oh yeah, I think I knew that but forgot. Not a fan of M/T. And I agree, she used Misato (first name) and Koleto (last name) which was why I couldn't place it. I am a fan of K/K. The older I get, I just enjoy skaters that give me feels. Which is "to each their own" mindset. And it actually makes me pretty happy.

 

[lauravvv]

No idea who are M/K, but sour grapes are never a good look.

Thank you. Of course, it was a mistake/typo, and I meant K/K (Komatsubara/Koleto).

 

[Ka3sha]

they don't bring it to Plushenko's level of ridiculousness. Not doing so always looks worse.

Plushenko’s level of ridiculousness?

Thank god, he is not afraid and have enough money and political support to say the truth. Ridiculousness is not what he has said, ridiculousness is all about Sherbakova’s and Davis/Smolkin scores at this year’s Nationals.

 

[Bigbird]

Plushenko’s level of ridiculousness?

Thank god, he is not afraid and have enough money and political support to say the truth. Ridiculousness is not what he has said, ridiculousness is all about Sherbakova’s and Davis/Smolkin scores at this year’s Nationals.

I agree about Anna. Those scores were special. OTOH I rather like D/S. The other teams were weak. Bazin cannot lead Morozova and Bagin's programs are horrendous. If Z/G were healthy though and in good form I would have given the edge to them. Both their programs as presented at Nationals this year were lit. The D/S FD is unfortunate given that Igor actually gave us that Tango classic from Punsalon and Swallow. Sigh.

 

[Dobre]

Question:

So are we going to get any upsets in dance at U.S. or Canadian Nationals this year? What do you think?

I'm thinking that the most open battles are for the third U.S. berth at 4CCs and probably the 2nd & 3rd Canadian berths there? Predictions?

 

[Colonel Green]

Question:

So are we going to get any upsets in dance at U.S. or Canadian Nationals this year? What do you think?

I'm thinking that the most open battles are for the third U.S. berth at 4CCs and probably the 2nd & 3rd Canadian berths there? Predictions?

I think the Canadian standings are pretty set barring freak error.

US Nationals I think there’s a real battle as to whether Hawayek & Baker can retain their #3 spot. That injury came at a very unfortunate time.

 

[RoseRed]

I think the Canadian standings are pretty set barring freak error.

US Nationals I think there’s a real battle as to whether Hawayek & Baker can retain their #3 spot. That injury came at a very unfortunate time.

I think the Olympic team is set, but maybe not the 4CCs team. I feel like there are a few teams in the mix for that (Soucisse/Firus, Fabbri/Ayer, Lauriault/Le Gac, Sales/Wamsteeker, maybe Lanaghan/Razgulajevs).

 

[skategal]

Yeah I think the more interesting spots at Canadians will be who will finish 4, 5, and 6.

 

[Karen-W]

I think the Canadian standings are pretty set barring freak error.

US Nationals I think there’s a real battle as to whether Hawayek & Baker can retain their #3 spot. That injury came at a very unfortunate time.

I don't think Hawayek/Baker are nearly as vulnerable as some think. Green/Parsons were on the rise but they had falls in their last two competitions - that makes me wonder what sort of nerves they'll have to work through when an Olympic spot is on the line. Not to say that H/B haven't had similar issues in the past but they're the more experienced team and they did really well at both Rostelecom & Golden Spin based on how late they made their season debut. I think that third spot is H/B's to lose.

Like Canadians, the more interesting race is for the 4CCs spots - should be GrePar, CarPon and one of Bratti/Somerville, Pate/Bye, Wolfkostin/Chen and, maybe, Cesanek/Yehorov.

 

[Dobre]

I think the Olympic team is set, but maybe not the 4CCs team. I feel like there are a few teams in the mix for that (Soucisse/Firus, Fabbri/Ayer, Lauriault/Le Gac, Sales/Wamsteeker, maybe Lanaghan/Razgulajevs).

Do Lauriault & Le Gac have a minimum score for 4CCs?

 

[Karen-W]

Do Lauriault & Le Gac have a minimum score for 4CCs?

Well, the most current TES mins list from the ISU has them listed - under FRA, because the ISU is counting scores from 2018-19 still for TES min purposes.

 

[Dobre]

Gotcha. It's a shame it doesn't look like China is sending their second team to 4CCs. I don't think they would crack the podium--particularly not with this year's programs; but the more "unpredictable" potential, the merrier.

