Survivor S39: Island of the Idols

[Jenny]

But what is Tommy's case for the win?

 

[smurfy]

Interesting article - read it!

Critic’s Notebook: Even After an Unprecedented Eviction, ‘Survivor’ May Be Permanently Broken

Amid accusations of inappropriate touching, the CBS unscripted series 'Survivor' failed to protect its contestants and failed to protect the integrity of the beloved and long-running game.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Critic's Notebook: Even After an Unprecedented Eviction, 'Survivor' May Be Permanently Broken

As the article states - the network of Moonves and 'Bull'.
I would guess male stupidity, ignorance, fear of women and other stupid things and $$$$ played into the decisions made.
Or fear or inability to figure out how to explain cancelling a season?
Part of me wonders the status of the staffer that Dan touched - a higher up that has more clout than the previous victims?

From the article:
"A thing that should have been handled immediately festered and became toxic and players were forced to choose between basic human decency and their desire to win $1 million and most of them chose the latter. And that is what this year's winner will have been tainted by, even if it's Janet, the most noble of Kellee's defenders."

Also - they film in the Fiji now for many seasons - to keep costs down with one location.
And I am pretty sure I read a few years ago - that the by the time the fall season starts - the future spring season has already been completed. They could have rushed the upcoming All Winners??

It will be interesting to hear about the fallout and see what happens.
This is more than a 'jump the shark' moment for a tv show.



Jenny - not sure what Tommy can say - good point. Good alliance but what else?
And Noura - part of me will crack up if she wins. She seems to be a Goat - but is not the typical goat as she is a challenge threat.

 

[Prancer]

As the article states - the network of Moonves and 'Bull'.
I would guess male stupidity, ignorance, fear of women and other stupid things and $$$$ played into the decisions made.
Or fear or inability to figure out how to explain cancelling a season?
Part of me wonders the status of the staffer that Dan touched - a higher up that has more clout than the previous victims?

I read an article (sorry, no link) that said it all came down to Jeff Probst's ego and putting the story ahead of people.

I love Jeff most of the time, but I have not loved him this season at all. He just seems totally smug about how this show is just like the real world and I think he's probably pretty stunned at all this criticism because he comes across as being proud of the way this was handled.

I expect a big "lessons learned" speech or interview from him at the end.

 

[Jenny]

Thanks for sharing that @smurfy. A thought occurs to me that much of this has been about saving the franchise, not necessarily the jobs that go with it, but the egos (Jeff, Mark). Their position has been "this is about real life" but maybe it's also about protecting the integrity, as in fairness, of the game. By showing everyone carrying on with the game, they can say that while this whole thing affected some lives, it did not affect the game. That remains intact. Do the players have any rights if they feel that they did not get a fair shot due to producer interference? Are they making a point of showing Tommy immediately back into game mode just to make the point that the game was unaffected, and the ultimate winner will be the same as every winner, deserving based on a fair game?

I'm also thinking back to family visits. The big fuss about the youngest person to ever appear on Survivor, the touching (ahem and touchy) moment between father and son, the tears and sweetness, a beautiful Survivor moment, and then they even get to go on the reward together, yay! I mean WTF was that? Just days earlier they had had to lecture Dan, publicly in front of the cast and crew, and then by the time they get to the edit suite they give him THAT?

And I see from the article and others that people are still acting like Janet is the hero in all this, and I ain't buying. Yes I'm sure she's a good woman and cares about other women and wouldn't hurt a flea, but fact is she went right back to playing with Dan, choosing game over principle, and once again I will point out that when she and Tommy won that reward and Jeff said they could invite someone else, they chose Dan - immediately, without hesitation, and ahead of all the other players.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Back to the night Kelle got voted out, she was holding two Idols, right? I don't remember what all went down at that Tribal (heck I barely remember what happens week to week ), but what was her logic in thinking she was safe and if she really had two Idols, why didn't she play one of them? Did she say anything about that in exit interviews or on Twitter or whatever?

 

[Prancer]

And I see from the article and others that people are still acting like Janet is the hero in all this, and I ain't buying. Yes I'm sure she's a good woman and cares about other women and wouldn't hurt a flea, but fact is she went right back to playing with Dan, choosing game over principle, and once again I will point out that when she and Tommy won that reward and Jeff said they could invite someone else, they chose Dan - immediately, without hesitation, and ahead of all the other players.

In Janet's defense, Missy and Elizabeth claimed that their complaints about Dan were gameplay and Kellee wasn't around any more to say otherwise, so what was she to think except that Dan was a victim of false accusations?

