Skating Coach Calls out "Poisonous" NBC Olympics Skating Commentary

[Meteorlight]

I really didn't mind Johnny and Tara's commentary at all, though of course, I'm thankful Tanith covered ice dance (she and Ben are my favorite new-gen commentators). I think T&J get a bad rep for not being sugary sweet and "talking too much," but honestly, they get paid to talk, and much of the mainstream audience want to hear that stuff or they'd find some of the in-between elements boring (witnessed this happen first hand with a non-skating fan friend).

Were they perfect - NO! But they at least do a much better job explaining the new system of scoring etc. than Scott ever did (I love Scott, but I don't think he ever bothered to really learn COP). Also, I didn't think they were catty in any case - they might be harsh when someone messed up or had a misfit of a program, but if they just praised everybody, how is the audience supposed to figure out why someone is much lower in scoring?

When I first saw this thread, I really thought the "poisonous" accusation was going to be about Tara's uncanny ability to be a HUGE JINX to skaters (Tara: Watch this jump it will be huge and amazing ... Skater: falls ... repeat)

 

[Nadya]

I actually enjoyed T&J's commentary and didn't find it poisonous in the slightest. Button was a lot more snide and a lot more subjective in his commentary. I like the way T&J found a way to explain the new scoring rules and explain technical details that are frankly beyond an average viewer.

 

[Rock2]

I don't know. Ask the coach.

In the absence of any specific quotes, it's coming off to me as a coach who is jumping in to defend skaters who are criticized. Happy to change my perspective if she actually provides examples....but....criticism = poisonous is not necessarlya true in all cases.

My thinking is, if you're training or conditioning ANYONE to do ANYTHING in the public eye in this day and age of media, you best be focusing on installing coping skills to deal with all the good and bad that comes with it. Social media will almost always be more difficult to take than traditional media and there's very little you can do to control that element. Prepare your charges the right way. Much more sensible than trying to control your environment. Fruitless exercise.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

If they didn't like the music or didn't think it was Olympic music - they made that comment a couple of times - they should keep it to themselves. Snark about it off camera but I don't care for the music comments, just commentate on the actual skating. Let us do the snark/mean comments

If I recall correctly, Terry said something about liking the music and said, "What'd you think, John?" That's when Johnny said the music was a nightmare. Agreed with others that he should have just said it wasn't his taste, but saying you hate a piece of music isn't "snark," in my opinion. And one error does not make him "poisonous."

 

[Justathoughtabl]

My point is that if you think J&T are good for the sport and are popular, you haven't really explained why we should believe that too.

You see people saying nice things on social media, but there's also posts like the ones quoted in this story:

https://bustedcoverage.com/2018/02/...vett-toth-ac-dc-video-photos-winter-olympics/

And if people can delete or hide social media posts they don't like, then social media isn't a reliable measure of opinion.

If J&T have been good for the sport - how? Are more people skating? Are more people watching skating broadcasts or going to skating shows? And if that's happening, how are those linked to what J&T are doing?

I don't know. Were more people skating and watching skating when Scott and Sandra were doing commentary? I think you're putting a lot of the commentators' shoulders. All I said was that I'd seen a lot of positive comments on social media, and that the overall attitude on this board does not necessarily reflect how most people feel about them. I also acknowledged that there's plenty of negative coverage about them too.

It gets pretty wearying to be a fan of Johnny's and read this board and use it as figure skating fans do. I'd like to say something nice about him because I like him, and that's my opinion. Others have their cheer threads. And when I do, I get chased around and pressed to defend my opinions and thoughts. Either that, or people ignore it (which I'd prefer, personally), presumably hoping the post slides down the board and disappears. So most of the time, I don't even bother.

Here's an article about how polarizing they are. I won't make a new thread for it because I don't want to start up a whole new firestorm.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...inski-and-johnny-weir/?utm_term=.64ccf68c74e0

 

[kwanfan1818]

Sorry, but "nightmare" isn't a professional description. They could have explained that it was disjointed, too big for the skater's ability to carry it, a stylistic mismatch to the movement, or something relevant to PCS and/or skating. They might even have explained what made it so, and/or the difficulty in choosing musical cuts to fit the elements, etc. It's the difference between commentary and info-tainment. Skating deserves better and gets it occasionally.

 

[Prancer]

And it's not anecdotal to say things like "they have been good for skating" or "people love them". Those are statements of fact. If they're your opinion you should make that clear.

Those are clearly not statements of fact .

There are people who love T&J and people who don't, just as it is with all commentators. T&J did get a lot of positive social media response and a lot of good press response, too. There was also negative social media response and negative press. I can post links to show both and will if asked, but really--what difference does it make? Is anyone surprised that there are people who like T&J and people who don't?

People here hate commentators. Even if we like commentators, it's relative--we like some in contrast to others.

