Ted Barton interviews Eteri Tutberidze

[Ananas Astra]

When did she say that

During Russian Nationals. You might have heard of this competition.

 

[Ananas Astra]

And: Love her or hate her. Eteri Tutberidze does have the results.
Are her athletes super happy and are allowed to eat at McDonald's all the time?
No.
And that is why she raises Olympic Champions, and McLeod does not.

 

[Polaris]

And: Love her or hate her. Eteri Tutberidze does have the results.
Are her athletes super happy and are allowed to eat at McDonald's all the time?
No.
And that is why she raises Olympic Champions, and McLeod does not.

Hanyu eats McD whenever he wants as well as chips and soda and he does just fine.

There are better methods that can be used to achieve equal or better results.

 

[canbelto]

Hanyu eats McD whenever he wants as well as chips and soda and he does just fine.

There are better methods that can be used to achieve equal or better results.

Orser is a very different kind of coach than Eteri. Not just in style. But Orser takes students who already have very strong technique and then he packages them, prepares them, polishes them, in some cases reworks them. He also makes no bones about wanting results ... fast. Some students who didn't have that strong technique when they went to him did not do well with him. Adam Rippon comes to mind. Tursy is another.

Eteri takes girls who are very young, and molds them into juniors, and then seniors. That process is very different, and likely to be much harsher, as students have to deal with puberty, with growing bodies, with technical weaknesses. Coaches that do this from-the-ground-up coaching often have a reputation for being very harsh. Frank Carroll in the U.S. is one who had a reputation for being too harsh for most students to handle. A lot of the Christopher Bowman problems with Carroll had to do with Bowman's tendency to gain weight. There are some stories about Carroll and weight and his track record with students and eating disorders is not good either.

Not saying everything Eteri does is justified. The Yulia powdered diet story is horrific. And some of the training videos are hard to watch. She definitely believes in wielding the stick more than the carrot. But then again, as I said, studnets who go to her know she's like this, and still go to her.

 

[DimaToe]

I would not call Eteri 'transparent.' She is formidable and a master of the poker face. She is also less willing than most coaches to lessen a skater's heavy heart when they haven't skated well. Eteri is also a master of the disapproving dismissive look when her skaters come off the ice fearful of facing her when they've made mistakes.

Sure Eteri is up-front about her tough requirements and expectations. But if you think that equals transparency, oh well. It's more like strict, demanding, controlling, and in-your-face, no-holds-barred manipulative. And sure it's working for Eteri, for a variety of reasons. It's not particularly working well for most of her skaters long term though.

I am not exactly team Tutberidze, but do you have actual evidence that supports such claim?

 

[Polaris]

Orser is a very different kind of coach than Eteri. Not just in style. But Orser takes students who already have very strong technique and then he packages them, prepares them, polishes them, in some cases reworks them. He also makes no bones about wanting results ... fast. Some students who didn't have that strong technique when they went to him did not do well with him. Adam Rippon comes to mind. Tursy is another.

Not to go off track, but this isn't completely true. Fernandez, Cha, Gogolev (until now) are examples to the contrary.

I'm just saying that if a coach has to employ such draconian methods to make their skaters successful, something is wrong. Raf alluded to this in a recent interview.

 

[Japanfan]

Are her athletes super happy and are allowed to eat at McDonald's all the time?

Bold mine.

I'm bothered by the notion that a coach would have complete control over what an athlete can and cannot eat - I would think the athlete should be committed to following a diet/exercise plan on his her own.

I know that some coaches do have that much control, but consider the practice questionable.

And that is why she raises Olympic Champions, and McLeod does not.

Not really a fair comparison. Their are plenty of coaches who raise Olympic champions who are not cut from the same cloth as Eteri.

Hanyu eats McD whenever he wants as well as chips and soda and he does just fine.

Hanyu may be naturally very lean and not need to worry about his weight, which is not the case for all skaters.

There are better methods that can be used to achieve equal or better results.

Agreed.

 

[starrynight]

Are her athletes super happy and are allowed to eat at McDonald's all the time?
No.
And that is why she raises Olympic Champions, and McLeod does not.

I think there is middle ground between consuming a powder diet and eating McDonalds. Most regular civilians who want to follow healthy eating don’t eat it.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Didn't Alina say eating less can postpone puberty? I wonder where she would get something like that from...

 

[Japanfan]

Didn't Alina say eating less can postpone puberty? I wonder where she would get something like that from...

When a girl's body is starving for nutrients, the onset of menstruation may be delayed. Whether or not that actually postpones puberty, I don't know. But I don't think so.

 

[aftershocks]

- she has a "poker face" to hide extreme emotions and sensitivity. she had a tough life, and learned her lessons that for the outside world she needs to be tough. she had to start from scratch in Russia as a trainer, in a highly competitive, political environment with lots of dirty games from top coaches. she learned how to and survived, by merit...