 

[sk8pics]

I thought Janet may have felt like she falsely accused Dan, based on other players’ reactions to the whole mess, and that’s why she chose Dan for the reward.

 

[genevieve]

Didn't some of the other women also tell Dan that Janet was the one who spearheaded the whole "eliminate Dan" plot, and that Janet made up the whole thing? This is after tribal, when Janet went to Dan (like an adult) to explain herself. She then went to the other women, with Dan, to clear the air. Janet was in the right, and got I think the swimmer to admit she said something she had claimed to Dan she hadn't, but it came across as Janet having to claw her way back into her alliance, not that she was shining a light onto a bunch of lies and out-side-the-game shadiness.

And the way Survivor is handling this is 100% about Mark and Jeff's egos. I love Survivor, but after what's happened here it needs to change if it's going to continue.

 

[Jenny]

I can't imagine what some of the players are going through watching this season and how much it differs than what they remember. But surely, given that the producers had to talk to the entire cast as a group mid game, and that they spoke individually to every player and apparently asked the women specifically if there was a problem, they have to know that regardless of what exactly did happen, something did happen.

At this point, it would not surprise me in the least if they pre-taped the announcement of the winner with a stacked audience, and then cancelled the reunion. A couple of hours delay might not be enough time to package it the way that they'll think they need to.

 

[BaileyCatts]

To me it doesn't sound like the Producers did a very good job of actually communicating with the cast what was actually happening. I've been clicking around articles (could never find them all again, just clicking all the hyperlinks in articles) and I've seen several where the cast members were like (my paraphrasing) 'they just asked us of we feel safe, let us know if you don't feel safe, we are here for you if you don't feel safe'. Now to me, I take that as meaning do I feel safe playing the challenges (like hurt yourself safe). I would never interpret it to mean someone harassing you unless they specifically asked me "do you feel like you are being harassed by another cast member". One of the articles said they pulled them out for individual 'do you feel safe' talks literally right before they were ready to play a Challenge, so again I would think it meant "safe" as in not hurt yourself if they asked me that right before playing a physical game.

And I didn't even realize that it was pretty much going on since Day 1 and it took until Day 22 for the producers to step in and say something, and then (was it) Day 33-ish for him to be removed from the game.

 

[Jenny]

You have a point there @BaileyCatts, we can only guess what was actually said in those meetings. Or what Dan actually did to finally get them to boot him. Wonder how much of this is also about the cast members' contracts and what they can say about the game.

Sigh, what a mess.

 

[DreamSkates]

I think this is a summary of the Dan situation that is worth listening to. I appreciate it is 2 males that are speaking about the issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCezDiNVXWc
In my opinion, the producers should have been quicker about not letting the unwanted touching go on. AT ALL. FOR ANY REASON.
Also, women should speak up with a loud "no," and not be criticized for it. On the other hand, the players are all there to win a game so don't want to blow up their delicate alliances. That being said, it is the producer's responsibility to exit any player that is invading someone's space for whatever reason. It was obvious that Kelley was upset early on.
I'm frustrated with responses to these situations - Callahan also, he should have been permanently banned from skating.

 

[DreamSkates]

I can't imagine what some of the players are going through watching this season and how much it differs than what they remember. But surely, given that the producers had to talk to the entire cast as a group mid game, and that they spoke individually to every player and apparently asked the women specifically if there was a problem, they have to know that regardless of what exactly did happen, something did happen.

At this point, it would not surprise me in the least if they pre-taped the announcement of the winner with a stacked audience, and then cancelled the reunion. A couple of hours delay might not be enough time to package it the way that they'll think they need to.

If they do everything live as in the past, too many unwanted questions could be asked. So tune in and find out.

 

[DreamSkates]

In Janet's defense, Missy and Elizabeth claimed that their complaints about Dan were gameplay and Kellee wasn't around any more to say otherwise, so what was she to think except that Dan was a victim of false accusations?

This type of gameplay should not be allowed.

 

[DreamSkates]

I read an article (sorry, no link) that said it all came down to Jeff Probst's ego and putting the story ahead of people.

I love Jeff most of the time, but I have not loved him this season at all. He just seems totally smug about how this show is just like the real world and I think he's probably pretty stunned at all this criticism because he comes across as being proud of the way this was handled.

I expect a big "lessons learned" speech or interview from him at the end.

I don't know why anyone would think a reality show is "real world" anything. Obviously, players cheat and lie to win. I hope that is not how they are in the "real world."