 

[Yazmeen]

My basic issue with Tara and Johnny is that it's too much about them; Tara is all "I, I, I" (even if she's not once again rehashing her Olympic experience) and Johnny is all "look at me" and "Russia, Russia, Russia." I just wish they'd tone down their fabulousness once in while and really concentrate on the actual skating.

I truly miss Dick and Peggy.

 

[GreatLakesGal]

I don't miss Dick and Peggy but I do miss Jim Mckay and ABC's coverage of the Winter Olympics.

Overall, I'm fine with Tara and Johnny. Commentators have to do what the network tells them to do or they're out. If Tara is relating her own experiences as a skater to a current skater, it's a good bet that this is because a producer has told her to do just that.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

Those are clearly not statements of fact .

There are people who love T&J and people who don't, just as it is with all commentators. T&J did get a lot of positive social media response and a lot of good press response, too. There was also negative social media response and negative press. I can post links to show both and will if asked, but really--what difference does it make? Is anyone surprised that there are people who like T&J and people who don't?

People here hate commentators. Even if we like commentators, it's relative--we like some in contrast to others.

This is more or less what I've been trying to say.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

I don't miss Dick and Peggy but I do miss Jim Mckay and ABC's coverage of the Winter Olympics.

Overall, I'm fine with Tara and Johnny. Commentators have to do what the network tells them to do or they're out. If Tara is relating her own experiences as a skater to a current skater, it's a good bet that this is because a producer has told her to do just that.

There have been people on this board who called for Johnny to talk more about his own experiences. So basically, everyone has different ideas of what makes for good commentary.

 

[judiz]

I am definitely not a fan of commentators speaking over the music but I’d rather watch Johnny and Tara than listen to Scott screaming at every jump and blame every fall on tired legs.

 

[Prancer]

I really didn't mind Johnny and Tara's commentary at all, though of course, I'm thankful Tanith covered ice dance (she and Ben are my favorite new-gen commentators). I think T&J get a bad rep for not being sugary sweet and "talking too much," but honestly, they get paid to talk, and much of the mainstream audience want to hear that stuff or they'd find some of the in-between elements boring (witnessed this happen first hand with a non-skating fan friend).

^This.

Figure skating commentators do not do commentary for people who know the difference between a flying camel and a sit spin. They do commentary for people who tune in to see sparkly costumes and drama. And people who have no clue are not sitting on the edges of their seats waiting to see if those ice dancers can do those choctaws on the right edges in that corner. Figure skating is entertainment for them, no more.

Some of them might like more technical commentary, but I doubt most of them do because they aren't watching to learn the ins and outs of skating. They want to be entertained; inside and outside edges have very limited entertainment value.

We, OTOH, get impatient at yet another explanation of the bonus after the two-minute mark, roll our eyes when Terry Gannon AGAIN tells us that Tara Lipinski won a gold medal, and don't like a lot of talking because it interferes with our concentration. Stop yapping so we can focus on the choctaws!

None of this is new with Johnny and Tara. When it was Dick and Peggy, people complained that they talked too much, that Dick was mean, that Dick was mean but that was okay because Dick was so insightful, that Dick was too sharp, that Dick was senile, that Dick was so knowledgable, that Dick was too old and was no longer current, etc. Peggy was useless, too easy, too focused on costumes and hair and all that, blah blah blah, but she was pleasant and countered Dick. And they all talked too much.

Then we had Scott, who was either positive and fun or gushy, shrieking and annoying; he had no clue how judging worked (this was, I am sad to say, a valid criticism) even before COP and his biases were overt. Everyone was united in totally hating Tom Hammond, of course . And they both talked too much.

Now we have Johnny and Tara and surprise! We find them annoying. Or refreshing. Or something. And we think they talk too much. But we aren't the target audience and I don't think we can assess how the general public reacts to them based on what we think.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

^This.

Figure skating commentators do not do commentary for people who know the difference between a flying camel and a sit spin. They do commentary for people who tune in to see sparkly costumes and drama. And people who have no clue are not sitting on the edges of their seats waiting to see if those ice dancers can do those choctaws on the right edges in that corner. Figure skating is entertainment for them, no more.

Some of them might like more technical commentary, but I doubt most of them do because they aren't watching to learn the ins and outs of skating. They want to be entertained; inside and outside edges have very limited entertainment value.

We, OTOH, get impatient at yet another explanation of the bonus after the two-minute mark, roll our eyes when Terry Gannon AGAIN tells us that Tara Lipinski won a gold medal, and don't like a lot of talking because it interferes with our concentration. Stop yapping so we can focus on the choctaws!

None of this is new with Johnny and Tara. When it was Dick and Peggy, people complained that they talked too much, that Dick was mean, that Dick was mean but that was okay because Dick was so insightful, that Dick was too sharp, that Dick was senile, that Dick was so knowledgable, that Dick was too old and was no longer current, etc. Peggy was useless, too easy, too focused on costumes and hair and all that, blah blah blah, but she was pleasant and countered Dick. And they all talked too much.

