The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

[layman]

The fact that Evan seemed more out of shape than Maddy is what made me wonder whether injury/illness was a factor.

Chock/Bates performances at Skate America looked like it was the first time they had ever skated those programs. Calling the programs "half-baked" is being generous.

I think the fact that Chock and Bates did not do a Challenger Event (as they did last season) was an important clue.

As others have pointed out, that camp never talk about injuries/illnesses (until after the fact) but with Evan being this unprepared, it would seem logical that he has been dealing with something that's taken a bite out of his training time.

 

[Colonel Green]

Chock/Bates performances at Skate America looked like it was the first time they had ever skated those programs. Calling the programs "half-baked" is being generous.

I think the fact that Chock and Bates did not do a Challenger Event (as they did last season) was an important clue.

As others have pointed out, that camp never talk about injuries/illnesses (until after the fact) but with Evan being this unprepared, it would seem logical that he has been dealing with something that's taken a bite out of his training time.

I don’t think it’s an injury. They spent much of the summer doing shows (in Japan, in particular), and don’t appear to have been doing normal seasonal preparation in that time. Understandable after the Olympics (and with their engagement) that they wanted time off, it just means that they started late for the season.

 

[Peepsquick]

A lot of their natural competitors have gone also ... the new situation might not feel as energizing as people think.

 

[Wyliefan]

Madi said somewhere that they were traveling nonstop and just didn't have time to do a Challenger. I suppose that includes touring and maybe also vacation, I don't know.

 

[Peepsquick]

I just watched Muramoto and Takahashi at the Denis Ten Memorial and found their RD energetic and engaging, if a little chaotic.
Let's see how it develops during the season.

 

[Debbie S]

Madi said somewhere that they were traveling nonstop and just didn't have time to do a Challenger. I suppose that includes touring and maybe also vacation, I don't know.

They were touring/ISU Congress/vacation until mid-June, then did The Ice tour in Japan at the end of July. It's understandable that they weren't ready for a Challenger. The programs still need some work, which they have acknowledged.

They did look better in practice than in comp...they likely just need to get more competitive mileage on the programs.

 

[layman]

A lot of their natural competitors have gone also ... the new situation might not feel as energizing as people think.

I wonder (with the knowledge that their biggest competitors were gone) if they thought they could just coast this season, show up unprepared and just be handed titles because they were the "next in line," so to speak.

The risk with that strategy though is the assumption that while they were resting, the rest of the field would be resting too (they clearly were not). Maybe Skate America will be a wake up call for Chock/Bates that they can't take anything for granted and if they rest too long, they risk being passed by.

With that mistake filled Rhythm Dance, I would not have put Chock/Bates in 1st place like the judges did. That was reputation judging in action. I think it would have been better (fairer to everyone) to judge what actually happened on the Ice and let Chock/Bates lose Skate America. I think that would have provided a much clearer lesson to them and would have been fairer to the other competitors.

 

[Debbie S]

I wonder (with the knowledge that their biggest competitors were gone) if they thought they could just coast this season, show up unprepared and just be handed titles because they were the "next in line," so to speak.

I don't think any competitive skater/team ever thinks that.

 

[Peepsquick]

I wonder (with the knowledge that their biggest competitors were gone) if they thought they could just coast this season, show up unprepared and just be handed titles because they were the "next in line," so to speak.

The risk with that strategy though is the assumption that while they were resting, the rest of the field would be resting too (they clearly were not). Maybe Skate America will be a wake up call for Chock/Bates that they can't take anything for granted and if they rest too long, they risk being passed by.

With that mistake filled Rhythm Dance, I would not have put Chock/Bates in 1st place like the judges did. That was reputation judging in action. I think it would have been better (fairer to everyone) to judge what actually happened on the Ice and let Chock/Bates lose Skate America. I think that would have provided a much clearer lesson to them and would have been fairer to the other competitors.

I would not put it down to arrogance but more to post OG slump...

 

[Impromptu]

It sounds more like both C/B and Gilles/Poirier needed some time to reset before making any decisions (and with both teams, that included personal life issues - C/B getting engaged to each other, Piper getting engaged to her long time boyfriend). Having a late start doesn't mean unmotivated or coasting.

I'd rather see both teams looking slightly rough, but happy to be out there, than two well trained, but emotionally exhausted teams. Both teams have been around long enough to know what is needed to get through a long season and how to peak for championship events, and maybe this time around, that meant starting later.

 

[litenkyckling]

Programmes aside, I think what c/b were missing at SA was any fire or fight. They didn’t look like they were enjoying themselves.

 

[Lara111]

Programmes aside, I think what c/b were missing at SA was any fire or fight. They didn’t look like they were enjoying themselves.

