Taylor Swift

[vgerdes]

Teen Vogue has an interesting opinion piece about the controversy. And how it's partially based on sexism. And partially based on people ignoring who Swift has always been.

The Hollow Hypocrisy of the Taylor Swift/Matty Healy Backlash

Why is being seen in public with Matty Healy, of all things, the line in the sand?

www.teenvogue.com

That really is an interesting piece. I found a few nuggets in there that I really didn't know.

 

[becca]

I don’t know who you chose to date is a reflection of you but shock is what Mattey does.

I think it’s just a rebound anyways

 

[canbelto]

A friend actually went to Taylor Swifts concert a few days ago. Dying of jealousy.

 

[Garden Kitty]

I know when Taylor started her prototypical fan was a young girl, but I'm impressed at how she's grown her fan base over the yeas. When tickets for the tour went on sale, I was surprised at the range of people in my twitter feed were getting tickets and going to shows. NFL players, broadcasters and authors of varying ages were tweeting about the concert. It's hard for any actor/artist to stay relevant and it's impressive how she's not only stayed relevant for a number of years, but greatly increased her fan base.

 

[moebius]

Taylor's remake of 'Last Christmas' by Wham! was so bland and soulless that it made cardboard seem tasty.

 

[Allskate]

One of the things I like best about her is her intelligence. She's one smart cookie -- at least when it comes to the business of making music.

I think she is super smart, especially when it comes to marketing and business.

Yes, she has made political comments, but she waited a long time to begin doing that - well after she left country music and was trying to appeal to a young pop fanbase that largely shared what she said about politics. There are plenty of singers who have done as much or more. I tend to view her decisions to publicly make political statements as being fairly calculated as to how they will affect her. But, that's because I tend to view everything she does as very calculated. It's part of what makes her so business savvy. (I'm not saying she doesn't actually believe what she says politically. And I'm not saying she's the only one whose decisions and statements are calculated, but she seems to be one of the best at it.) Her later political statements probably do make her recent romantic choice confusing to many. I don't think she has been portraying a persona of someone who would be into this new guy.

Teen Vogue has an interesting opinion piece about the controversy. And how it's partially based on sexism. And partially based on people ignoring who Swift has always been.

From the article:

Healy is not a public servant; the status of Swift’s boyfriend is not a public good to be revoked nor a job from which someone can be justly fired for their sheer unpopularity. Conflating the two reveals the extent to which fans view Swift as a public commodity whose intimate choices ought to be subject to collective vetting. What’s more, though well-intentioned, the positioning of one woman’s romantic life as a broad political issue only serves to harm the credibility of progressive causes with a clearly defined political goal.

I don't look at it quite the same way. IMO, Taylor Swift largely has commoditized herself and especially her love life. She has used even short-lived romances as fodder for her work, often portraying herself as the victim. And she will drag it out and milk it. Ask Jake Gyllenhall. I think she has built her career largely on this, so it shouldn't be surprising at all that her biggest fans view her love life as a commodity subject to vetting. That's kind of her brand and business model. This has always been a bit of a turn-off to me. But, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say, as the the author does, that this harms the credibility of progressive causes.

ETA: I also think it's stretching it to say that the response is sexist. Even when people don't make a business model out of their love lives, others tend to judge people - both male and female - by the company they keep, thinking that it reflects on the person's own values.

 

[canbelto]

I think one thing about Taylor Swift that I admire is how much she makes her brand about her music. I feel like pop superstars eventually make their brand a schtick -- see Madonna. But Taylor is always producing new albums, new songs, new content for her fans to obsess over. She is skilled at songwriting and finding catchy hooks. Her productivity is actually remarkable.

 

[Allskate]

I think one thing about Taylor Swift that I admire is how much she makes her brand about her music. I feel like pop superstars eventually make their brand a schtick -- see Madonna. But Taylor is always producing new albums, new songs, new content for her fans to obsess over. She is skilled at songwriting and finding catchy hooks. Her productivity is actually remarkable.

I think the response to the Matt Healy situation shows that Taylor's brand is about more than music. IMO, anyone who is at all familiar with the Swift fandom knows that they are obsessed with more than catchy hooks and Taylor's singing voice. (Yes, Madonna was a bit over the top with her look, but she's a pretty darn good singer and songwriter herself. IMO, a better singer than Taylor whose voice I do not find very impressive. There are people who are fans of each of these singers partly for reasons of personality and persona, including appearance, not just good songwriting and singing.)

 

[PeterG]

Yes, she has made political comments, but she waited a long time to begin doing that - well after she left country music and was trying to appeal to a young pop fanbase that largely shared what she said about politics. There are plenty of singers who have done as much or more.

Taylor's first pop album was "Red", released in 2012. She was 23 years old.

Are you feeling that most singers in their 20's are more politically outspoken than Taylor?