Then we had Scott, who was either positive and fun or gushy, shrieking and annoying; he had no clue how judging worked (this was, I am sad to say, a valid criticism) even before COP and his biases were overt. Everyone was united in totally hating Tom Hammond, of course . And they both talked too much.

Now we have Johnny and Tara and surprise! We find them annoying. Or refreshing. Or something. And we think they talk too much. But we aren't the target audience and I don't think we can assess how the general public reacts to them based on what we think.

Thank you for articulating what I was trying to say, better than I could.

 

[MacMadame]

Figure skating commentators do not do commentary for people who know the difference between a flying camel and a sit spin. They do commentary for people who tune in to see sparkly costumes and drama. And people who have no clue are not sitting on the edges of their seats waiting to see if those ice dancers can do those choctaws on the right edges in that corner. Figure skating is entertainment for them, no more.

I do think people want an idea of how that skate will be scored. They want enough info to be able to follow along. They don't necessarily know or care what a choctaw is. But if it's going to drop the skater they liked the best down in the standings, having a commentator say "they missed the choctaw and will only get a level 2 instead of 4" is helpful. (Which is why I think those sorts of things were said on the broadcast during the short dance.)

In sports I don't know much about, I love it when the commentators give those sorts of insights, identify highlight elements, and give a bit of history about the athlete so I can place them in context.

For figure skating, most of the time I don't need the commentators at all. I often say "oh, that twizzle didn't look right" 5 seconds before they do to the point that it's become a drinking game at my house. But I do appreciate it when I am unsure. And I find it helpful when they place a skater I am less familiar with into context by talking about their results this season, what their strength and weaknesses are, etc.

The only thing I don't like is when they babble about something completely inconsequential (Suzy Skater likes to knit and the color purple and just adopted a pet iguana) in the middle of the program. And I am pretty sure that the target audience doesn't like that either. Because, if you are tuning in just to watch skating, it's hard to enjoy the skating if you can't even hear the music!

But we aren't the target audience and I don't think we can assess how the general public reacts to them based on what we think.

I think we can access it by how they keep getting side gigs not related to skating. Like commentating for the Closing Ceremonies or some awards show. Someone is getting the right sort of feedback about them or they wouldn't get those gigs.

 

[leigh466]

Here is all I have to say: My brother, who has been kind enough to indulge me in watching figure skating with me since we became roommates in the fall, and had pretty much never watched previously, was very pleased and gratified to hear that J&T were being referred to here on FSU as "Botox and Bird's Nest."

Their cruelty deserved nothing less. I hope the moniker makes it out to the mainstream press.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Here is all I have to say: My brother, who has been kind enough to indulge me in watching figure skating with me since we became roommates in the fall, and had pretty much never watched previously, was very pleased and gratified to hear that J&T were being referred to here on FSU as "Botox and Bird's Nest."

Their cruelty deserved nothing less. I hope the moniker makes it out to the mainstream press.

Actually, "Botox and Birdhead", but still...

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

^This.

(snipped for space)

This is all wrong. They don't do critical analysis for obvious reasons. If they spent a lot of time on edges and technical replays, it would highlight how bad or corrupt the tech panel is. They don't spend time breaking down the components scores, because it would highlight how much of a sham they are. They would either be forced to lie or they would be forced to awkwardly point out how many things they say are the opposite of what is reflected in the scores.

If you want to grow the sport, you explain it to people. You don't have them tune in and say "bah, they don't really care anyway". If you're knowledgeable and you don't care enough to explain it to them, they aren't going to care enough to learn. If all you want is for them to tune in once every four years and treat it like a processional fashion show with snarky commentary, that's all you are going to get.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Meanwhile, while the Americans are treating individual figure skating like the Hunger Games hosts, the Russians treat it like handwaving choreography and jump drills for points. Guess who is winning all the competitions?

 

[Prancer]

This is all wrong.

Oh. Well. I stand corrected.

I would point out that NBC is not interested in growing the sport; it is interested in ratings, which means it is interested in entertainment. NBC very much wants those once every four years fans to have a good time watching skating at the Olympics. If NBC wanted to grow the sport, they wouldn't hold the skating world hostage to their whims.

I could provide a quote from am NBC executive about how he gears figure skating coverage to what his mother wants to see in her retirement home in Florida.

But I am probaby wrong about all that as well.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

@Prancer

USFS is interested in growing the sport. And winning competitions. Or at least they should be. They have contractual obligations with NBC. It's not a coincidence that one country treating figure skating like sequins and snark once every four years increasingly stinks, and the countries who are treating it like a serious sport don't.