Especially Bates. He looked like he is done with this sport and maybe just doing it for her

 

[Skate Talker]

In their interview with Andrea I noticed Madison's voice sounded quite rough, as if she was ill. Perhaps Evan was sick prior to the competition which depleted their energy and didn't leave them feeling too bright. (Or perhaps not - just a possibility).

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I have no idea if it means anything, but Evan was masked and Madi was not when I bumped into them coming out of the dining hall at the arena.

 

[VGThuy]

Finally got around to watching some of Skate America (it's been a busy weekend for me), and watching Chock/Bates...that RD is a dud. They're already dressed for something festive and Latin. Just change the music. That'll do wonders for their motivation. I love Bowie too but I never liked that song and it's just a dud on the ice. Don't go for Virtue/Moir non-Latin Latin. Not many teams can pull that off, and they aren't one of them. Her dress is already fantastic, don't waste it. Evan needs something colorful to better match her fun.

As for the FD, I like the concept and the music, but I kept imagining Hubbell/Donohue's beautiful "Tron" FD with their deep curves and power really carrying that sort of music. That said, H/D's FD didn't really click until Worlds (and with that awesome costume/style change!). I was more surprised that for a Ice Dance center that is known for really maximizing their dance vocabulary and making the most out of the music (comparatively), this dance looks very undercooked in terms of dance and image. The team could do such more with the music.

I also don't like when the first clear element of a FD is the footwork sequence and although their first element isn't technically the footwork sequence, they start the Choreographic Assisted Jump element doing what looks like a footwork sequence in a classic face-to-face hold (like that they're using holds!) that isn't very exciting as an "opener" for the FD and then go into the assisted jumps for no reason. I hate to say it as an ice dance tech appreciator, but maybe more...open dance leading to the assisted jumps to grab our attention would work better.

I wouldn't write them off yet. It's a long season, and things can happen. But they can't afford too many missteps to make more people write them off or to make those who have already written off more and more entrenched into their thinking. If the audience is feeling that...the judges will start to as well. But then, we also like surprises but if they want to win Worlds, they need to have the energy and backing behind them. Ice Dance hardly rewards surprise excellent performances/skates the night of the FD of the biggest competition of the year...with some exceptions. They're lucky they don't have the Olympic medalists to contend with, but if they start losing ground to Hawayek/Baker...

 

[layman]

I just watched Muramoto and Takahashi at the Denis Ten Memorial and found their RD energetic and engaging, if a little chaotic.
Let's see how it develops during the season.

I just watched their RD too and I agree with you 100%. The rough edges in their dancing don't bother me. The fact that he lacks the polish and skill set of dancers who have been dancing for a lot longer than he has, does not bother me. I just love the connection and the chemistry between the two of them (something sorely lacking in many a more technically advanced team). Muramoto and Takahashi are a team with pizazz! I love their dancing! I hope they stick around for a long time because they bring something unique and exciting to the sport.

 

[chantilly]

Especially Bates. He looked like he is done with this sport and maybe just doing it for her

 

[chantilly]

I honestly think the criticisms are half baked and overwrought.

I’ve never been their biggest fans and I know they had some rough skates but I see there is definitely something there.

Their retraction and stretch of movement in the FD was beautiful.

I think the RD is fine.

They’re just not ready yet.

But I don’t get the over the top criticisms and reactions

However I must admit I’m finding this starting of the next quad one of the least interesting in a while despite some stand outs.

I’m pretty bored so far to be honest.

I however don’t watch juniors. It’s enough for me to follow seniors and I would get too worked up with juniors in the past that when they transferred to seniors I was almost invariably disappointed so I gave up.

Hopefully as the season moves on I’ll get more excited. But so far it’s a big pile of meh.

 

[Andora]

I honestly think the criticisms are half baked and overwrought.

I’ve never been their biggest fans and I know they had some rough skates but I see there is definitely something there.

Their retraction and stretch of movement in the FD was beautiful.

I think the RD is fine.

They’re just not ready yet.

But I don’t get the over the top criticisms and reactions

However I must admit I’m finding this starting of the next quad one of the least interesting in a while despite some stand outs.

I’m pretty bored so far to be honest.

I however don’t watch juniors. It’s enough for me to follow seniors and I would get too worked up with juniors in the past that when they transferred to seniors I was almost invariably disappointed so I gave up.

Hopefully as the season moves on I’ll get more excited. But so far it’s a big pile of meh.

I agree re: C&B. I think their RD has incredible potential if they skate well. I think it stands out, it befits a top team, and I like it more than most RDs currently. But then I find Latin years to be mostly misses. I do think their FD could be great, could be bust, but it solidifies my opinion that they would kill a Florence & The Machine program.

