Survivor S39: Island of the Idols

Tony Wheeler

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I had forgotten it was Kellee in the first episode who called Dan out and told him about boundaries. Any other touching after that point, including her hair as she walked on the beach and you can clearly see she was not happy with, should be trivial.

This happened on Big Brother 3 or 4 years ago, too (DaVonne and Frank). I don’t think it’s that difficult for men to understand that there’s a bubble. Don’t keep trying to burst the bubble. Dan had to know better. And it’s not ‘cute’ and ‘nice’ no matter how he tries to spin his unawareness.
 

Jenny

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I didn't see the first ep, but did read that in Jeff's interview - all part of the larger effort by CBS/show producers to control the story.

Looked around for any interviews with Kellee, but so far none are posted, nor Jamal. Might take a few days I guess.

I'm so mixed on this, well to be honest the whole #metoo thing. There are the obvious cases where yes, Harvey Weinstein is an ass, but there have been so many other cases that have been so black and white. Sitting on the couch watching the whole thing play out with my husband next to me and talking through it together just underscores how complicated this issue is.
 

Susan1

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I guess they needed the drama for the voting meeting.
Just coming back to say I just thought of "tribal council". Some days the simplest things just won't come to me till later. The other day I couldn't think of library "tote bag" so I wrote satchel. In a later post, I wrote tote without even thinking about it.

It used to be the "fibro(myalgia) fog", then it was menopause. Now it's just frustrating. And I don't have Alzheimer's. Maybe I've bumped my head on the refrigerator or getting in the car too many times. Some days Jeopardy is easy and other days I can picture the answer but the word won't come out.

Sorry to interrupt......................
 

alexikeguchi

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From the Probst interview: "This situation really tests the concept of justified ethics, something that is at the heart of every Survivor season. Where does each player draw their line in the sand? What is okay to do or say and what is off limits? And the bigger question: Are there certain situations that are simply off limits, no matter what?"

Yeah, I'm really not sure where they're going with this. I personally don't think it's a good idea to conflate real world behavior with gameplay as a "microcosm of society" or whatever. Either something unacceptable happened and the producers should step in to remove a player just as if a medical evacuation were required, or they should lay it to rest and not spend an entire tribal council picking the scabs off. Other situations where I feel like the show whiffed were with Brandon Hantz's obvious mental illness and Zeke's outing. Some players did take advantage of these real personal crises to advance their gameplay, and I don't think that should have been an option.

ETA: Oh and I just remembered back to the first all star season when Richard Hatch was in his nudist phase and made full body contact with Sue Hawk. She was so upset at being left to the wolves that she ended up quitting the show herself. That might have been great TV drama, but the producers really dropped the ball to allow the situation to get to that point.
 
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DreamSkates

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Jenny

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Thanks @Prancer, and further, there's a link in that article that includes the statement from the network and MGM (essentially, Mark Burnett).

Interesting that Dalton Ross, a long time follower/writer of Survivor and I think other reality shows, has taken a stand - I get that he likely has a lot of inside connections, but he wasn't there, so why is it up to him to refer to Kellee as "the only true victim"? Lauren's statement suggests she too had a problem, but she dealt with it directly with Dan.

The other thing that is coming to light now is that several (many? all?) of the players were essentially blindsided by this episode. Their reactions have the common thread that says they were deep in the game with limited info, and were not ready for how it played on tv. If you look at their social feeds prior to this episode, even leading up to this one specifically, there's little indication that something big is about to happen at all, which suggests that despite the producer meetings at the time, they really didn't see how big it was.

And was it that big? Or did the producers, like Elizabeth and Missy perhaps, see an opportunity? Survivor has long tried to be about personal journeys, position the game as a microcosm of society, and be a leader in presenting sensitive issues.

The reunion show should be interesting, especially given that it's live.
 

alexikeguchi

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Interesting that Dalton Ross, a long time follower/writer of Survivor and I think other reality shows, has taken a stand - I get that he likely has a lot of inside connections, but he wasn't there, so why is it up to him to refer to Kellee as "the only true victim"? Lauren's statement suggests she too had a problem, but she dealt with it directly with Dan.
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And was it that big? Or did the producers, like Elizabeth and Missy perhaps, see an opportunity? Survivor has long tried to be about personal journeys, position the game as a microcosm of society, and be a leader in presenting sensitive issues.
The whole thing felt very exploitative to me. First of all, I don't see how Kellee was irreparably harmed when she specifically said on camera that she didn't want her issues with Dan to derail her Survivor game and that she was building up Dan to be her decoy vote when she actually planned to vote for Missy. She pretty much used Dan's behavior for her own gameplay purposes, so I don't see why the other players owe her any apology for elevating gameplay over questionable behavior.