You make some good points @Tinami Amori. And you surely know about Eteri's background much more than I do, even if you may not know her intimately. I'm going by the interaction I see between Eteri and her charges in the kiss 'n cry and at rinkside, and by what I've heard and what I've seen in clips of her training sessions with students. I have no doubt that Eteri had some hard knocks in her life which has made her tough. And she obviously does have emotions and sensitivities under the surface, as do most humans.

In any case, I always give credit where credit is due, if you read my posts carefully rather than centering on what you disagree with that I've commented on. So you can dismiss everything I said if you wish. I think it's clear that Eteri has had great success because of her fierce determination and drive, but that doesn't make everything she does perfect and unassailable. So while my views of Eteri may not be completely on target in all aspects, I think it's OTT to dismiss every criticism of Eteri you don't like as 'nonsense.' Eteri's methods are a mixed bag that have not necessarily worked for all of her charges, especially not long term.

But she makes no bones about the way she is. For instance she allows training documentaries and videos to be filmed where she is mercilessly berating tearful students. Parents can look at that, and decide whether they're comfortable sending their children to be coached by her. She also makes no bones about being extremely restrictive about weight.

Sure, but I still would not use the term 'transparent.' If you are speaking strictly about Eteri's coaching methods, I'd call her straightforward about what she expects of students, but that does not mean all of her methods are transparent. She cajoles and manipulates, and sometimes just as you said, she berates. The fact that she makes no bones about her harshness during training does not make her 'transparent.' Her personality and demeanor oftentimes appear inscrutable, because as Tinami indicated, Eteri has learned the necessity of being tough and purposely hiding any emotional sensitivities or softness she might possess. Whatever Eteri does reveal that might appear sensitive seems most likely to be what she allows herself to reveal purposely.

 

[aftershocks]

A lot of the Christopher Bowman problems with Carroll had to do with Bowman's tendency to gain weight.

Unless Carroll specifically told you this or spoke about it in an interview, how do you know? From what I've heard Carroll say about his relationship with Bowman, their difficult coaching relationship had more to do with Bowman's lack of discipline and the way Bowman would sometimes improvise during his programs. In addition, Carroll was not happy about Bowman sometimes being out of shape (whether from injury, weight gain from an undisciplined diet, or lack of putting in the training consistently due to off-ice distractions).

Because Carroll had trained Bowman from a young age, Carroll put up with a lot from him. Bowman himself spoke about how much he loved Carroll and how much he'd learned from him, and how much Carroll had put up with during their coach/student relationship. In the end, of course, Bowman's life and career fell apart due to his drug addiction problems. I also recall Carroll and others in the skating community marveling at how Bowman could often pull off programs during competition without having put in adequate training time, and with being somewhat out of shape physically. ETA: Not that Carroll exactly appreciated Bowman managing to compete in that manner!

Are [Eteri's] athletes super happy and are allowed to eat at McDonald's all the time? No.
And that is why she raises Olympic Champions, and McLeod does not.

That's very simplistic, but perhaps you are being facetious. It's surely not the only reason, and certainly not the major reason why McLeod has not raised Olympic champions and Eteri has.

I am not exactly team Tutberidze, but do you have actual evidence that supports such claim?

Sure I concede that this is my perception based on what I've seen during competitions. So of course, that's not enough information to make a definitive judgement across the board. I have seen Eteri appear to comfort some skaters, but usually in a sparing manner. Eteri is surely aware that browbeating skaters when they come off the ice after disappointing performances is not a good idea. Likely, Eteri is also selective about how she treats skaters who've made mistakes. It's possible that if Eteri feels the mistake was silly, she's less forgiving than if she feels the skater went out there with determination and gave it their all. I recall seeing Eteri give Polina Turskaya a dismissive look when she popped a jump during a competition. Then of course, Turskaya experienced a bone illness, and eventually switched to a different coach.

I think there is middle ground between consuming a powder diet and eating McDonalds. Most regular civilians who want to follow healthy eating don’t eat it.

Now, now, the McD's salads, fish sandwich and apple pie are more than palatable with at least some nutrient value. And although the french fries are not healthy, it's not going to kill anyone to indulge once in awhile, preferably with no salt. Forget about those 'not really beef' sandwiches though, and anything with bacon added.

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

My wife and me eat the Mc "Rib" when it is had at Mac Donald's hopefully it come's back soon. Yum! I wonder if Yuruzu Hanuy has a different favorite like the Flay O Fish? Also a good choice.

The posts about a women's body seem to "graphic" for a pubic web sight, may be I am mistaken but I think it is more NC-17 content.

