The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[Karen-W]

Thank you @Immortelle.?
She is feeling pretty shitty right now, so let's hope tomorrow is a better day. ?
She is only 2 months into a 3 to 6 month recovery period, so she is doing incredibly well to have done what she did this competition.
Now she can get the real rest that she needs. They gave all they could and so can have no regrets.?

She deserves all the rest she can get! I hope she can take off for somewhere warm and tropical for at least a week or two, though I suppose flying might be out of the question right now.

 

[taz'smum]

She deserves all the rest she can get! I hope she can take off for somewhere warm and tropical for at least a week or two, though I suppose flying might be out of the question right now.

Nice idea but yes, flying is not allowed until at least Jan 22.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

Yeah, maybe so but they've got swag, a certain style, S still looks like she's in pain half the time, with her butt sticking up in the air. It might have taken a toll on the poor judges over time.

Yeap, again coaches failure to spot that flaw from the time she started skating. I mean really, doesn't Russia have an assessment process where they can see who has potential and pick from the best? It seems Russian skating ( especially in ice dance) focuses entirely on looks and little on other skills. Gone are the days when Russia had decent ice dance couples. You may be the most beautiful looking human from a privileged home and you will chosen over the more skillful and technically trained because HE/SHE is not thin and "pretty" enough and in the end, that is the result we are getting.

 

[caseyedwards]

Yeap, again coaches failure to spot that flaw from the time she started skating. I mean really, doesn't Russia have an assessment process where they can see who has potential and pick from the best? It seems Russian skating ( especially in ice dance) focuses entirely on looks and little on other skills. Gone are the days when Russia had decent ice dance couples. You may be the most beautiful looking human from a privileged home and you will chosen over the more skillful and technically trained because HE/SHE is not thin and "pretty" enough and in the end, that is the result we are getting.

Is this a joke? Russian dance has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS had massive differences in skill level between partners. Several Olympic champions and medalists teams!! That’s why I ask if this is a joke!! The issue is why didn’t they change their whole “only one needs talent” program after COP was introduced. This is the fact of Russian ice dance establishment. “Only one needs talent”

 

[Taso]

Is this a joke? Russian dance has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS had massive differences in skill level between partners. Several Olympic champions and medalists teams!! That’s why I ask if this is a joke!! The issue is why didn’t they change their whole “only one needs talent” program after COP was introduced. This is the fact of Russian ice dance establishment. “Only one needs talent”

Klimova Ponomarenko and Grischuk and Platov are two of the best matches teams in the history of the sport . I know in 98 Platov's knees were totally shot so the program had to focus on Grischuk. What you are saying is not this absolute you are claiming.

 

[caseyedwards]

Klimova Ponomarenko and Grischuk and Platov are two of the best matches teams in the history of the sport . I know in 98 Platov's knees were totally shot so the program had to focus on Grischuk. What you are saying is not this absolute you are claiming.

I didn’t say it was an absolute but the basic foundation was that only one person of the team needed talent-then it was about whoever they worked with best or got the results with

 

[irenemulindwairen]

Is this a joke? Russian dance has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS had massive differences in skill level between partners. Several Olympic champions and medalists teams!! That’s why I ask if this is a joke!! The issue is why didn’t they change their whole “only one needs talent” program after COP was introduced. This is the fact of Russian ice dance establishment. “Only one needs talent”

Which is why I am asking, why didn't they chose talent through some kind of assessment process?

 

[Taso]

I didn’t say it was an absolute but the basic foundation was that only one person of the team needed talent-then it was about whoever they worked with best or got the results with

Then you should have said that the first time instead of what you actually said.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

Is this a joke? Russian dance has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS had massive differences in skill level between partners. Several Olympic champions and medalists teams!! That’s why I ask if this is a joke!! The issue is why didn’t they change their whole “only one needs talent” program after COP was introduced. This is the fact of Russian ice dance establishment. “Only one needs talent”

I may agree with you but in the past, Russian ice dancers did really well but in today's Russia, the the lack of talent is glaring. Ilinykh and Katsalapov were the only pair who really succeeded under COP. The other teams seem to do well at junior level but when they transition to seniors it is a different story altogether.

 

[escaflowne9282]

Klimova Ponomarenko and Grischuk and Platov are two of the best matches teams in the history of the sport . I know in 98 Platov's knees were totally shot so the program had to focus on Grischuk. What you are saying is not this absolute you are claiming.

