The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

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Does anyone have an update on the second Ukrainian team, Golubtsova & Belobrov? Are they signed up to compete anywhere? I was watching the young Ukrainian team on the JGP this morning & realized that I had not heard anything about G&B recently.
 
Dobre said:
Does anyone have an update on the second Ukrainian team, Golubtsova & Belobrov? Are they signed up to compete anywhere? I was watching the young Ukrainian team on the JGP this morning & realized that I had not heard anything about G&B recently.
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Haven't heard anything.

Unrelatedly, the last two JGP dance contests would have had different winners if the silver medalists' coaches and domestic tech panels had been paying attention to the rules. There's a lesson there, or there should be.
 
Colonel Green said:
Haven't heard anything.

Unrelatedly, the last two JGP dance contests would have had different winners if the silver medalists' coaches and domestic tech panels had been paying attention to the rules. There's a lesson there, or there should be.
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Even if Vasilisa and Valeri didn't loose those two points they wouldn't have won, not so?

OTOH, I liked the attack of Waddell and partner the FD just felt a little awkward at times but I did like their RD a lot. Both of these couples brought to mind the flash of brilliance that was IK and the potential they never realized.

I do really like Isabella and Dimitry but it appears they were too nervous. Isabella lost her balance completing their sliding move near the end. They seemed a bit better at LPLID.

But what I do like is the wide variety of fresh young talent. Lots to look forward to as many couples will be retiring soon.
 
Bigbird said:
Even if Vasilisa and Valeri didn't loose those two points they wouldn't have won, not so?
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No, they would have won. They lost by 2.32 points. 2 full points of that is the deductions, so removing those already cuts the margin to 0.32.

Then you have the character step, which due to the negative GOE from the fall designation dropped from its base value of 1.10 points to a value of 0.57 points. Even if they'd gotten exactly neutral GOE, they would have won. But realistically they would have gotten similar GOE to Natalie & Bruce, whose equivalent element was worth 3.59 points.

So without the falls being called they would have scored a comfortable (by ice dance standards) win.
 
Colonel Green said:
No, they would have won. They lost by 2.32 points. 2 full points of that is the deductions, so removing those already cuts the margin to 0.32.

Then you have the character step, which due to the negative GOE from the fall designation dropped from its base value of 1.10 points to a value of 0.57 points. Even if they'd gotten exactly neutral GOE, they would have won. But realistically they would have gotten similar GOE to Natalie & Bruce, whose equivalent element was worth 3.59 points.

So without the falls being called they would have scored a comfortable (by ice dance standards) win.
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Noted. So what's the point of having rules that are so open to such wide interpretation? The coaches should have the ability to challenge these rulings. Don't rhythmic gymnasts get that opportunity?
 
Bigbird said:
I do really like Isabella and Dimitry but it appears they were too nervous. Isabella lost her balance completing their sliding move near the end. They seemed a bit better at LPLID.
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Was the issue on the first FD spin?
In Lake Placid International it was called (by Shawn Rettstatt, Galit Chait, Kristin Fraser) Level 2. They would have possibly lost even with the LPLID call (4.50 BV vs 3.75 BV. They received 5.82 overall in Lake Placid for that element vs 5.20 in Courchevel)
 
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Andrea82 said:
Was the issue on the first FD spin?
In Lake Placid International it was called (by Shawn Rettstatt, Galit Chait, Kristin Fraser) Level 2. They would have possibly lost even with the LPLID call (4.50 BV vs 3.75 BV. They received 5.82 overall in Lake Placid for that element vs 5.20 in Courchevel)
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The issue was the design of the first spin. The issue was not caught by their coach, Dostatni. It wasn’t caught by Shawn Rettstatt, Judy Blumberg, Galit Chait, or Kristen Fraser (some of the callers in Dallas and Lake Placid).

The issue is the design of the element. It’s clearly designed to be a combination spin, but during the change of feet only Tsarevski changes feet. Flores stays on the same spinning foot, and instead uses her free leg to push into the 2nd part of the spin. Because he changes feet while she doesn’t, they don’t meet the definition of a combination dance spin. They’re also no longer performing a dance spin as he changed feet and she touched down with her free foot. Once that happened, they’re in the “exit” phase of the element, so the panel stops counting features.

