Skating Coach Calls out "Poisonous" NBC Olympics Skating Commentary

^This.

Weir particularly is often very nasty toward the little country skaters. I will never forgive the time he called Brendan a waste of a GP slot. Or the admission that he made that he and Tara were using the "cough" button on their mikes to laugh at him (I think that was Skate Canada last year).

When did he say those things? What were the quotes, because I don't remember any of that. I do remember J&T on their podcast saying they use the cough button when they start laughing about something, but they didn't say they were laughing AT anyone.
 
There was a stark contrast between the ice dance coverage and the other three disciplines. Tanith managed to constructively explain the difference in quality of teams and critiqued some music choices without ever taking cheap shots. The pre-show, Olympic Ice, also consistently delivered quality coverage; they managed to deliver entertaining content with lots of humor, but never at the expense of the competitors.

The Johnny and Tara show was too often just that--all about them.

Tanith and Scott made a great team. They didn’t talk over each other or try to play off of each other’s thrown shade
 
Tanith Belbin joins PJ Kwong and Ted Barton in doing fair-minded commentary that isn't based in ego.

How is J&T's commentary "based in ego"? I loved Tanith's commentary. At first I thought she was too stiff and formal, but she loosened up quite a bit and was able to sound like she was having fun. She also began offering so critiques of the skating, saying a particular team wasn't strong on an element or that they were having a bad night... very much like J&T. I appreciated it. I find her, and J&T, to be very knowledgable and articulate, and I appreciate all of it.

I was looking on Twitter during the skating, and I noticed that when Johnny would say something critical, like "This wasn't her night," or "That fall was unfortunate," people on twitter would say, "I'm living for the shade," and I thought, "What shade?" Tanith would say the same thing and no one would think it was shady.
 
I would actually like to see Johnny and Tara broken up. What they bring to the table is not necessarily terrible, but there's too much of it.

Just to explain this more in case it wasn't clear, but Dick Button and Peggy Flemming were opposites. For all of Uncle Dick's critical remarks, there was Peggy "she's a very lovely skater with nice positions" as someone zamboni'd the ice.
 
How much of this style of commentary by J&T (and similarly by TSL) is fueled by the increasing presence of "shade-throwing", "reading", "sharing tea" and other cutting forms of communication in mainstream entertainment and social media, popularized by participants in shows like "RuPaul's Drag Race"? The more outrageous and pointed and scathing the humor and comments are, with usage of a set of specialized slang, the more witty they are perceived to be.
I think it's sadly symptomatic of wider society - exemplified by our politicians on social media. And I don't just mean trump, but so many World leaders have been caught up in it recently.

It's understandable that Tara and Johnny lack self-awareness when they live in this world.
 
I was really happy with all the different commentators they had this time. I really geeked out over Charlie & Ben being all sports geeky about the ice dance teams, talking about protocols for example.

NBC really spent on figure skating and it showed.

Let's save money. Cut back on whatever they are paying Weir and cut his luggage allowance to one bag.
 
Bottom line-- there is a thread discussing Johnny and Tara. In NBC's eyes, that might be a win. If you don't like it, find a different avenue to watch. There are plenty. This coach who posted a diatribe is completely within her privilege to do so, but I prefer to hear well thought out arguments versus sour grapes or endless babble. Meh.
 
Did I miss the part where Johnny or Tara called a skater fat?

Honestly, Americans got to see more of the skating than they have in decades. Why always the focus on commentary?
 
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Did I miss the part where Johnny or Tara called a skater fat?

Honestly, Americans got to see more of the skating than they have in decades. Why always the focus on commentary?

In this particular case, according to the author of the post, because of how the tone of the commentary runs counter to what USFS is trying to accomplish with its campaign to encourage more participation in skating.
 
If that is the issue, then I don't know what USFSA can do. It is not like a skater has no access to other countries' commentary. Ask Duhamel. Even if the brilliant Tanith blabbers everywhere in the US, the skater can check out the Russian feed, where Max is calling them fat.
 