ITA. I actually think on the whole, prior to the COP, Russian ice dance teams were incredibly well matched. Starting with Navka and Kostamarov, it feels like they became very one sided in terms of talent and skill level.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

ITA. I actually think on the whole, prior to the COP, Russian ice dance teams were incredibly well matched. Starting with Navka and Kostamarov, it feels like they became very one sided in terms of talent and skill level.

Exactly.

 

[litenkyckling]

I think that saying that all Sasha Stepanova is good for are her looks is total rubbish - it does her a total disservice. Yes, her skating skills aren't the best however, she's excellent in lifts, she can emote better than many other teams, her ability to change into difficult spin positions is pretty unmatched in the current field, her arms and hands are always incredibly well placed and the unison she has with Ivan is great. Skating skills are not the entire package, and frankly few teams across the World have the entire package so I really don't see the issue.

 

[BittyBug]

Ilinykh and Katsalapov were the only pair who really succeeded under COP. The other teams seem to do well at junior level but when they transition to seniors it is a different story altogether.

I guess that's why Sinitsina and Katsalapov are the reigning World champions - because they couldn't succeed under COP.

Never mind that Bobrova and Soleviev were World bronze medalists as well.

 

[Bigbird]

I guess that's why Sinitsina and Katsalapov are the reigning World champions - because they couldn't succeed under COP.

Never mind that Bobrova and Soleviev were World bronze medalists as well.

I don't think the poster equates succeeding to only medals.

 

[caseyedwards]

ITA. I actually think on the whole, prior to the COP, Russian ice dance teams were incredibly well matched. Starting with Navka and Kostamarov, it feels like they became very one sided in terms of talent and skill level.

Are you saying Lobacheva was equal to averbukh

 

[Dobre]

I think that saying that all Sasha Stepanova is good for are her looks is total rubbish - it does her a total disservice. Yes, her skating skills aren't the best however, she's excellent in lifts, she can emote better than many other teams, her ability to change into difficult spin positions is pretty unmatched in the current field, her arms and hands are always incredibly well placed and the unison she has with Ivan is great. Skating skills are not the entire package, and frankly few teams across the World have the entire package so I really don't see the issue.

Stepanova & Bukin are doing fine. They are about to rise toward the top--if not to the very top--of the field so seeds of "doubt" are being sewn. But I think it's much too late. They're well established, and the podium is in sight.

I'm very curious about this next quadrennium, whether any of the other top teams will stay in to make it hard. Which of the teams in the wings will rise to the opportunity and develop into experienced podium contenders over the next quadrennium. And who will rise out of the "ashes" in some of the places about to face serious turnover.

Also, Guignard & Fabbri have said they're not done, but as we've discussed, maybe they'll take a break & then return for a home Olympics so that would put a different spin on the usual 4-year route.

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In addition to all of that, there are some fun, entertaining teams I'm just enjoying watching right now & hope to see develop. Orihara & Pirinen, Lopareva & Brissaud. I still like Nazarova & Nikitin. I hope they'll go 4 more years. I'm really looking forward to seeing the young U.S. teams finally move their battle onto the major international stage--at the very least at the 4CC level.

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I'm so sick & tired of the slow, sleepy free programs & I'm really hoping Stepanova & Bukin and whoever else rises onto the podium can shake things up and start a new trend or three, though I'm sure there will still be plenty of Marie France's favorite music.

I don't know what the heck is going to happen with all these Russian coaches (Shpilband included), but I assume Zhulin will poach somebody from someone and the current three-coaching-team coalition seems untenable at best so we probably have headed our way. (I'm just prepared for more and as who knows how many young teams I like will get torn apart in the process).

----

Then again, I really didn't think all three U.S. teams would make it through 4 years in the same place; but there they still are so sometimes you get no drama after all. (Though we did get an alien encounter out of it).

 

[mjb52]

I don't remember a time when I've felt so uncertain about who the leaders would be in the next quad.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think Chock/Bates are going to retire immediately, so they'll be contending at least to start off the next quad; same with Guignard/Fabbri and, from the sound of it, Stepanova/Bukin. I think the biggest uncertainty comes from the teams in the 7-15 range - Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen might stay in through Montreal Worlds, Fear/Gibson are certainly going to be around but they have some clear weaknesses, Hawayek/Baker are still going to be stuck behind C/B instead of the clear US #1 and could get lapped by Green/Parsons, Lajoie/Lagha might be heading down the same stagnating path that Carreira/Ponomarenko are on, and the rest all seem on their way out the door to retirement. There's a lot of room for new teams to move into the top 10 and start making noise, I think.