 

[becca]

I think the response to the Matt Healy situation shows that Taylor's brand is about more than music. IMO, anyone who is at all familiar with the Swift fandom knows that they are obsessed with more than catchy hooks and Taylor's singing voice. (Yes, Madonna was a bit over the top with her look, but she's a pretty darn good singer and songwriter herself. IMO, a better singer than Taylor whose voice I do not find very impressive. There are people who are fans of each of these singers partly for reasons of personality and persona, including appearance, not just good songwriting and singing.)

I am not impressed with Taylor’s voice but I am impressed with her song writing.

She has written several songs that were big hits for other stars. So it’s not just her personality. I really like A Better Man for example and she gave that to Little Big Town

I also think for example “We are Never Ever Ever Getting Back together” is going to stand the test of the time.

 

[Allskate]

Taylor's first pop album was "Red", released in 2012. She was 23 years old.

Are you feeling that most singers in their 20's are more politically outspoken than Taylor?

Huh? I didn't say "most singers." But, Taylor is not some special outlier and leader or groundbreaker because she made a political statement. Ariana Grande, Pink, Gaga, and Katy Perry were perfectly willing to be political in their twenties. Heck, Harry Styles endorsed an American political candidate and he's not even American. Kelsea Ballerini, Maren Morris, and Kacey Musgraves have made political statements as young country singers. And then there's the classic case of The Chicks, who sure stuck their necks out when they were younger. I think they're part of the reason that some are reluctant to do so.

Everyone is welcome to their opinions, but I definitely think that Taylor's decision to make political statements was based not only on her political beliefs, but also partly on calculating the response. I don't remember Taylor making an overtly political statement until a couple of years after Trump was elected. For quite some time, she avoided making political statements. I watched her documentary where they show her putting out that first political post on Twitter. She was regretting the fact that she had remained silent up until then and she herself wasn't happy that she had refrained from making political statements because she was afraid of the response. She had major discussions with her team about whether to make a political statement and her publicist was with her when she posted it. She seemed very nervous about it. Not everyone agreed with her decision (including her father), but one of the things I admire about Taylor is that she always seems to be the one making the major decisions and isn't someone's pawn or being controlled by other people.

I am not impressed with Taylor’s voice but I am impressed with her song writing. She has written several songs that were big hits for other stars. So it’s not just her personality.

I totally agree that she is a talented songwriter. I'm not suggesting that her success has nothing to do with her songwriting or that it is just because of her personality and marketing. I'm just saying that her success is not just because of her songwriting and singing.

 

[PeterG]

Huh? I didn't say "most singers."

I know. But why should we expect more from Taylor in her 20's when most people, famous or not, are not being highly political at that time in their life?

 

[becca]

Huh? I didn't say "most singers." But, Taylor is not some special outlier and leader or groundbreaker because she made a political statement. Ariana Grande, Pink, Gaga, and Katy Perry were perfectly willing to be political in their twenties. Heck, Harry Styles endorsed an American political candidate and he's not even American. Kelsea Ballerini, Maren Morris, and Kacey Musgraves have made political statements as young country singers. And then there's the classic case of The Chicks, who sure stuck their necks out when they were younger. I think they're part of the reason that some are reluctant to do so.

Everyone is welcome to their opinions, but I definitely think that Taylor's decision to make political statements was based not only on her political beliefs, but also partly on calculating the response. I don't remember Taylor making an overtly political statement until a couple of years after Trump was elected. For quite some time, she avoided making political statements. I watched her documentary where they show her putting out that first political post on Twitter. She was regretting the fact that she had remained silent up until then and she herself wasn't happy that she had refrained from making political statements because she was afraid of the response. She had major discussions with her team about whether to make a political statement and her publicist was with her when she posted it. She seemed very nervous about it. Not everyone agreed with her decision (including her father), but one of the things I admire about Taylor is that she always seems to be the one making the major decisions and isn't someone's pawn or being controlled by other people.



I totally agree that she is a talented songwriter. I'm not suggesting that her success has nothing to do with her songwriting or that it is just because of her personality and marketing. I'm just saying that her success is not just because of her songwriting and singing.

Well it’s a package if you don’t market your music then your not going to sell.

But honestly I think her marketing works because she makes music people relate to.

 

[Allskate]

I know. But why should we expect more from Taylor in her 20's when most people, famous or not, are not being highly political at that time in their life?

Where did I say that we should expect more from her? My point was that it was a calculated decision on her part (and that her political statements probably contributed to some fans being surprised by her recent romance decisions), not that she should do what many people do not. In any event, I'm not sure her situation is the same as a lot of people who are not political. I don't think that most people who aren't making political statements make that decision based on their fear of how it will affect their music career (or other job). They just don't care about politics. But, it was pretty clear from what Taylor herself said that it wasn't that she didn't have political opinions or political concerns earlier on and that's why she was silent. To her credit, it seems that she was well informed and did have political opinions. It's not like she was ignorant about Trump and that's why she didn't say anything earlier. One impression I have of her is that she cares a lot about what people think about her. And not just her fans but the haters, too. She doesn't just shake it off.