 

[Prancer]

Dan Speaks

 

[Sparks]

F Dan. He and Elizabeth are not attending the finale. Also, F Elizabeth.

 

[tony]

Elizabeth has apparently received the most hate-mail/death threats of anyone in the cast so I think she’s being cautious more than anything— and for that, I’m not sure if she deserves that reply @Sparks . I also have read elsewhere that Jack will not attend, possibly because he and Elizabeth have been dating? I forget where the article is and I’m on my phone now, but it’s all out there somewhere.

Dan was dis-invited from the finale. That was a given, but I wonder when they actually told him.

I also read in an updated version to the articles posted above that it was Janet who was witness to what Dan did to get him the final boot. I’m sure since that information is out there, she’s going to be questioned to no end once again on how severe she felt his action was.

I’m fine with the finale being taped early, but I have this suspicion that the tone of it is going to all be so serious and maybe even bitchy towards Jeff and the producers that I wouldn’t be surprised to see half of the typical 45 minutes or so given to the reunion turn into a preview of season 40 in order to get as little out of the current group as possible.

And we were all basically saying way before the Dan stuff even came up that the editing was all over the place this year. I don’t know whether I should’ve liked or extremely disliked some people. I don’t know if others were actually being kind-hearted in one moment yet abrasive and belittling in the next.

The editing has just simply been a mess and I don’t think that is helping the Dan situation because it really looks like what happened in the first half of the game was casually swept under the rug, the producers half-listened to Kelley and told her they would talk to everyone, others say it was such a casual talk that they didn’t know the severity of anything. I think that is why we got such strong reactions at the blow-up tribal council- because everyone aside from the few girls and Janet were essentially clueless and I suspect CBS did their best at that point to shape it like they had been doing everything they could to help out (including showing all of the clips of Dan being Dan- which should have been enough to warrant some kind of talking to way earlier on IMO).

 

[smurfy]

I wonder if the finale will be like BB- announce winner with about 7 minutes til the show ends.

tony Wheeler- excellent point about the editing!!!!

 

[BaileyCatts]

Elizabeth has apparently received the most hate-mail/death threats of anyone in the cast so I think she’s being cautious more than anything— ............

Wasn't it really Missy that instigated playing up Kelle's concerns and coming up with the 'plan' for all the girls to play up that they also felt uncomfortable with Dan's behavior? I thought that Elizabeth just sort of followed along with what Missy told her to do? So it should be Missy that's getting the hate for trying to make Kelle's concerns 'game play', not Elizabeth. At least, maybe ...... I really don't remember now, but I thought it was Missy that came up with that idea.

 

[tony]

Wasn't it really Missy that instigated playing up Kelle's concerns and coming up with the 'plan' for all the girls to play up that they also felt uncomfortable with Dan's behavior? I thought that Elizabeth just sort of followed along with what Missy told her to do? So it should be Missy that's getting the hate for trying to make Kelle's concerns 'game play', not Elizabeth. At least, maybe ...... I really don't remember now, but I thought it was Missy that came up with that idea.

Missy and Kellee immediately started talking about their similar experiences with Dan. At that point, IIRC, Missy had no reason to go after Kellee. But it was Kellee herself who had already told someone else (maybe Lauren, all of this feels like a year ago already..) that Missy was the target. So upon seeing the two talking, Missy was informed about Kellee’s plans and that’s what set in motion passing over getting rid of Dan (and the whole ‘well it didn’t bother me enough to switch up my game’ talk). I believe Elizabeth had agreed with the girls that Dan was pushing the limits but then repeatedly said in her island interviews that it wasn’t as severe or bothersome as others were making it, or something like that. I think that’s where the slack comes from towards her. Missy, on the other hand, was more concerned with quickly getting a target out that was directly going for her. Then they all left Janet out of the plans and basically made her seem stupid for switching her own plans to benefit them.

I may have gotten some details wrong.. it really does feel like forever ago at this point.

 

[tony]

But what is Tommy's case for the win?

Sorry that I skipped over this. I have a feeling, if he does make the final 3, it's going to be because of two big moves in the finale. One would probably have to be getting Janet to play her idol while knowing Dean will cancel it out, and then either he beats someone out in the fire-making or he wins the final immunity (maybe Noura wins final immunity and puts Lauren and Tommy head-to-head, for example).