 

[Dobre]

I do think there is room for an upset for gold or bronze at U.S. Nationals. The final berth at 4CCs just feels the most open as there is a lot less senior-level competitive history there.

maybe not the 4CCs team

Also the Canadian Junior World team. Only two berths, correct?

And three experienced teams.

 

[millyskate]

I think that saying that all Sasha Stepanova is good for are her looks is total rubbish - it does her a total disservice. Yes, her skating skills aren't the best however, she's excellent in lifts, she can emote better than many other teams, her ability to change into difficult spin positions is pretty unmatched in the current field, her arms and hands are always incredibly well placed and the unison she has with Ivan is great. Skating skills are not the entire package, and frankly few teams across the World have the entire package so I really don't see the issue.

Thank you! She’s definitely far better than people give her credit for and does all of the above better than most. It’s why they’ve been one of my favourite teams.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I've seen S/B live in the past, and I think, at least at that time, that the criticism of them, especially her, was more accurate than the praise. Since their programs were telegenic, I was expecting them to be great, but live, there was little speed or ice coverage, and their ranking seemed, at best, contrived.

Ka3sha, though, described them as skating with speed and ice coverage at Russian Nats this year, and there's no law against teams improving. But I do think criticism of them in the past was deserved.

 

[Bigbird]

I've seen S/B live in the past, and I think, at least at that time, that the criticism of them, especially her, was more accurate than the praise. Since their programs were telegenic, I was expecting them to be great, but live, there was little speed or ice coverage, and their ranking seemed, at best, contrived.

Ka3sha, though, described them as skating with speed and ice coverage at Russian Nats this year, and there's no law against teams improving. But I do think criticism of them in the past was deserved.

If you look at Russian Nationals on the tele the shooting gives the impression of increased speed but when you look at fan footage they crawl slowly across the ice with her butt in the air. Europeans just might show their attributes more accurately. For these two I basically see good extension and a lot of posing. They go nowhere but would love to be proven wrong.

Edit:
I see nothing to cling to in their R&J. The last good and earnest R&J I've seen on ice was K/P as professionals and D/D as pairs. So an emotive traditional piece was sorely lacking.

We were waiting with bated breath for something earnest, passionate, emotional and poignant. What they've given on the ice just leaves much to be desired. It hurts me to say it but I could have imagined I/K skating to this with a classical balletic interpretation and nothing more needs be said.

If you're going to do Romeo and Juliet you have to be these characters. So if your skating skills are lacking and you can't really hack it don't do it! That has been my biggest gripe with these two: their questionable music choices. Somehow they seem to think they're all that but in reality they are an average albeit a very very attractive pairing.

Edit: How could I forget A/P?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Ka3sha was in the rink. After seeing the difference between video of them and seeing them live, I only trust descriptions from the rink.

 

[taz'smum]

Ka3sha was in the rink. After seeing the difference between video of them and seeing them live, I only trust descriptions from the rink.

Agreed, seeing teams live is a real eye-opener. I've been shocked at how different teams look live. Teams that look great on camera can have little ice coverage and small patterns live. Also, a lack of edges is much more apparent live.

I've learnt a way to tell if a team is slow, just check if the cameraman has the time to nicely frame the moves. The cameraman has trouble keeping up when a team really moves, and the background is slightly blurred.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I've learnt a way to tell if a team is slow, just check if the cameraman has the time to nicely frame the moves. The cameraman has trouble keeping up when a team really moves, and the background is slightly blurred.

I may be saying the same thing you are about framing but I look at how much they zoom in on a closeup and when. The cameraman tends to have a much wider view on the faster skaters so they can keep them in frame better. They tend to only do the closeups on stationary elements.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

If you look at Russian Nationals on the tele the shooting gives the impression of increased speed but when you look at fan footage they crawl slowly across the ice with her butt in the air. Europeans just might show their attributes more accurately. For these two I basically see good extension and a lot of posing. They go nowhere but would love to be proven wrong.

Edit:
I see nothing to cling to in their R&J. The last good and earnest R&J I've seen on ice was K/P as professionals and D/D as pairs. So an emotive traditional piece was sorely lacking.

We were waiting with bated breath for something earnest, passionate, emotional and poignant. What they've given on the ice just leaves much to be desired. It hurts me to say it but I could have imagined I/K skating to this with a classical balletic interpretation and nothing more needs be said.

If you're going to do Romeo and Juliet you have to be these characters. So if your skating skills are lacking and you can't really hack it don't do it! That has been my biggest gripe with these two: their questionable music choices. Somehow they seem to think they're all that but in reality they are an average albeit a very very attractive pairing.

Which is why she frequently suffers with back injuries.