To be clear, though, although I don't always like the fact that she appears to be calculating in the way that she commoditizes her personal life and I don't care for that part of her music, there are some things I definitely do admire about her. I like the fact that she is very intelligent and makes the decisions. She is a CEO. Some of her music is not my cup of tea, but I think she is a very talented songwriter and I really liked her "Folklore" album and bought it. I also respect the fact that she spoke out and sued the DJ who groped her.

 

[becca]

Where did I say that we should expect more from her? My point was that it was a calculated decision on her part, not that she should do what many people do not. You were the one who started comparing her to others. In any event, I'm not sure her situation is the same as a lot of people who are not political. I don't think that most people who aren't making political statements make that decision based on their fear of how it will affect their music career (or other job). They just don't care about politics. But, it was pretty clear from what Taylor herself said that it wasn't that she didn't have political opinions or political concerns earlier on and that's why she was silent. To her credit, it seems that she was well informed and did have political opinions. It's not like she was ignorant about Trump and that's why she didn't say anything earlier. One impression I have of her is that she cares a lot about what people think about her. And not just her fans but the haters, too. She doesn't just shake it off.

To be clear, though, although I don't always like the fact that she appears to be calculating in the way that she commoditizes her personal life and I don't care for that part of her music, there are some things I definitely do admire about her. I like the fact that she is very intelligent and makes the decisions. She is a CEO. Some of her music is not my cup of tea, but I think she is a very talented songwriter and I really liked her "Folklore" album and bought it. I also respect the fact that she spoke out and sued the DJ who groped her.

I agree that at times Taylor does bring her personal life out there and at times I think sicks her fans on people.

I felt for her ex boyfriend of six years when she decided to as a song to sell at concerts just now what two months that included lyrics “I wouldn’t marry me either a pathological people pleaser”

Of course it had her fans react. It wasn’t necessary

 

[canbelto]

Maybe I'm just more of a run of the mill fan and not a Swiftie, but I realize how little I know about Taylor personally. I just find her songs very catchy and listen to her albums. It's not this way with the Bey-Hive or the Little Monsters or the other intense fanbases. And fwiw, I love Lady Gaga and like Beyonce.

 

[MacMadame]

But, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say, as the the author does, that this harms the credibility of progressive causes.

It is a weird thing to say when nothing Swift has done has made me think she's a progressive. A Liberal, yes. Progressive, no.

But I still think people project onto her and this is an example of that.

I know. But why should we expect more from Taylor in her 20's when most people, famous or not, are not being highly political at that time in their life?

Lots of people in their 20s are political. However, you are arguing against a point that was not made.

 

[once_upon]

I was in the pre-procedure room, where they start my IV and have me talk to Doctor and CRNA administering sedation for my colonscopy, I overheard the staff outside my room talking Taylor concert plans, how they got tickets, how they are trying to find tickets for a friend, etc. The conversation turned to outfits and which ERA they were going to wear.

One is plannung "Reputations" and one is planning "Red". These are not women under 21 either. I would say 30-40's

I am so old, I would never thought about selecting an outfit that was specific to a concert.

 

[PeterG]

I was in the pre-procedure room, where they start my IV and have me talk to Doctor and CRNA administering sedation for my colonscopy, I overheard the staff outside my room talking Taylor concert plans, how they got tickets, how they are trying to find tickets for a friend, etc. The conversation turned to outfits and which ERA they were going to wear.

I am so old, I would never thought about selecting an outfit that was specific to a concert.

Perhaps you're not old, but had something else on your mind?

 

[manhn]

I mean, didn’t Taylor fans bully an actress of colour on a Netflixshow for reciting lines that happen to contain a crack against her? I don’t think Swifties are any less uberish than other fans of main pop girls.

 

[once_upon]

Perhaps you're not old, but had something else on your mind?

Well maybe, but I still don't think i.would have thought/considered/ordered specific clothing/outfit for a concert. Apparently it is a thing

End of an Era! Taylor Swift's Tour Is Almost Over — Here's What to Wear to the Final Shows

Taylor Swift's Eras Tour is in full swing, so here's what to wear to a Taylor Swift concert. Check out these 176 Taylor Swift concert outfit ideas based on 'Midnights,' 'Evermore,' 'Folklore,' 'Lover,' 'Reputation,' '1989,' 'Red,' 'Speak Now,' and 'Fearless'

people.com

The Best Outfits to Wear to Taylor Swift's Concert — Inspired By Her "Tortured Poets" Era

Including styles that pay homage to her newest era. 🪶

www.popsugar.com

There are a lot more sites, including one.for.moms

 

[VGThuy]

I think one thing about Taylor Swift that I admire is how much she makes her brand about her music. I feel like pop superstars eventually make their brand a schtick -- see Madonna. But Taylor is always producing new albums, new songs, new content for her fans to obsess over. She is skilled at songwriting and finding catchy hooks. Her productivity is actually remarkable.