If it does end up Noura and Dean sitting alongside him, I think Dean is going to get blasted by Kellee for her protecting him and then flipping on her the very next tribal, and I have a feeling her speech/her words are going to go a long way in the final debate because of all that has happened. He and Noura were also both playing sneaky just two weeks ago, and he may try to use the whole 'you know I saved you from getting ousted, Tommy' card, but I think all of his shiftiness will come out because really he's not been playing any kind of consistent game and is getting a really dumb edit. Same with Noura. She's played a good physical game, but her social game is clueless and I think I said earlier that I can't see her getting through the final debate without making herself look weaker than she actually is. She just doesn't know how to edit her words and get to the point. That leaves Tommy standing, really, and I think he will be strong with his arguments.

Now, if Lauren and Janet both make it to the finals, I think it could end up really exciting.

 

[Jenny]

Sigh. Not sure if I can even enjoy this tonight, but I will definitely be watching.

It does help that tomorrow night I can look forward to the second half of the Temptation Island finale and reunion show. It's been a totally delicious season, the perfect mix of sincerity and total trainwreck, a snarkfest for the ages, and it's a joyful relief from all of the mess that is well, just about everything else these days.

 

[alexikeguchi]

They've left basically no time for final tribal. I guess everyone's mind is made up? Or Noura rambled so badly that they had to edit out virtually everything?

ETA: Is it possible for a jury member to abstain? Honestly, all three finalists are falling pretty flat... Time to switch to Vikings.

 

[tony]

Literally this ending turned out exactly what I thought it would aside from Noura winning final immunity. I know Noura would crash and burn through final tribal and it’s no surprise Dean did too.

If Janet had just found that idol on her own, I’m pretty sure she would’ve been the winner.

 

[Jenny]

Literally this ending turned out exactly what I thought it would aside from Noura winning final immunity. I know Noura would crash and burn through final tribal and it’s no surprise Dean did too.

You did have it right - clearly you are more up on this game than I have been (die hard fan for many years, but have not watched the most recent seasons) - or perhaps you had some hints from other boards?

Anyway I didn't see it like that at all. I thought Tommy was a mess at final TC, sounding desperate, and I thought that the jury was for the most part unimpressed. Noura was not the trainwreck I thought she'd be, but one imagine a ton was edited out because the one time she did almost launch into one of her long speeches, they all groaned in unison. Which I thought was rude - she earned her way there, they did not, she has a right to speak and maybe everyone should listen, because again, she's there and you're not.

I thought Dean did a great job. I said upthread I was worried he'd make a big deal of the coin toss, and he didn't - all that stuff about 4th quarter playing and coming into 5 with all the bling and making fire for the first time seemed to be going over very well with the jury - nearly all were nodding and acknowledging, so I was quite when he got only 2 votes, Noura didn't even get one, and Tommy got the rest!

Obviously the final TC was heavily edited, because there's no way that the jury was that coordinated in essentially speaking as one voice, nor did it take a mere what, 8 minutes?

If it weren't for the black cloud hanging over this whole thing, and Tommy winning, I think I would have really enjoyed this season.

As for the rest, I'm still processing, interested to hear what you guys all think.

 

[jamesy]

I can't speak for Tony, but I wasn't spoiled by other sites. Tommy just had the weirdest edit, like the producers remembered he makes the finale and so had to insert some scenes to justify that. I don't remember really hearing about "Tommy and Mommy" alliance, then the last few episodes it was like they had been talking about it all along. And then that wonky scene after Dan left where Tommy's first thought was how it impacted Tommy's game.

Despite all that, I thought I misread the edit, because what they showed of Tommy's final tribal council was pretty bad. All 3 finalists appeared to be losing the jury and it seemed like Dean was the only one shown really winning them back. But then Tommy wins with a vast majority.

I'm more than happy to close the book on this season and look forward to all-winners.

 

[Rogue]

Dean shot himself in the foot with his comment after the fire-making challenge. Stating that Tommy played Noura in setting up Dean as the one to make fire, rather than Tommy, shows that both he and Noura were outwitted by Tommy.

 

[Jenny]

I thought Dean was trying to make the point that Tommy betrayed Lauren by convincing her that he didn't know how to make fire, and then helping Dean practice instead of Lauren. In theory at least, it could have swayed Lauren, and potentially Janet if she started to question whether Tommy was ever loyal to her either.

 

[BaileyCatts]

The best part of the whole finale night was Sandra wearing a crown. I wonder if that was a subtle hint towards Season 40.


So Sia gives a prize out of her own money to the ones she liked the most ….. so does that mean CBS got off the hook of awarding the $100K 'Fan Favorite' out of their own pocket, because Jeff didn't announce a "Fan Favorite" voted on by fans, did he?