 

[Dobre]

If I remember correctly, I saw Stepanova & Bukin live at the same event as kwanfan (Vancouver GPF?), and I was quite impressed with them there so even live, viewpoints totally differ. I'm pretty sure S&B also had a significant cheer section in the area where I was sitting for the competition. They had a mistake or two there, but I was impressed with how far they had come since 2016 Worlds. We watched practices along with the competition.


ETA: Mom & I are currently at the halfway point in watching a novice FD competition. Believe me, Stepanova looks pretty good

.

 

[kwanfan1818]

If I remember correctly, I saw Stepanova & Bukin live at the same event as kwanfan (Vancouver GPF?), and I was quite impressed with them there so even live, viewpoints totally differ.

Of course they do -- IIRC we came away with differing impressions of Kostornaia and Trusova at that competition. That's why we take what we read and calibrate, based on what we know of how our opinions intersect and what's important to the person who posts.

 

[Bigbird]

ETA: Mom & I are currently at the halfway point in watching a novice FD competition. Believe me, Stepanova looks pretty good

.

Things must be rough.

 

[Dobre]

Yep, though I don't know if I am who you are thinking of regarding Kostornaia & Trusova.

I've always been more of a Trusova fan, but not because of the JGPF. I would say that that JGPF is probably the reason I have more of an appreciation for Kostornaia than I did previously during her junior career. (Because she used the ice well, rather reminiscent of Michelle. Of course, I always liked Nicole and Sasha more than Michelle, so the more one's opinions change, the more they may also stay the same).

This thread would be so boring if we all just appreciated the same few teams. The joy of discussing ice dance on FSU, for me, is reading the varying viewpoints, opinions, and background experiences via everyone watching.

 

[Dobre]

I should also ask if we have it confirmed that Lauriault & Le Gac have been released from France at this point.

I know it has been well over a year since they competed for France. And I assume, based on Abachkina's repartnering with Drozd for a short while there, that it is not as difficult to win a release from France now as it used to be. But L&LG were ranked quite high in France's hierarchy & were, obviously, sent to the Olympics and Worlds, so rather than leaping to conclusions, I'd better ask.

 

[millyskate]

I've seen S/B live in the past, and I think, at least at that time, that the criticism of them, especially her, was more accurate than the praise. Since their programs were telegenic, I was expecting them to be great, but live, there was little speed or ice coverage, and their ranking seemed, at best, contrived.

Ka3sha, though, described them as skating with speed and ice coverage at Russian Nats this year, and there's no law against teams improving. But I do think criticism of them in the past was deserved.

I’ve seen Stepanova & Bukin live and have nearly always been impressed.
It was actually seeing them at the French GP the year they won their first medal that turned me into a fan.

 

[Bigbird]

I’ve seen Stepanova & Bukin live and have nearly always been impressed.
It was actually seeing them at the French GP the year they won their first medal that turned me into a fan.

I think what works against them this year is the choice of choreography. They also do not have the skating skills needed to pull off the dance. For 75% of this dance all you're seeing is this odd choreo no story no young lovers. There is no connect other than she's a beautiful girl in a barely there nightie. Annisina blue you away in less than 20 seconds. For the last minute you are shaking your head going "This is R&J?". The team doesn't know how to package them. The last FD from them that I really liked was the Tango Peter T. did for them years ago.

 

[millyskate]

I think what works against them this year is the choice of choreography. They also do not have the skating skills needed to pull off the dance. For 75% of this dance all you're seeing is this odd choreo no story no young lovers. There is no connect other than she's a beautiful girl in a barely there nightie. Annisina blue you away in less than 20 seconds. For the last minute you are shaking your head going "This is R&J?". The team doesn't know how to package them. The last FD from them that I really liked was the Tango Peter T. did for them years ago.

I too preferred their earlier programs.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

I think what works against them this year is the choice of choreography. They also do not have the skating skills needed to pull off the dance. For 75% of this dance all you're seeing is this odd choreo no story no young lovers. There is no connect other than she's a beautiful girl in a barely there nightie. Annisina blue you away in less than 20 seconds. For the last minute you are shaking your head going "This is R&J?". The team doesn't know how to package them. The last FD from them that I really liked was the Tango Peter T. did for them years ago.

Yes Bigbird, tell them????

 

[Dobre]

I know it's being discussed in a few threads, but for the folks not in the K&C or the P&C thread, fyi, that Papadakis & Cizeron have withdrawn from Europeans rather than take the health risk of traveling & competing prior to the Olympics.