By the time Tsarevski changes feet and Flores touches down with her free foot, they had only achieved a level 1 Dance Spin, so that’s all they got credit for, and just ended up having a very intricate exit phase.

What boggles my mind is the multitude of failures that occurred. Their coach, Dostatni, as a caller who has called the Olympics, should have known better. So should have Rettstatt, a member of the ISU technical committee! The other members of the technical panels in Dallas and Lake Placid too! For Flores & Tsarevski, not getting a Level 4 cost them a gold medal, and they have some of the biggest names in terms Ice Dance Officials to blame.
 
Thanks. I am rewatching it from LP. Indeed, she put down the left foot but then she restarts spinning on the right foot again.
 
thvu said:
The issue was the design of the first spin. The issue was not caught by their coach, Dostatni. It wasn’t caught by Shawn Rettstatt, Judy Blumberg, Galit Chait, or Kristen Fraser (some of the callers in Dallas and Lake Placid).

The issue is the design of the element. It’s clearly designed to be a combination spin, but during the change of feet only Tsarevski changes feet. Flores stays on the same spinning foot, and instead uses her free leg to push into the 2nd part of the spin. Because he changes feet while she doesn’t, they don’t meet the definition of a combination dance spin. They’re also no longer performing a dance spin as he changed feet and she touched down with her free foot. Once that happened, they’re in the “exit” phase of the element, so the panel stops counting features.

By the time Tsarevski changes feet and Flores touches down with her free foot, they had only achieved a level 1 Dance Spin, so that’s all they got credit for, and just ended up having a very intricate exit phase.

What boggles my mind is the multitude of failures that occurred. Their coach, Dostatni, as a caller who has called the Olympics, should have known better. So should have Rettstatt, a member of the ISU technical committee! The other members of the technical panels in Dallas and Lake Placid too! For Flores & Tsarevski, not getting a Level 4 cost them a gold medal, and they have some of the biggest names in terms Ice Dance Officials to blame.
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The problem is the rules rob coaches and choreographers of lattitude to be creative. It has created a void. So often times callers are just thirsty for a breath of fresh air, to appreciate something new, until the rules come back to haunt them. Ice dance is just like this.
 
thvu said:
The issue was the design of the first spin. The issue was not caught by their coach, Dostatni. It wasn’t caught by Shawn Rettstatt, Judy Blumberg, Galit Chait, or Kristen Fraser (some of the callers in Dallas and Lake Placid).

The issue is the design of the element. It’s clearly designed to be a combination spin, but during the change of feet only Tsarevski changes feet. Flores stays on the same spinning foot, and instead uses her free leg to push into the 2nd part of the spin. Because he changes feet while she doesn’t, they don’t meet the definition of a combination dance spin. They’re also no longer performing a dance spin as he changed feet and she touched down with her free foot. Once that happened, they’re in the “exit” phase of the element, so the panel stops counting features.

By the time Tsarevski changes feet and Flores touches down with her free foot, they had only achieved a level 1 Dance Spin, so that’s all they got credit for, and just ended up having a very intricate exit phase.

What boggles my mind is the multitude of failures that occurred. Their coach, Dostatni, as a caller who has called the Olympics, should have known better. So should have Rettstatt, a member of the ISU technical committee! The other members of the technical panels in Dallas and Lake Placid too! For Flores & Tsarevski, not getting a Level 4 cost them a gold medal, and they have some of the biggest names in terms Ice Dance Officials to blame.
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Coaches should use this opportunity to complain about how ridiculous the rules have become. If these 2 couldn’t even figure them out, how can anyone else?
 
sap5 said:
Coaches should use this opportunity to complain about how ridiculous the rules have become. If these 2 couldn’t even figure them out, how can anyone else?
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That also isn't a hard rule to keep track of. It's a change foot combination spin, which means that both have to change feet.

That's precisely why everybody was so surprised at them getting it wrong. It's such a rudimentary feature that most people don't even look at it.
 
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Yeah honestly, both of these things are not complicated and shouldn't have happened. Watching K/A do their character step live, when they went down on their knees I thought 'wait what'? Because I knew they'd already done the the slide, and I was pretty sure you can't do a double knee slide otherwise. If I knew that, someone who hasn't even read the rules, their coaches absolutely should have. Apparently it didn't even occur to anyone involved that it might be a problem, and to check the rulebook.