I like this Ted much more then "Dave" from the loud homosexual you tube thing.

 

[Wyliefan]

I miss Sasha going on and on about steak and ice cream. Of course she was paid to do it (at least the steak part), but even so, it was refreshing from a skater!

 

[Tinami Amori]

When did she say that
"amateurish, American idiot who has no idea about figure skating" TAT was so spreading the hate against

TAT said it on TV, during commentary of Ladies Singles.

There are better methods that can be used to achieve equal or better results.

There is an easy solution, you or those who are willing to listen to you, use your methods to get better results. And Russians what they think is best. Fair enough?..

 

[Japanfan]

I miss Sasha going on and on about steak and ice cream.

What did she say about them specifically?

 

[Wyliefan]

Oh gosh, I can't remember exactly now. Just that she was a huge fan of both.

 

[Japanfan]

Oh gosh, I can't remember exactly now. Just that she was a huge fan of both.

Probably from afar. Sasha struck me as rather a control freak in terms of dieting and scheduling (i.e. going to bed while a birthday party she hosted carried on).

I remember her once commenting in the KnC about how a mistake she made was due to the two pounds she should have lost. I also remember her discussing how strict the diet was she followed - i.e. being allowed to eat x number of almonds for a snack at a certain time.

I also remember a fluff piece about her baking cookies for Christmas.

All in all, my impression is that she had disordered eating habits and enjoyed her favorite foods vicariously for the most part.

 

[soogar]

Thanks.

And asking again whether Boitano had more difficult technical content (just not really motivated to go hunt down the vids on You Tube, which may or may not be available).

I think they were the same except Order had a step out. He may have doubled a jump as well.

I watched their programs recently and think that under today's standards, Orser may have won because he had all these transitions. His program was a lot more interesting than Boitano's.

I remember watching 1988 on television and Brian Boitano looked so magestic and amazing. What's weird is that seeing him on youtube 30 years later, his performance was underwhelming. Lot of tightly landed jumps. It just wasn't as great as the first time around.

Having seen Brian perform live during his prime, his ice coverage and power was unmatched.

 

[soogar]

Probably from afar. Sasha struck me as rather a control freak in terms of dieting and scheduling (i.e. going to bed while a birthday party she hosted carried on).

I remember her once commenting in the KnC about how a mistake she made was due to the two pounds she should have lost. I also remember her discussing how strict the diet was she followed - i.e. being allowed to eat x number of almonds for a snack at a certain time.

I also remember a fluff piece about her baking cookies for Christmas.

All in all, my impression is that she had disordered eating habits and enjoyed her favorite foods vicariously for the most part.

I don't think that every athlete who watches their weight necessarily has disordered eating. She needs to be at a certain weight to perform well. Counting almonds is actually smart because it means that she is keeping track of her macros. Figure skaters aren't the only athletes who have to keep track of their macros. Those bodybuilders have to also time their nutrition to achieve the physique needed for shows.

 

[kwanfan1818]

IIRC, Orser left out or downgraded a jump because he thought he had enough.

That he lost to Hamilton in 1984 alone justified the abolition of competitive figures, IMO.

 

[Vagabond]

It just wasn't as great as the first time around.

Like so much else in life.

That he lost to Hamilton in 1984 alone justified the abolition of competitive figures, IMO.

 

[allezfred]

His program was a lot more interesting than Boitano's.

Are you sure you watched the right programmes?

 

[soogar]

Are you sure you watched the right programmes?

Oh yeah, watch Orser again. I really liked the Bolt but his program is loaded with footwork. Boitano had a lot of crossovers.

 

[canbelto]

Looking back the Battle of the Brians was one of the rare occasions when a highly touted rivalry actually lived up to its hype. Amazing competition. Looking back it also ushered in a new era in mens' skating, one that continues to this day, where difficult jumps and jump combinations are all-important.

 

[becca]

Hanyu eats McD whenever he wants as well as chips and soda and he does just fine.

There are better methods that can be used to achieve equal or better results.

Hanyu must be blessed with really good genes then. (He is mega skinny). However not every skater is. I don't think anorexia is the way to go. But I imagine most of these athletes DO have have to maintain a really healthy diet, and I suspect it's triple the case for women.

However I suspect there's ways to teach HEALTHY diet that doesn't starve the athlete.

 

[Japanfan]

I don't think that every athlete who watches their weight necessarily has disordered eating.

No. But concerns about weight and disordered eating are particularly common among young women, so it would follow that is particularly common among young women involved in an aesthetic sport where their bodies are constantly scrutinized and on display. Joan Ryan's Little Girls in Pretty Boxes: The Making and Breaking of Elite Gymnasts and Figure Skaters is one source that discusses the issue of eating disorders/disordered eating among gymnasts and figure skaters in particular. Katrine Bertine's All the Sundays Yet to Come is another - a first-person account of a figure skater struggling with an eating disorder.