I don't think it was that cruel, either. With the occasional exception, it's the inane chatter that drives most people up the wall, not "poisonous" observations.

Exactly. Although I believe the coach Rebecca Boyden's comments do reflect how a number of people perceive NBC's T&J coverage, I do not think T&J are intending to be cruel. The problem is just the ingrained, limited format and the network's lack of knowledge about how to cover the sport, plus the sport's insular, elitist tendencies. Everyone has raved about T&J's online coverage at the Sochi Olympics. I wasn't able to hear any of it back then unfortunately, so I have nothing to compare with what they did on primetime in Pyeongchang. Honestly, I have been so often annoyed and distracted by Tara's useless chatter when skaters were moving into their first jumping passes. It got to the point where I wondered last evening if it's anxious nerves on Tara's part for the skaters that causes her to go on so loudly about, "This is what he fell on," "This is their weak jump," "She didn't land this in warm-up..." And so on ad nauseam. At times I was screaming for her to please shut-up. Still, I don't think Tara and Johnny are entirely to blame. They are not in a position apparently to suggest innovations to how the coverage is done. And the network is covering figure skating as if it's any other sport. But IT'S NOT!

Much can be said about Tara's and Johnny's numerous peccadillos and annoying comments. They have tried to adjust their behavior I noticed and they do sometimes make good observations, but overall the coverage has been the standard status quo fare. But perhaps some people are more bothered by their shtick and so the coverage issues rankle that much more. You'd think that Johnny would speak more sincerely about his own rough Olympics experiences instead of being harsh toward competitors, but it seems like that's the approach decided on, along with know-it-all soundbites. It's not just T&J though, even though it is off-putting when their remarks come off as snark-driven. Again I think it's largely a fault of the format and the fact that T&J do not know enough about the sport's history, and the format limits them, and so they only have time for a superficial, hype-driven ISU status quo approach. The network itself takes a OTT hype-driven approach to every sport.

The main NBC Olympics host and the hosts on Olympic Ice online are quite skillful and professional at what they do and very pleasant and chatty, but none of them know much about figure skating. Actually, I think Charlie White, Ben Agosto and Kristi Yamaguchi who were on Olympic Ice, might have been good for a home viewing audience to see, but it seems that they were on Olympic Ice in order to provide more expansive coverage that the primetime booth does not allow. The commentators on the online feed were rather boring, but the female commentator did have hands-on knowledge of skating. I'm sure Mike Tirico knows much more about golf and the other sports he covers. It boils down to the fact that figure skating coverage has not evolved, just as the sport itself is mired in so many serious management and leadership issues that they simply refuse to acknowledge. Who knows whats going to happen next year when/if the proposed new WTF rules are implemented. :duh: No actual problematic issues either about the discrepancies in the scoring or about the need for better training methods and nurturing of skaters were even broached on the network nor online.

All the bellyaching going on about the U.S. women's results in the press is also clueless because they don't seem to understand that these ladies did not have much chance politically and reputation-wise going into the Games in the first place. And the way NBC was focusing and banking so heavily on Nathan as the big story and face of Team USA without understanding how this outsized pressure could affect his athletic performances. He's an amazing athlete but he can't simply perform on command like a wind-up toy or a jukebox. What all of these athletes do on the ice is clearly misunderstood. The sport seems to want to treat them like a hybrid between rock stars and jumping machines, not growing adolescents and young adults whose bodies are being battered in the pursuit of elusive championship medals and Olympic glory.
 
You'd think that Johnny would speak more sincerely about his own rough Olympics experiences instead of being harsh toward competitors, but it seems like that's the approach decided on, along with know-it-all soundbites. It's not just T&J though, even though it is off-putting when their remarks come off as snark-driven. Again I think it's largely a fault of the format and the fact that T&J do not know enough about the sport's history, and the format limits them, and so they only have time for a superficial, hype-driven ISU status quo approach. The network itself takes a OTT hype-driven approach to every sport.

