The Dance Hall 5: Ice Dance Fans 2017-2018

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My Essay:

After Skate America, I said that I saw the Shibs’ FD as being very personal, but that I didn’t have time to write the essay explaining why right then. (Better late than never!) Since that time, the program has gone through a transformation of sorts so it didn’t feel right to comment while the material was still developing. And usually I try to keep my Shib-related commentary to a minimum outside their fan thread because, of course, it can feel excessive to always talk about your favorite team in a more general forum.

But I also think there is validity in hearing from the perspective of people who follow a particular team closely. You notice more of the details because you rewatch the programs. You follow the development of the programs throughout the season. And you follow the development of the athletes’ career & body of work.

Which is why I wanted to post about Maia & Alex’s FD here. Because I think there are elements of this program that you see in a different light if you have followed the career of this team. (Plus, I have posted positive stuff about pretty nearly every other team this season so it is definitely Maia & Alex’s turn).

To me, Paradise is about dreams. And it isn’t at all generic, as someone commented prior to SA, which led to my initial response. This program is about Maia & Alex’s dreams specifically. And very clearly.

Maia’s dream at first. To be a figure skater. Which is reflected in the lyrics. “When she was just a girl . . .” And that dream became Alex’s dream as well. A shared dream, which was—at first—all optimism. The program begins with the dance spin. When I think of Maia & Alex’s debut FD at the 2011 Worlds, that is the element I remember. The dance spin was the element that made them stand out to me as world class. Of course, the spin needs to be first in the program. At that point in their career, everything ahead looked so easy. Two steps away from gold and so young. Like their dreams. Next we have the step sequence, together. Because at this point the dream belongs to both of them.

And then the naïve butterfly in the song—Maia’s dream—is crushed beneath the wheel, as the lyrics say. This is the obstacle in the program. It is why the program works, the same way a story works. And the obstacle is much bigger than moving down in the rankings, which is exactly what happened after 2011. But I think it is also what Alex posted about after the team event. All the critiques, doubt, and questioning that comes when a dance team moves down in the rankings. What dance team has ever lost a spot at Nationals or internationally without being told that they have maxed out on their potential and should split up or switch coaches or don’t have the goods to be great? All the obstacles that athletes face when they are growing up, facing injuries, learning how to deal with the pressure of senior competition or defending a position.

This is when we have the “pop-up” lift. The beginning and ending have been altered to reflect the mood & the lyric “stuck in reverse” has been added to Paradise. But the pop up portion of the lift was a highlight element for the Shibs during the time period of their career in which they were struggling. It is followed by the lift in which she flies around and around him. The revolving part of their career. When it seems like you are just spinning in circles and getting nowhere. But she’s flying because she’s the butterfly. The dream is still there for them. And she holds on to him because they hold onto each other. That is how a dance team gets through the tough years when nothing goes right.

And that brings us to the “Fix You” portion of the program. It’s there because the 2015-2016 season was an integral part of the development of Maia & Alex’s dreams. That is the redemption section. The year when they decided to start taking creative control of their material, perform to music of their choice, and perform the most difficult twizzle sequence in the world. They decided to take risks and fight to climb the podium their way. And that is represented with the twizzle sequence and the rotational lift from that season.

Followed by the final footwork sequence in Paradise, which is really about realizing their dream. That this is how they reach Paradise. By staying together. By embracing their own strengths. And by being themselves. Which culminates in flight with the choreographic lift. I love the flight motif throughout the program. Positions representing flight are all through the program. The added exit from their dance spin. The position in the circling lift in the middle. The position in the choreo lift at the end.

It’s intriguing that the final element of the program is now the one with her down on one knee. Why, do you suppose? What have they realized about themselves that makes that the final element.

I’m sure there are many other layers to the program that I don’t see and/or are significant to Maia & Alex. But I thought maybe it would not hurt to share the significance I do see within the program. I enjoy Bobrova & Soloviev’s program even more than I did initially this season because I have read the description of the story from a fan who follows them closely. Perhaps someone else on the Dance Hall may enjoy Maia & Alex’s more if they can see what I see in Paradise.
 
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Dobre said:
My Essay:

After Skate America, I said that I saw the Shibs’ FD as being very personal, but that I didn’t have time to write the essay explaining why right then. (Better late than never!) Since that time, the program has gone through a transformation of sorts so it didn’t feel right to comment while the material was still developing. And usually I try to keep my Shib-related commentary to a minimum outside their fan thread because, of course, it can feel excessive to always talk about your favorite team in a more general forum.

But I also think there is validity in hearing from the perspective of people who follow a particular team closely. You notice more of the details because you rewatch the programs. You follow the development of the programs throughout the season. And you follow the development of the athletes’ career & body of work.

Which is why I wanted to post about Maia & Alex’s FD here. Because I think there are elements of this program that you see in a different light if you have followed the career of this team. (Plus, I have posted positive stuff about pretty nearly every other team this season so it is definitely Maia & Alex’s turn).