And reports such as those about the powder diet only reinforce the perception of disordered eating in figure skating. Plus various skaters have shared their own struggles with food, like Jennifer Kirk, for one. Gabbie Daleman recently mentioned mental health and eating disorders in a Canadian TV interview.

However not every skater is. I don't think anorexia is the way to go. But I imagine most of these athletes DO have have to maintain a really healthy diet, and I suspect it's triple the case for women.

Are you saying that women need to maintain a healthy diet more than men do, or that they worry about it more than men do?

I would think that both male and female skaters need to be at a certain weight to perform their base (not too light, as well as not too heavy).

And I've always wondered if some lady skaters sacrifice power to maintain a less than ideal weight. Sasha Cohen's typical one or two mistake programs come to mind. As I mentioned earlier (in this thread or another), I once heard her blaming a mistake on two pounds she didn't lose when talking to Frank in the KnC. Maybe it was actually the opposite - less strength and power to several pounds too few.

However I suspect there's ways to teach HEALTHY diet that doesn't starve the athlete.

Megan Duhamel is doing just that with by blogging about her vegan diet, and I think she is involved in promoting that diet and advising skaters about how to eat healthy.

 

[becca]

No. But concerns about weight and disordered eating are particularly common among young women, so it would follow that is particularly common among young women involved in a sport where their bodies are constantly scrutinized and on display. Joan Ryan's Little Girls in Pretty Boxes: The Making and Breaking of Elite Gymnasts and Figure Skaters
is only one source that discusses the issue disordered eating among gymnasts and figure skaters in particular. Katrine Bertine's All the Sundays Yet to Come is another - a first-person account of a skater struggling with an eating disorder.

And reports such as those about the powder diet only reinforce the perception of disordered eating in figure skating.



Are you saying that women need to maintain a healthy diet more than men do, or that they worry about it more than men do.

I would think that both male and female skaters need to be at a certain weight to perform their base (not too light, as well as not too heavy).

And I've always wondered if some lady skaters sacrifice power to maintain a less than ideal weight. Sasha Cohen's typical one or two mistake programs come to mind. As I mentioned earlier (in this thread or another), I once heard her blaming a mistake on two pounds she didn't lose when talking to Frank in the KnC. Maybe it was actually the opposite - less strength and power to several pounds too few.



Megan Duhamel is doing just that with by blogging about her vegan diet, and I think she is involved in promoting that diet and advising skaters about how to eat healthy.

I think in the sport I suspect a little weight gain can be harder on the girls than on the men. Of course I guess technique plays a role but you don't see puberty fears with men. Perhaps though a huge part is technique. If your teaching girls to rely on being paper thin to land their jumps..... Of course it is hard to know how girls will grow. But you look at a Carolina Kostner who I don't think ever looked unhealthy thin and was taller but she had POWER.
However I think in a lot of sports, both sexes have to relay on a health diet and I definetly think skating is one of those sports especially when you are jumping quads and the harder triples.

This being said I think too little weight can make rotating one's jumps difficult. Some female pairs skaters improved with weight gain.

I am glad Meghan is promoting healthy diet. I think it must be such a hard balance for coaches!!! Because you don't want to promote eating disorders.

 

[Japanfan]

I think in the sport I suspect a little weight gain can be harder on the girls than on the men.

Why? Because girls/ladies are lighter, hence a few extra pounds makes more of a difference?

Of course I guess technique plays a role but you don't see puberty fears with men.

Just because they don't express those fears does not mean they don't have them.

Look at what happened to Nam Nguyen after he grew - he lost all the jumps that earned him titles in everything up to senior.

Then we have the young Stephen Gogolov, who just won Junior GFP and has been heralded 'the next one'. He's just a kid and really small - he needed to use his hand to launch himself to the stop step of the podium, and another medalist helped him out on the way down.

It's a lot of pressure on a youngster who has yet to go through his growth spurt into adulthood.

 

[becca]

Why? Because girls/ladies are lighter, hence a few extra pounds makes more of a difference?



Just because they don't express those fears does not mean they don't have them.

Look at what happened to Nam Nguyen after he grew - he lost all the jumps that earned him titles in everything up to senior.

Then we have the young Stephen Gogolov, who just won Junior GFP and has been heralded 'the next one'. He's just a kid and really small - he needed to use his hand to launch himself to the stop step of the podium, and another medalist helped him out on the way down.

It's a lot of pressure on a youngster who has yet to go through his growth spurt into adulthood.

Your right. I did say weight plays role for men too. Maybe it's because girls reach the success at younger ages when they have grown less. There are less 14 year old men winning major champions. I did say weight plays a role for guys too.