I think it's impossible to please everyone. For example, some accuse T&J of being "ego-driven" and "making it all about them." You're saying Johnny SHOULD have talked about his own Olympic experiences. Well... which is it? And by the way, he did talk about it. When Nathan had his rough short, Johnny talked about his 2006 Olympics...how he was in second after the short and had a ton of pressure and he screwed up his free skate. He was very candid about it. But no, he hasn't talked a lot about it because then he'd be accused of talking about himself.

If you read this thread, you'd think T&J are a real problem...that nearly everyone dislikes them or thinks they talk too much or they don't know enough about the history of the sport, or they're annoying. Well, there is a very large group of people (perhaps the majority, even) on social media who absolutely love them. That's why NBC made them the A-team. For many, many people, they are a breath of fresh air. They are honest and genuine. They are funny. As far as the public goes, they are good for skating.

As I've said before, skating commentary seems to be a very difficult job. Fans are so emotionally attached to skaters that they don't want to hear any critiques. Others want to hear the critiques, rather than cheerleading. Some viewers prefer a man in a suit; others love to see what Johnny is wearing. Some want explanations of the elements and the errors; others want minimal talking so they can hear the music.

I don't think NBC has a commentary problem any longer. Is there a problem with US skaters not being able to compete against skaters from other countries? Yup. Is there a problem with people not understanding the scoring system? Yup (although T&J take a lot more time to explain the scoring system than commentators in other sports). But it's easy to criticize the commentators, especially if you don't like them to begin with.

By the way, Scott and Tanith are doing the gala. I don't like Scott, but I think his enthusiasm is perfect for the gala. I will not complain. I'm sure there will be a bunch of people on twitter saying, "We love Scott. Fire Tara and Johnny! They're horrible!" Oh well. There will also be people wondering where Tara and Johnny are and missing them. Can't please everyone.
 
I’m just grateful that arrogant Sandra Bezic is gone forever. Scott and Tanith are the perfect team.

Tara & Johnny there just to attract giddy millennials. They have knowledge but all that matters to NBC is their silly delivery and clothing.
 
It's understandable that Tara and Johnny lack self-awareness when they live in this world.

I think that Johnny may be taking note of how he comes across, especially since NBC was so aggressive about signing Adam Rippon on the spot. The New York Post's Page Six quoted an NBC insider as saying, "“Johnny feels upstaged and threw a fit about Adam,” an NBC insider sniffed, adding, “Johnny should spend less time on his ‘Hunger Games’ hair and more time engaging the audience".

https://pagesix.com/2018/02/20/sally-fields-son-apologizes-to-adam-rippon-over-setup-attempt/

I was watching Zagitova attempting to hide her true reaction when she had won, but I certainly was not fooled. Tara was gleeful about Zagitova and the absolute pleasure she felt about Zagitova defeating Mevedeva. She articulated finding the parallels with her defeating Michelle Kwan and how that gave her the most pleasure. While I'm sure that Michelle might have felt that same thing had she beat Tara, her reaction might not have been so evident nor would she have articulated that.

I think that Johnny was empathetic and wanted Medvedeva to win. I was hoping that too since some of the "fluff" pieces done by NBC revealed more of Medvedeva's personality; I liked her.
 
@Justathoughtabl What is the evidence that the public loves T&J and that they are "good for skating"? And by evidence I don't mean the people praising them on social media. I mean e. g. TV ratings.
 
I always find the dynamics of communication fascinating. There are two phenomena I often see at play and there may be presence of both here

1. We as humans love to create additional narrative in our heads that go above and beyond what is actually said. Part of this tends to eminate from how we feel personally about the author of comments. Hints of this come when we hear reactions that speak to ego/being upstaged, speak to some real or imaginary backstory that fueled the comments, and/or go down a path of believed intentions of the comments. These elements can sometimes turn commentary into a perception of something bigger and more dramatic than what was actually said. A big risk in my mind to add this kind of narrative. I on the other hand try to filter all of this noise out while being laser focused on the words actually used. Because that's real. Not here to say what's right or wrong other than to say that's how I operate.