 

[MsZem]

Papadakis and Cizeron were 13th at 2014 Worlds

I suspect back in 2013-14 most people would have expected Ilinykh and Katsalapov to be a dominant force going forward - which obviously didn't happen. And while there were those who saw a lot of potential in P/C, I don't think anyone predicted how fast they'd rise to the top.

 

[mjb52]

I was going to say something about that and I/K but didn't want to bring up a touchy subject lol.

 

[deegee]

i feel so behind, but when did tim koleto change his name?

 

[allezfred]

i feel so behind, but when did tim koleto change his name?

When he got Japanese citizenship. He still answers to Tim though.

 

[deegee]

When he got Japanese citizenship. He still answers to Tim though.

thanks! i checked his wiki page before i asked here. but they don't mention his name change at all (tho i did skim it really fast).

 

[allezfred]

thanks! i checked his wiki page before i asked here. but they don't mention his name change at all (tho i did skim it really fast).

He still goes by Tim Koleto internationally. When you receive Japanese citizenship, you are given the option of choosing a Japanese name for your official documents.

I have to say I was really impressed by how good his Japanese has gotten. I know certain people here aren't happy that he isn't native Japanese, but he has really worked hard and taken becoming a Japanese citizen seriously.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

I guess that's why Sinitsina and Katsalapov are the reigning World champions - because they couldn't succeed under COP.

Never mind that Bobrova and Soleviev were World

 

[litenkyckling]

I'm very curious about this next quadrennium, whether any of the other top teams will stay in to make it hard. Which of the teams in the wings will rise to the opportunity and develop into experienced podium contenders over the next quadrennium. And who will rise out of the "ashes" in some of the places about to face serious turnover.

I'm really excited to see what happens (but also a bit uncertain re: D/S given the nonsensical scoring we've seen for them this season).

I think that if P/C retire (which I kind of think they will, I feel like they are perhaps emotionally ready to move onto the next stage of their lives) then L/B could have a similar trajectory to them. I don't think that they are as good as P/C were, but they too could enter a new quad without any huge internal battles and may be able to quickly solidify themselves as French #1.

I generally feel like we'll see the first lot of retirements this year and then the next lot after Montreal worlds and then the Olympic contenders will be a surprise again. Looking forward to seeing the younger teams get a chance to grow a bit more too - younger teams in the US, Canada and Russia have so little championship experience (which I think is crucial for confidence) due to the top teams being so solid for such a long time, so it will be great to see.

 

[Karen-W]

You know what occurred to me yesterday after the Rus Nats FD, and I meant to circle back here with this observation... the DavSmo result is as much about rewarding Eteri as it is about making Igor Shpilband relevant in ice dancing again. They're now his clear #1 team and they're positioned to become Russia's #1 sooner rather than later. Fasten your seat belts for the new ride!

 

[Colonel Green]

Lajoie/Lagha might be heading down the same stagnating path that Carreira/Ponomarenko are on

Not comparable situations, in my view. Carreira & Ponomarenko are hitting some technical speedbumps as a result of their coaching change, but also seem to be floundering a bit amidst internal competition in the US dance scene.

Lajoie & Lagha are basically just waiting their turn to move up from national #3 to #2 next season and then from #2 to #1 whenever Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen call it quits (or possibly they could get past them before that, who knows?). There is basically no danger of them getting passed by anybody behind them, which will make them Canada's top dance team and thus a significant factor in the international scene for a while yet (whether or not they can make it onto the World podium in the end).

 

[Ka3sha]

Nikolai Morozov in the interview confirmed that they are indeed now working with Irina Zhuk, Aleksandr Svinin and Alexei Gorshkov. All together they had five teams at these year's Nationals: Stepanova/Bukin, Morozov/Bagin, Shanaeva/Naryzhny, Ushakova/Nekrasov, Pasechnik/Blinov. All teams are sharing the same ice and work all together

«Чтобы русские побеждали в танцах на льду, нужно объединение усилий тренеров». Николай Морозов об итогах ЧР в парных видах

Об историческом событии в Петербурге и триумфе пар Москвиной.

matchtv.ru

 

[Wyliefan]

Lajoie & Lagha are basically just waiting their turn to move up from national #3 to #2 next season and then from #2 to #1 whenever Fournier Beaudry & Sorensen call it quits (or possibly they could get past them before that, who knows?). There is basically no danger of them getting passed by anybody behind them, which will make them Canada's top dance team and thus a significant factor in the international scene for a while yet (whether or not they can make it onto the World podium in the end).

I don't know. I think @Karen-W has spotted the same thing in them that I have; when I read her line about stagnation, I thought "Yes, exactly." However, perhaps we're wrong and you're right. If so, I will admit my error and humbly eat crow.