Madonna is still producing new albums, songs, and content. She just collaborated with The Weeknd on his latest single and is releasing a song with Sam Smith this week. She has released at least three charting albums every decade since the 1980s and two of the albums from the 2010s went no. 1. Sure, they didn’t set sales figures on fire after they went no. 1 but she was in her mid-50s pushing 60 by then. Not to mention she already had three decades of consistent global hits before then. She’s still the female artist with the highest number of selling records and holds records for ticket sales for her tours, and is preparing for her new global tour now.

All of those are music-related, music she has mostly co-produced and co-written (the ones she didn’t were from her first two albums but even those had songs she had written and both albums’ producers said she had a heavy hand in making).

Madonna has always used her music to pursue messages, expose issues, and advocate for causes she believed in, which can get mixed up with her large public image, but her celebrity on its own isn’t why she’s lasted as long as she has and was dubbed “the Queen of Pop”. Her music has always been at the very core of what she does, and why she’s around and people pay attention.

Heck, even Taylor Swift played guitar for her for one of her live performances:

 

[MacMadame]

The interesting thing about comparing Madonna and Swift to me is that neither of them has the greatest voice. Their strengths are similar too. Except I don't think anyone projects anything on Madonna. Her personality comes on pretty strong and you know where she stands on many issues.

 

[vgerdes]

The interesting thing about comparing Madonna and Swift to me is that neither of them has the greatest voice. Their strengths are similar too. Except I don't think anyone projects anything on Madonna. Her personality comes on pretty strong and you know where she stands on many issues.

Yep. Madonna has never been one to remain silent, sometimes to her detriment. But there are certainly some correlations to be drawn between the two of them.

 

[becca]

The interesting thing about comparing Madonna and Swift to me is that neither of them has the greatest voice. Their strengths are similar too. Except I don't think anyone projects anything on Madonna. Her personality comes on pretty strong and you know where she stands on many issues.

I actually think I relate to Taylor’s songs more. She really writes songs that everyone can relate to.

One of my favorite right now is Exile.

 

[quartz]

I was in the pre-procedure room, where they start my IV and have me talk to Doctor and CRNA administering sedation for my colonscopy, I overheard the staff outside my room talking Taylor concert plans, how they got tickets, how they are trying to find tickets for a friend, etc. The conversation turned to outfits and which ERA they were going to wear.

One is plannung "Reputations" and one is planning "Red". These are not women under 21 either. I would say 30-40's

I am so old, I would never thought about selecting an outfit that was specific to a concert.

I totally plan outfits according to the event/concert I’m attending. I’m already planning my Montreal Worlds outfits. Should probably book a hotel and get tickets very soon!


I wouldn’t recognize a single song of Taylor’s, but I like her anyways. There is something very smart, sassy, and personable that comes through, even if I don’t listen to her music - she seems like a great role model for the younger generation.

 

[PeterG]

I wouldn’t recognize a single song of Taylor’s, but I like her anyways.

We are never, ever, ever getting back together.

 

[MacMadame]

I totally plan outfits according to the event/concert I’m attending.

I do that for trips to Disneyland. It even has a name: "Disney Bounding". I am not surprised that people are doing this for Swift's concert because it's called Eras and has music from all her Eras. It's a natural for picking an era and dressing up.

However, I expect that the majority of attendees won't do it.

I wouldn’t recognize a single song of Taylor’s, but I like her anyways.

I know one song of hers. Because some dude made a video to it when he got fired from his coaching job and it went viral.

It's cute too:

The Cordell's Shake it off.

www.youtube.com

(I've probably heard more don't remember it.)

 

[VGThuy]

“Willow” is the only song of Taylor’s that I can say I love. There’s a handful that I think are fun, and we know “22” and “We Are Never Getting Back Together” are anthems of the early 21st century.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

We are never, ever, ever getting back together.

Oh dear tangled mass of pasta, is that the title of that repetitive piece of kidpop?

Having watched the first 15 seconds of the video at the link, I recognize having heard it as background music played in some of the restaurants/lounges I visit.

Believe me when I swear to you on the Kween's 5 WC gold medals that I didn't know the title of the song, who wrote it or sang it - nor did I care at all one single bit about learning any of these facts.

I think I'll survive and so will she. Haters will just have to take her advice and shake it off/shake it off (the only song of hers that I recognize at all).