To me, Paradise is about dreams. And it isn’t at all generic, as someone commented prior to SA, which led to my initial response. This program is about Maia & Alex’s dreams specifically. And very clearly.

Maia’s dream at first. To be a figure skater. Which is reflected in the lyrics. “When she was a little girl . . .” And that dream became Alex’s dream as well. A shared dream, which was—at first—all optimism. The program begins with the dance spin. When I think of Maia & Alex’s debut FD at the 2011 Worlds, that is the element I remember. The dance spin was the element that made them stand out to me as world class. Of course, the spin needs to be first in the program. At that point in their career, everything ahead looked so easy. Two steps away from gold and so young. Like their dreams. Next we have the step sequence, together. Because at this point the dream belongs to both of them.

And then the naïve butterfly in the song—Maia’s dream—is crushed beneath the wheel, as the lyrics say. This is the obstacle in the program. It is why the program works, the same way a story works. And the obstacle is much bigger than moving down in the rankings, which is exactly what happened after 2011. But I think it is is also what Alex posted about after the team event. All the critiques, doubt, and questioning that comes when a dance team moves down in the rankings. What dance team has ever lost a spot at Nationals or internationally without being told that they have maxed out on their potential and should split up or switch coaches or don’t have the goods to be great? All the obstacles that athletes face when they are growing up, facing injuries, learning how to deal with the pressure of senior competition or defending a position.

This is when we have the “pop-up” lift. The beginning and ending have been altered to reflect the mood & the lyric “stuck in reverse” has been added to Paradise. But the pop up portion of the lift was a highlight element for the Shibs during the time period of their career in which they were struggling. It is followed by the lift in which she flies around and around him. The revolving part of their career. When it seems like you are just spinning in circles and getting nowhere. But she’s flying because she’s the butterfly. The dream is still there for them. And she holds on to him because they hold onto each other. That is how a dance team gets through the tough years when nothing goes right.

And that brings us to the “Fix You” portion of the program. It’s there because the 2015-2016 season was an integral part of the development of Maia & Alex’s dreams. That is the redemption section. The year when they decided to start taking creative control of their material, perform to music of their choice, and perform the most difficult twizzle sequence in the world. They decided to take risks and fight to climb the podium their way. And that is represented with the twizzle sequence and the rotational lift from that season.

Followed by the final footwork sequence in Paradise, which is really about realizing their dream. That this is how they reach Paradise. By staying together. By embracing their own strengths. And by being themselves. Which culminates in flight with the choreographic lift. I love the flight motif throughout the program. Positions representing flight are all through the program. The added exit from their dance spin. The position in the circling lift in the middle. The position in the choreo lift at the end.

It’s intriguing that the final element of the program is now the one with her down on one knee. Why, do you suppose? What have they realized about themselves that makes that the final element.

I’m sure there are many other layers to the program that I don’t see and/or are significant to Maia & Alex. But I thought maybe it would not hurt to share the significance I do see within the program. I enjoy Bobrova & Soloviev’s program even more than I did initially this season because I have read the description of the story from a fan who follows them closely. Perhaps someone else on the Dance Hall may enjoy Maia & Alex’s more if they can see what I see in Paradise.
Click to expand...
D*mn, it's almost 3 in the morning, I have school at 7 and you're already making me cry? When the free dances haven't even started? Thanks a lot.
But seriously, this is really beauty, I never saw it that way. Thanks for the insight :saint:
 
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Good heaven, I hadn't looked at the actual protocols yet. Now I wish I hadn't.

Papadakis/Cizeron get NINETEEN 10.00s for a program that was very obviously a bit off and not their best? As even they themselves admitted in the press conference?? Also they get +3s for a twizzle sequence with obvious problems?

I'm sorry, but the overscoring of this team has reached epic proportions. I like them, and they are great and fabulously gifted and all. But they are also human, they make mistakes, and they are not THAT much better than everyone else.

Sorry for the rant. But this is really getting ridiculous. :soapbox: :scream::scream:
 
clairecloutier said:
Good heaven, I hadn't looked at the actual protocols yet. Now I wish I hadn't.

Papadakis/Cizeron get NINETEEN 10.00s for a program that was very obviously a bit off and not their best? As even they themselves admitted in the press conference?? Also they get +3s for a twizzle sequence with obvious problems?

I'm sorry, but the overscoring of this team has reached epic proportions. I like them, and they are great and fabulously gifted and all. But they are also human, they make mistakes, and they are not THAT much better than everyone else.

Sorry for the rant. But this is really getting ridiculous. :soapbox: :scream::scream:
Click to expand...


P/C have been propped up by the judges so many times these past two seasons it is indeed getting crazy.
 
clairecloutier said:
Good heaven, I hadn't looked at the actual protocols yet. Now I wish I hadn't.

Papadakis/Cizeron get NINETEEN 10.00s for a program that was very obviously a bit off and not their best? As even they themselves admitted in the press conference?? Also they get +3s for a twizzle sequence with obvious problems?

I'm sorry, but the overscoring of this team has reached epic proportions. I like them, and they are great and fabulously gifted and all. But they are also human, they make mistakes, and they are not THAT much better than everyone else.