2. There are different levels of emotional investment in these events and what's going on on the ice. Yes, I know some athletes, but I'm largely disconnected. If you're a parent or coach I can imagine how much more sensitive you might be to commentary as you're more directly witnessing impact of what is said. As a result, you may or may not view the role of commentators to elevate (or at least preserve) the self-esteem of competitors in some way/shape/form. Me personally, I don't see that as being their role at all. To me they are to comment on what they see. If it's a crap skate it's a crap skate. Doesn't mean the athlete is a crap person. Need to separate the two, and it's the role of the skater's inner circle to reinforce that. Me, I'm never offended by commentors identifying what they see, even for skaters I totally love. Where I do get offended is if there is very specific language that's unnecessary, hurtful or rude. And to me that occurs way less than people seem to claim, as they layer in additional communication elements such as assumed intent and other things that come into play from my point 1.

So my personal point is this. If you feel something is inappropriate, it's helpful for me to understand what precisely was said with commentary on why those very specific words (I repeat, those. very. specific. words) are inappropriate. If I hear a rant launched with all the extras I point out in item 1, I disconnect. When the dust settles, I tend to find more often than not that the words themselves are just fine. This coming from someone who isn't a big fan of those two on NBC although I can tolerate them. The script posted above on J and T's commentary easily passes my own filter. If there were other things said that people want to share, I'd love to hear it.
 
@Justathoughtabl What is the evidence that the public loves T&J and that they are "good for skating"? And by evidence I don't mean the people praising them on social media. I mean e. g. TV ratings.

I was talking about social media. I did not do a scientific study. All I'm saying is that there were A LOT of positive comments on social media and among critics, so the idea you might get on this board that 90 percent of people dislike them is misleading. There were also negative comments on social media, of course, just as there were for Scott and Sandra when they were commentating.

As for rating, I really don't know how it all shakes out. I do know that many people don't get NBCSN so couldn't watch T&J until the later hour and watched the stream instead. How many switched over to NBC at the appropriate time, I don't know. I found this. I don't know how accurate it is, and I don't know if it's because of T&J or the "drama" between the Russian skaters, as the article says: http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/23/figure-skating-gives-nbcs-olympics-ratings-a-boost/
 
@Justathoughtabl I know that you yourself did not do a scientific study, but nice comments on social media are not substantive proof that T&J are popular commentators or having a positive effect on perceptions of skating. Especially when most social media channels allow you to block critics from posting on your account and/or to delete or hide negative comments.
 
@overedge And where's your proof that a majority of people watching the Olympics dislike them? I've seen maybe two legit negative comments (I'm not counting the ones that hate Johnny for homophobic reasons) on everything from Facebook to Twitter to BuzzFeed to Reddit.

I think it’s more poisonous to try and shelter skaters.
Especially in the days of social media. Even if they can block negative people, they have to see their negative comments first. Skaters need to learn how to deal with that because there's no way to avoid it unless you're totally detached from social media.
 
There was a stark contrast between the ice dance coverage and the other three disciplines. Tanith managed to constructively explain the difference in quality of teams and critiqued some music choices without ever taking cheap shots. The pre-show, Olympic Ice, also consistently delivered quality coverage; they managed to deliver entertaining content with lots of humor, but never at the expense of the competitors.

The Johnny and Tara show was too often just that--all about them.
That's it in a nutshell. I'm so thankful that Tanith chose to do commentary. I understood so much more about the technical aspect of Ice Dance. She in no way took cheap shots at any of the skaters. She really did deliver especially where a non-skating fan like me could understand more about the edges, twizzles, and even how the type of blades for Ice Dancing were different than the other blades that the Ladies and Mens skaters used.

I really learned a lot from Tanith, and that's what I would have loved to see more of with the other commentary from the other disciplines.
 