And I didn't know the spin rules, but when I listened to the explanation on the Flutzes and Waxels podcast, it was pretty clear and simple. The rule is not complicated.
 
If the rules are not complicated, then why are tech specialists screwing them up? Something isn't adding up here.
 
Colonel Green said:
Because they botched simple details. Mistakes happen.
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The issue may not be the rules per say. Many of these professionals are simply creatives. They just get carried away in the moment of the "feels" from a piece. Following the rules will take out the air, it is reduced to another set of elements. So thankfully they have these events.....
 
I noticed the ISU bios no longer list the rhythms the teams chose for the RD. Sometimes it is hard to tell by their skating. :shuffle:
 
I wish K/A’s team hadn’t gone down the hip hop route for their RD. K/A is doing well with it, but I just don’t think the music fits them stylistically. My vision for their RD would be along the lines of the Cure’s “Pictures of You” (it’s 86 bpm which fits the tempo for the pattern dance sequence) and “Just Like Heaven” (jazz rhythm) for the other part of the program.
 
In anticipation of the senior international season properly kicking off this week I was rewatching some old programmes from S/K when I realised that if you look at the NHK 2016 ice dance field now - 4 teams there have been world champions (V/M, P/C, C/L, S/K). I think this really will be a final season of having such decorated teams - so I'm going to try and absorb and enjoy that talent and experience and not get too annoyed about poor music choices!
 
sap5 said:
But now is their chance to rely on makeup and a lot of tongue.
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Touché. However even setting aside my disdain for disco,I still maintain this British team is overrated. Their programs are appallingly open and highly dependent on flashy tricks and sexually charged slide maneuvers. Additionally,I believe they may be one of the most mismatched and unbalanced partnership since Fusar-Poli+Margaglio—his skating abilities are clearly far superior to hers.

However,I would love nothing more to be proven wrong this season. The sport functions better when the British field a strong team.

-BB
 
With Nebelhorn next week, the >60 point RD scores so far from would-be qualifiers:

Garabedian & Proulx-Senecal - 68.80 (LPIDI)
Taschlerova & Taschler - 68.45 (Lombardia)
Turkkila & Versluis - 67.26 (Lombardia)
Harris & Chan - 64.75 (LPIDI)
Min & Eaton - 62.63 (LPIDI)
Yanovskaya & Lukacs - 60.81 (Lombardia)

We won't be seeing Kazakova & Reviya before Nebelhorn, but I'd say they've earned default consideration in the top 4. The Armenians, Czechs and Finns all have a couple of points' separation from the others in the low 60s.

Italy and Great Britain look very unlikely to qualify their possible second dance spots.
 
I would guess Italy will try to push Portesi Peroni/Chrastecky in the next quad given how they went from being a junior team most didn't take notice to scoring 60 in their senior debut.

However, unlike in the past, they have not an obviously ready new couple behind their about-to-retire top dancers.
Faiella/Scali, Cappellini/Lanotte and Guignard/Fabbri were already in top 15 when Fusar Poli/Margaglio, Faiella/Scali and Cappellini/Lanotte retired.
 
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The RD music combinations at the Russian Test skates were beyond interesting. I LOVE Z/G’s RD, but not I’m not so sure about the khakis costumes.

M/B should use another Peter Gabriel song like Big Time and/or Sledgehammer rather than the Black Eyed Peas song for some more song cohesion and avoid having a nepotistic Boom Boom Pow battle with D/S.

Love the energy from K/B especially in the “It’s Raining Men,” but I’m not so sure about the song choices together for the RD. I had so hoped they would have picked Paula Abdul’s “Rush Rush” for the pattern dance and then “Opposites Attract” for the second part of the program. In my fantasy world, I can totally see Bazin as MC Skat Cat (Opposites Attract) and Keanu/Jim Stark (Rush Rush) and Khuda as Paula. They could easily get some of the choreography from the music videos. I may start a petition for this.
 
I very much liked Hurtado & Khaliavin's RD.

Don't know what was up with his shirt, but her attitude was fabulous & he tried.
 
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