Sorry for the rant. But this is really getting ridiculous. :soapbox: :scream::scream:
Click to expand...

I completely agree. It’s a farce.
 
I doubt casual fans will pick up on anything other than falls. And in this case, the wardrobe malfunction.

If one's reaction to Gabriella's poise in dealing with this is to whine about the scores, the judges, or Gailhaguet, that really does not reflect well on them. Save it for another day.
 
AnaBM said:
The worst part is that we, as usual fans, are somehow used to it, but just imagine what some people who just got into skating may (and are already) saying :wall:. Instead of helping Gaby and Guillaume, judges are not making ice dance look pretty.
Click to expand...

Casual fans got a rude reality for check for sure about the judging in ice dance. People are livid about the scoring on twitter casual fans and non-casual fans alike
 
Zemgirl said:
If one's reaction to Gabriella's poise in dealing with this is to whine about the scores, the judges, or Gailhaguet, that really does not reflect well on them. Save it for another day.
Click to expand...

Really? No discussion of the scores should be allowed today because there was a wardrobe malfunction? :rofl:

Zemgirl said:
The people who are livid are ubers
Click to expand...

And what do you call those demanding a moratorium on discussion of scores? :rofl:
 
Zemgirl said:
I doubt casual fans will pick up on anything other than falls. And in this case, the wardrobe malfunction.

If one's reaction to Gabriella's poise in dealing with this is to whine about the scores, the judges, or Gailhaguet, that really does not reflect well on them. Save it for another day.
Click to expand...

Yes because God forbid some skating fans want the scoring to actually reflect what happens on the ice during the performance. :rolleyes: :blah:
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
There’s a lot of reaction in social media by casual Olympic viewers who thought the scoring was a joke as well.
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Of course. As there was people thinking the scoring in the Team event for Men and Ladies was a joke too. This is nothing really new. Switch the language, you get totally different reactions of course.
But truly, I'd advise you all to rewatch it since it was pretty strong, not the outrage people would like it to be. Ignore the fact she has that malfunction, you'll see it. You'll even see why they lost a level in the Pst and were rightfully judged for that. We've seen far worse scoring for far worse performances. There's almost a 2-point difference.
I'm happy that there is quite the support for Gaby actually. From everyone. That is very kind.
 
I’m just saying it does nothing to ignore that there are a lot of people talking about the scoring which was the point since people are trying to pretend it is not happening. Doing what you can to stop the conversation because you don’t like it, especially here when people do know what they’re talking about, isn’t the most honorable trait.

Oh and the convo about the men’s scoring is still ongoing and made news and will be discussed some time because it’s a big part of the quad heavy TES imbalance discussion.
 
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I’m just saying it does nothing to ignore that there are a lot of people talking about the scoring which was the point since people are trying to pretend it is not happening. Doing what you can to stop the conversation because you don’t like it, especially here when people do know what they’re talking about, isn’t the most honorable trait.

Oh and the convo about the men’s scoring is still ongoing and made news and will be discussed some time because it’s a big part of the quad heavy TES imbalance discussion.
Click to expand...
I'm obviously not trying to do so, I just stated my opinion. I don't know that the scoring of the men made news because we don't get that in Europe (barring Russia). It does not have that much meaning here clearly.

But this is Ice Dancing and people will complain a lot, let's not forget that this is primetime in North America. European skaters won't have that much of a defense, and if you take teams like Shibs or V/M that are massively popular, it's game over. I first saw all the comments : "overscored" ! And I had to wait until Europe woke up to see a balance.
 
I don't know how anybody could truly objectively think P/C deserve any 10.00s for that performance. I'm not just speaking as a "North American" in a NA v. European debate that this is trying to be turned into as I prefer P/C's SD to V/M's for enjoyment purposes.
 
Both V/M and P/C get the benefit of the doubt when they bobble on twizzles. It drives me crazy, but I don't think it's the result of bloc judging. I personally would have docked P/C more on twizzles. But I didn't have a huge issue with PCS, because as brilliantly as V/M skated, I despise that SD.

And for the record, while I prefer H/D to S/S, I thought S/S deserved their edge on PCS last night.

If I had to rank who of the top 3 teams would have my favorite SD prior to seeing them, I would have gone V/M, P/C, and S/S. Instead, it's the exact opposite order.
 
I would be able to handle the PCS difference (not that I personally agree with it), but what gets me is P/C getting all +2 and +3 on the twizzles. IMO that should at most be just left at 0 GOE, since she did an extra turn - a very noticeable mistake. 0 GOE would bring them down about 1.3 points overall, which is about where I think they should be. Even if a few judges gave them +1, they'd be about a point lower overall.

What bothers me is that now, no matter who wins, there'll be an asterisk beside their name.
* Tessa and Scott only won because Gabby's dress came undone so they couldn't perform their best in the SD
* Gabby and Guillaume only won because the judges felt sympathetic after the disaster in the SD, so they were overmarked in the FD
 
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