I don't think the producers covered themselves in glory by blowing this up either. When you compare the response that Sue Hawk got in the first All Stars season that I referenced previously, her accusations were swept vigorously under the rug, and she left the game due to receiving no support or acknowledgement.
 

Prancer

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I don't think the producers covered themselves in glory by blowing this up either. When you compare the response that Sue Hawk got in the first All Stars season that I referenced previously, her accusations were swept vigorously under the rug, and she left the game due to receiving no support or acknowledgement.
I suspect that had something to do with their response this time.
 

Tony Wheeler

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It's also a tough case of them having to bring it up and not be (seemingly) insensitive to Kellee or even Janet, I guess. Big Brother typically seems to get a 50/50 split every season when the hard-hitting topics are addressed in the finale (see this season) or during the player exit interviews. People either think it should fully be discussed or they think that 'it's just a game and whatever happens happens' type of thing. This year, the winner of Big Brother got hit with questions about racism and ageism mere minutes before he won and his mood completely changed.

I also think it caused enough of a fallout with Kellee's surprise exit (with 2 idols) after looking like a favorite to win and Janet's probable soon exit (although I hope not..) that they had to explain how it all came to that point.

And, if for nothing else, I'm glad that they showed Jeff's annoyance with Dan when Dan was trying to shove it under the rug. I get it- you don't go on Survivor to be embarrassed/called out for your actions in front of millions. But I go back to an earlier point- he was told in the first 3 days to respect space, and he continued to ignore that with said person. He needed a reality check.
 

alexikeguchi

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I don't really think Kellee's getting voted out had anything to do with Dan's inappropriate behavior towards her, though Janet's potential downfall looks like it could be a direct result. Kellee overthought and overcomplicated all her decisions and misread the room by thinking that no one noticed her strategizing, with exhibit A being how her manipulation of Dean and Noura blew up in her face immediately after the prior tribal council. I don't think it was just the editing that made Lauren's response to her request for reassurance right before the votes were read look extremely non-committal, and Kellee has no one but herself to blame for missing that signal and not using one of her two idols.
 

genevieve

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I haven't had a tv since I started traveling, so have not seen the last few seasons of Survivor (sob), but I just saw a story about this and even having read a few articles, don't have the slightest clue what happened other than a guy that is known for being grabby and has been formally warned about it is still in the game. Talk about a microcosm of society.
 

Sparks

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I haven't had a tv since I started traveling, so have not seen the last few seasons of Survivor (sob), but I just saw a story about this and even having read a few articles, don't have the slightest clue what happened other than a guy that is known for being grabby and has been formally warned about it is still in the game. Talk about a microcosm of society.
That's pretty much it, and the woman who spoke out was voted out, and the man who spoke eloquently about believing women was voted out next.
There is a lot more to unpack.
 

genevieve

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I went and watched the last 2 episodes (or 3, since this week's was a double ep).

In some ways this feels like production blew it up harder than ANY of the players. The way the show was edited to include production felt extremely.... performative and CYA.
The most telling part of all of this was Kellee saying that this shit goes on everywhere, and recipients of unwanted attention or touch are often in positions (in life, but definitely in Survivor) where causing a scene causes more problems for the person receiving the unwanted behavior than just putting up with it and/or brushing it off. Missy seemed truly skeeved out by Dan when talking to Elizabeth, but in every conversation about this where others were involved, she just shut down completely and said nothing.

Dan so almost got it while talking at TC, but of course in not quite getting there he managed to center himself and his own experience and still paw on Noura when he should have known by then to just stop touching the women.

Aaron came off as the biggest asshole.

In other news, this Boston Rob and Sandra twist is hilariously dumb.

ETA: In the apology drinking game, any variations of "this is not who I am" require one to drink to blackout.
 