How was it "all about them"? I keep reading people saying that.
The one time I cringed was when Johnny said Toth's short program was "a nightmare," but in context, he was talking about her use of AC/DC, and he was not a fan. He wasn't talking about her skating. I still was bothered because they said nothing about her skating. But that was the one time. Here are some quotes NBC just posted:

FIGURE SKATING – NBC

Following are comments from play-by-play commentator Terry Gannon and analysts Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir on the three medal winners following tonight’s ladies’ free skate – Alina Zagitova (gold), Yevgenia Medvedeva (silver), and Kaetlyn Osmond (bronze).

Weir on Zagitova: “When she moved to Moscow at age 12 to train with her coaches, she had to learn to push herself. Now she’s pushing the entire world.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “Her time is now. It was incredible from start to finish. For someone who just came on the senior team just this season, she skates like she’s been doing it for 10 years.”

Gannon on Zagitova: “It was absolute brilliance, even if it wasn’t how she drew it up.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “She is like the Elon Musk of figure skating. She can see the things that have never been done before, and then she gets there and does them better and faster than anyone else.”

Lipinski on Medvedeva: “She delivered. She is so mentally tough. Alina Zagitova may have been stealing her thunder, but she’s not going down without a fight…no matter what, she skated as if to say ‘This is my time, not yours.’”

Gannon on Medvedeva: “I don’t know if we just watched gold, but I know we just watched greatness.”

Weir on Medvedeva and Zagitova: “Both of them are worthy champions of this Olympic Games. I felt the warmth and splendor of Medvedeva, I felt the calculated coolness of Zagitova. It’s an understatement to say they both deserved it.”

Weir on Medvedeva prior to the ladies’ free skate: “To quote Elizabeth Taylor, ‘Now is the time for guts and guile.’ Yevgenia Medvedeva has been the gold standard of figure skating for two whole years, which is pretty much unheard of. The only person she had to one-up was herself. A fire burns deep in her soul to be the Olympic ladies’ champion.”

Gannon on Osmond: “Kaetlyn Osmond brought her ‘A-game’ to the Olympics.”

Lipinski on Osmond: “That is how you fight for an Olympic podium. She brought that out.”

Weir on Osmond: “A swan has gotten her wings. Wow that was pleasing. The technique was beautiful and her style was excellent. It was all about putting it all together. That was the best I have ever seen her deliver a free skate.”

Weir on this year’s competition: “It was the most heartbreakingly beautiful ladies’ competition that I’ve ever seen.”

In addition, following are comments from Lipinski and Weir on Team USA’s Bradie Tennell, Karen Chen, and Mirai Nagasu.

Lipinski on Tennell: “Three and a half months ago, no one knew who Bradie Tennell was. Since then, she’s become a national champion and has skated in an Olympic team event. The pressure on Olympic ice is so intense, of course you might see her crack just a little bit.”

Weir on Chen: “There is a wonderful integrity to the performances Karen Chen gives…there were just too many technical mistakes.”

Lipinski on Nagasu: “That was definitely not the free skate she was hoping for…it’s just disappointing.”

The coach was talking mainly about their criticisms of lower-ranked skaters.
 
@Justathoughtabl I know that you yourself did not do a scientific study, but nice comments on social media are not substantive proof that T&J are popular commentators or having a positive effect on perceptions of skating. Especially when most social media channels allow you to block critics from posting on your account and/or to delete or hide negative comments.

Who said anything about substantive proof? I don't have it. I'm speaking anecdotally, like everyone else here. And I don't think twitter would allow Johnny and Tara to stop people from making negative comments about them. Instagram, yes.
 
Just to explain this more in case it wasn't clear, but Dick Button and Peggy Flemming were opposites. For all of Uncle Dick's critical remarks, there was Peggy "she's a very lovely skater with nice positions" as someone zamboni'd the ice.

They, and Terry Gannon, were the best.
They weren't perfect. They often talked too much and Dick's criticisms were often too sharp. But as a legend of the sport, he did have the authority to make them, which T&J often do not. My main problem is Tara, who needs to stop talking at length over performances, often with inanities.
 

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