ETA: It's also not clear that NBC execs know what they are doing. Worst Olympic ratings for them in history, and they will now have to compensate advertisers with lots of free ad time.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/24/media/nbc-olympics-ratings-12-billion-rights/index.html

I would say that in results oriented business, both USFS and NBC are missing the mark.

 

[Prancer]

@Prancer

USFS is interested in growing the sport. And winning competitions. Or at least they should be. They have contractual obligations with NBC. It's not a coincidence that one country treating figure skating like sequins and snark once every four years increasingly stinks, and the countries who are treating it like a serious sport don't.

ETA: It's also not clear that NBC execs know what they are doing. Worst Olympic ratings for them in history, and they will now have to compensate advertisers with lots of free ad time.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/24/media/nbc-olympics-ratings-12-billion-rights/index.html

Okay, so who are we blaming for the commentary again--the USFS or NBC? I am not quite clear on what you are saying here.

I am aware of the ratings, thanks; I don't think that has a whole lot to do with NBC knowing or not knowing what it is doing. But again, I am probably wrong.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

I hope we can disagree without being childish about it. I disagreed with your post and wanted to offer a different viewpoint, it was not my intent to offend you. I'm sorry that's the way you took it. It was only disagreement.

Okay, so who are we blaming for the commentary again--the USFS or NBC? I am not quite clear on what you are saying here.

I think it's a partnership. USFS has an incentive for NBC to promote figure skating in the United States. NBC has an incentive for USFS to produce quality figure skaters that 1) their viewers enjoy watching and 2) their viewers believe can win or represent their country well.

I'm simply pointing out that some countries take figure skating seriously. Some don't. It's not a surprise which ones are doing better in ratings and revenue and competition results. I would like to see both USFS and NBC change their approach.

 

[Prancer]

I hope we can disagree without being childish about it. I disagreed with your post and wanted to offer a different viewpoint, it was not my intent to offend you. I'm sorry that's the way you took it. It was only disagreement.

I am not offended; I don't think that you are particularly well grounded on this subject , but since we are both expressing opinions here, I don't think I have the right to simply say that you are wrong when there is no right or wrong answer.

And now I am childish. So over and out.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

I am not offended; I don't think that you are particularly well grounded on this subject , but since we are both expressing opinions here, I don't think I have the right to simply say that you are wrong when there is no right or wrong answer.

And now I am childish. So over and out.

Well, I attempted to offer an olive branch and you declined. Good for you. I have actual experience with television and radio broadcasts and production. How about you?

And there's the old argument: "scoreboard!" What are the ratings and revenue and competition results in Russia and Japan compared to the U.S.? What are the trends? And you think USFS and NBC are doing a good job? Ha, hardly. They don't take it serious. You suggested nobody take it serious. What else do you expect?

 

[Vagabond]

made me want to go find him, slap him, and shout in his face

These few words are more poisonous than anything ascribed to Dick Button, Tara Lipinski, Johnny Weir or any other commentator in this thread.

Get help.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Criticisms of their skating commentary aside, I just watched the closing ceremonies and I think Tara and Johnny did a fine job. Tara's voice wasn't clear at times, maybe she's too quiet or trails, and it seemed like they were shoehorning in figure skating mentions once in awhile, but overall I think they were good. Nice enthusiasm. Certainly better than Katie Couric.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Weir on Medvedeva and Zagitova: “Both of them are worthy champions of this Olympic Games. I felt the warmth and splendor of Medvedeva, I felt the calculated coolness of Zagitova. It’s an understatement to say they both deserved it.”

I rewatched Kim in Sochi. I'm sorry but neither Zag or Med can hold a candle to her. It's the perfectionism in the elements. The straight legs, the wrap at the ankle, the pointed toes, the soft landings and run out. Med can probably do that in a couple years. Zag at 15 is too undeveloped to tell. The Russians are exploiting the rules but neither end up with a result to touch Kim.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

I rewatched Kim in Sochi. I'm sorry but neither Zag or Med can hold a candle to her. It's the perfectionism in the elements. The straight legs, the wrap at the ankle, the pointed toes, the soft landings and run out. Med can probably do that in a couple years. Zag at 15 is too undeveloped to tell. The Russians are exploiting the rules but neither end up with a result to touch Kim.

Oh gosh, nobody in this generation could hold a candle to Yuna or Mao. Gracie showed glimpses of being great with a completely different style at times, but never panned out. And Sotoko...God love the Tiny Queen. I remember watching her first two years and she was nothing but belittled for her jumps. But I could see the beauty in her skating right away, she was my favorite of the lot. Not as talented as Yuna or Mao but she gets more out of her skating than anyone. I truly admire what she has accomplished as an artist and in this sport.

I think it will be Kaori's time in the next few years though. She's the first one I've seen since Yuna and Mao retired that gave me that feeling like she's a star. Immense talent and with a little more maturity in the coming years, I'm excited to see how good she will become.