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Kasey

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Missy and Elizabeth, and to a lesser point, Lauren, are completely despicable. To focus on such a target issue, knowing that at least ONE person feels truly negatively impacted by it, and then to turn it into gameplay? Totally not ok. Yes, lying is part of survivor, but that pair took on what goes beyond the boundaries of the game. Poor Janet. Poor Kellee. Dan should have just flat out been removed. At this point, Janet or Noura to win, just because they aren't totally awful human beings to me now.
 

sk8pics

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Wow, I was really confused by the way the episode played out. I agree with @Kasey about a lot of it. Dan struck me as a guy who knows deep down he was behaving inappropriately, but tries to brush it off. And yes, lying is part of survivor, but the behavior of Missy and Elizabeth just crosses a line. I wonder what more will come of this. I guess we’ll soon see.
 

genevieve

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I can give a tiny pass to Missy b/c she found out she was Kellee's target.
Yeah, I am guessing she was second guessing the entire conversation that she and Kellee had on the beach, thinking Kellee was playing her.
 

Tony Wheeler

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Tonight was crazy good. Thank God for the overacting of Dan during tribal council, because it was easy to figure out Aaron actually was going at that point. It’s somewhat funny that a miscommunication ultimately seemed to get Missy sent home, but I have a feeling one of them would’ve seen that light of getting her out whether the argument happened or not with Karishma.

I still think Karishma will be pulled to the finals, and now that she will probably be able to lay low following this vote, she might even be able to make a big move for someone else late in the game with the idol.

Still hoping for Janet to go all the way, and somehow, some way I still like Noura. Karishma actually cracked me up when she came back acting all dazed and I was praying Noura was going to blow up in Debbie ‘you ripped my heart out!!’ fashion. 😆 We still have quite a bit of game to go 🤞🏻
 

Jenny

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Karishma is a piece of work, but you're right Tony (and Rob), she's going to go far.

Always interesting to see the change in attitude when someone has an Idol (inc Noura, and Elaine to a lesser extent). That alone should tell people something's up, because despite her lazyass I'm sick act, Karishma had it written all over her face once she had it.

This is the first season I've seen in a few years - are there always this many Idols? Or maybe the cast doesn't realize because 3 have already gone home in people's bags? You'd think there'd be much more talk about it, and definitely suspicion that Karishma found one on that long walk that only brought back 2 coconuts.

Enjoying this season because the players are all playing and are interesting to different degrees, but Smug Jeff just gets more annoying as the years go on. The tone of this ep just underscores to me that last week the producers and network took advantage of a situation, and I daresay might have even made it a much bigger deal than it was. If I didn't have a job :) I'd spend a bit of time scouring social accounts and interviews to see how the players are feeling now that the world is seeing it play out.
 

Kasey

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Glad Missy is gone. What an awful human being.

I'm torn between wanting Feely Dan out next (I think he should have just been pulled from the game to begin with) and wanting him to go as a final 3 goat so that Kellee never has to spend time with him at Ponderosa. But Elizabeth needs to go also.
 

smurfy

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I enjoyed the episode and - wow - 2 strong players gone!
Missy's exit was different.
And yes Krishna can make it to the end. Ughh. In the first episode I thought she was very young. She is mid 30s and a lawyer!
I would never hire her - she just seems weak and whiny.

Jenny - re -about number of idols. Not an official count - but yes they seem to be increasing.
The all star season where Cirie was not voted out as everyone else had an idol or advantage seemed to fulfill the dreams of Jeff and production - so it will continue.
As i have said many times - they should have a season where they follow the rules from the first season. Freak everyone out as they search for idols and never find them.
 

Prancer

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Or maybe the cast doesn't realize because 3 have already gone home in people's bags?
If an idol isn't played, it goes back into the game. They stopped letting people take them home a long time ago.
 

Jenny

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Right, it's back in the game. But the remaining players don't know that there were three found that didn't get played, how many might be in someone's bag now, or the total number available, or if they are out there now or being added throughout the game, correct?

Agree it would be fun to call a season Island of the Idols and the only Idols are Sandra and Rob :lol:
 

genevieve

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so I'm back in the thick of it, I guess :lol: I j.ust can't quit you, Jeff & co

When the 2nd tribe came in and the camera panned to the jury (now with Aaron), I felt super icky that everyone except the first guy is a person of color. I appreciated Missy talking about representation, and if she'd had any clue what was about to happen with the vote, she could have leaned on that a bit more. Jeff, of course, biffed it in his response. No duh it would never have occurred to call out that 2 POCs won immunity.

That said, those were two satisfying votes. I actually liked Missy (remember, I've only seen 3 episodes so far), but she really blew it with the way she tried to use Karishma, and she engineered her own elimination. I would have preferred Elizabeth (? - the swimmer) to go but she was a non-factor in this ep. I'll just have to be satisfied with the look on her face at how badly her game just got blown up.

Karishma playing up her sick/weak/spacy side was hilarious.

Go Janet! :kickass:
 

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