For some reason, their Skate America experience reminds me how they beat V&M in the FD at Skate Canada 2016. It wasn't even V&M's first competition, so it was pretty surprising. But it underlines, for me, how different things can look from beginning of the season to the end.

I'm not bored with the start of the season, though. I'm sure it's partly the lack of Russian skating throwing off everything, but with so many new faces on the scene and not a ton of favourites out there, it's nice to just enjoy skating.

 

[skategal]

I’m waiting for a team to really take advantage of this unique competitive situation this season and really BRING IT!

H/B got close to that last week.

Hoping for some surprises in the upcoming competitions.

 

[sap5]

Finally got around to watching some of Skate America (it's been a busy weekend for me), and watching Chock/Bates...that RD is a dud. They're already dressed for something festive and Latin. Just change the music. That'll do wonders for their motivation. I love Bowie too but I never liked that song and it's just a dud on the ice. Don't go for Virtue/Moir non-Latin Latin. Not many teams can pull that off, and they aren't one of them.

Tbh, even Virtue Moir didn't skate non-Latin Latin. "Sympathy for the Devil" is a samba; it was purposely written on a samba rhythm. Then they segued to the acoustic version of Hotel California, which the Eagles played as a rumba in the 90s, when bands like the Gipsy Kings were all the rage.

I haven't had a chance yet to watch Skate America, but I'm definitely looking forward to it after all this discussion!

 

[skatfan]

Nice article about Cesanek and Yehorov:

Cesanek and Yehorov to Bring Joy to the Ice at Skate Canada International - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

The offseason was filled with unprecedented challenges for U.S. ice dance team Molly Cesanek and her partner Yehor Yehorov.

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

 

[miffy]

Not really sure where this should go but Olivia Smart is joining Dancing on Ice.

I’d watch if she does a pro number with Mark Hanretty

Dancing on Ice 2023 confirms professional line-up and welcomes new Olympic skater

The other pros have been announced, too.

www.digitalspy.com

 

[Bouffantrex]

The speculative excuse-making here for Chock/Bates is amusing. They had a bad competition, and their marginal programs (at least in their current state) did absolutely nothing to lift them up. It's not the end of the world, and certainly not necessary to frantically invent excuses for the disappointing performances.

Having said that, I am very much rooting for them to significantly improve by Nationals (and hopefully ditch that RD), as the thought of that middle-aged Italian team winning Worlds is unappealing to me.

 

[litenkyckling]

Not really sure where this should go but Olivia Smart is joining Dancing on Ice.

I’d watch if she does a pro number with Mark Hanretty

Dancing on Ice 2023 confirms professional line-up and welcomes new Olympic skater

The other pros have been announced, too.

www.digitalspy.com

I feel like Olivia could be a real star if more people knew who she was - she’s already got great personal style so I can see this being her opening to whatever she wants in the UK whether it be influencing, TV whatever she wants.

 

[VGThuy]

The speculative excuse-making here for Chock/Bates is amusing. They had a bad competition, and their marginal programs (at least in their current state) did absolutely nothing to lift them up. It's not the end of the world, and certainly not necessary to frantically invent excuses for the disappointing performances.

Having said that, I am very much rooting for them to significantly improve by Nationals (and hopefully ditch that RD), as the thought of that middle-aged Italian team winning Worlds is unappealing to me.

Chock/Bates aren't much younger. In fact, Evan is the same age as Charlene (actually he's older by half a year), who is only over a year younger than Marco. Madison is only three years younger than Evan and is thirty-years-old.

 

[Colonel Green]

The speculative excuse-making here for Chock/Bates is amusing.

It’s not speculative that they took less time to prepare. They told us that before the competition was even held, hence why they didn’t do a Challenger.

 

[Belsornia]

Not really sure where this should go but Olivia Smart is joining Dancing on Ice.

I really thought Olivia was hinting that she'd got a new competitive partner. And her new partner is some random British 'celeb'. (I hope it's Nile Wilson. Or Ekin-Su.)

 

[Wyliefan]

I however don’t watch juniors. It’s enough for me to follow seniors and I would get too worked up with juniors in the past that when they transferred to seniors I was almost invariably disappointed so I gave up.

I know how you feel, believe me, but this year you're missing out. Junior dance has been far more exciting than senior so far this season. I know that statistically some of these teams will break up or retire or just not do well after the transition, and I'm not looking forward to that, but just at the moment there are so many good ones!

 

[chantilly]

I know how you feel, believe me, but this year you're missing out. Junior dance has been far more exciting than senior so far this season. I know that statistically some of these teams will break up or retire or just not do well after the transition, and I'm not looking forward to that, but just at the moment there are so many good ones!

Yeah that’s what seems to be going on.
Still I’m going to hold off this year
It’s hard enough to find senior accessible content