Skating Coach Calls out "Poisonous" NBC Olympics Skating Commentary

[overedge]

https://www.facebook.com/rboyden/posts/10216451609989718

 

[Wyliefan]

 

[Holy Headband]

I didn't watch the Olympics with Johnny and Tara's commentary, but based on the quotes and clips I've seen on Twitter this sounds absolutely right.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

Over the top reaction. Johnny and Tara's commentary is no more "cruel" than Dick Button's was.

 

[Wyliefan]

I don't think it was that cruel, either. With the occasional exception, it's the inane chatter that drives most people up the wall, not "poisonous" observations.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

This reaction right here... People just want to tear apart Johnny and Tara. It's not really about protecting the athletes from perceived cruelty, is it? Well, have at it.

 

[Wyliefan]

If you'll look at my second comment in the thread, I think you'll find you're mistaken.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

If you'll look at my second comment in the thread, I think you'll find you're mistaken.

Your second comment hadn't posted when I posted mine. As for the chatter, that's a whole other issue. I felt Tara was talking too much. However, I do believe that she spoke less in the later events. I think they read their twitter feed. Maybe she took it to heart.

 

[CassAgain]

There was a stark contrast between the ice dance coverage and the other three disciplines. Tanith managed to constructively explain the difference in quality of teams and critiqued some music choices without ever taking cheap shots. The pre-show, Olympic Ice, also consistently delivered quality coverage; they managed to deliver entertaining content with lots of humor, but never at the expense of the competitors.

The Johnny and Tara show was too often just that--all about them.

 

[tony]

I agree that I didn't think the commentary was really that bad. Just a lot of talking, reminding viewers of how the scores work, all of that. Dick Button really was much, much more critical back in the day. Remember, the 'fridge break' comment was about an American skater! If the skater had a really bad day, Johnny and/or Tara might have said something to that extent. But I don't remember them really going out of their way to be nasty. I really hope this coach doesn't follow The Skating Lesson.

Everyone in this sport, whether a casual fan or a historian or a coach or a rink mom, has opinions about what is good and what is bad. It's a judged, subjective sport and people that watch all have their preferences about what they like. And people like to talk about their opinions all over social media and the internet itself. This isn't exclusive to figure skating. Some people know how to go about it in a critical and positive manner, some don't. This wouldn't be a fascinating sport if everyone agreed on everything.

 

[Justathoughtabl]

How was it "all about them"? I keep reading people saying that.
The one time I cringed was when Johnny said Toth's short program was "a nightmare," but in context, he was talking about her use of AC/DC, and he was not a fan. He wasn't talking about her skating. I still was bothered because they said nothing about her skating. But that was the one time. Here are some quotes NBC just posted:

FIGURE SKATING – NBC

Following are comments from play-by-play commentator Terry Gannon and analysts Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir on the three medal winners following tonight’s ladies’ free skate – Alina Zagitova (gold), Yevgenia Medvedeva (silver), and Kaetlyn Osmond (bronze).

Weir on Zagitova: “When she moved to Moscow at age 12 to train with her coaches, she had to learn to push herself. Now she’s pushing the entire world.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “Her time is now. It was incredible from start to finish. For someone who just came on the senior team just this season, she skates like she’s been doing it for 10 years.”

Gannon on Zagitova: “It was absolute brilliance, even if it wasn’t how she drew it up.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “She is like the Elon Musk of figure skating. She can see the things that have never been done before, and then she gets there and does them better and faster than anyone else.”

Lipinski on Medvedeva: “She delivered. She is so mentally tough. Alina Zagitova may have been stealing her thunder, but she’s not going down without a fight…no matter what, she skated as if to say ‘This is my time, not yours.’”

Gannon on Medvedeva: “I don’t know if we just watched gold, but I know we just watched greatness.”

Weir on Medvedeva and Zagitova: “Both of them are worthy champions of this Olympic Games. I felt the warmth and splendor of Medvedeva, I felt the calculated coolness of Zagitova. It’s an understatement to say they both deserved it.”

Weir on Medvedeva prior to the ladies’ free skate: “To quote Elizabeth Taylor, ‘Now is the time for guts and guile.’ Yevgenia Medvedeva has been the gold standard of figure skating for two whole years, which is pretty much unheard of. The only person she had to one-up was herself. A fire burns deep in her soul to be the Olympic ladies’ champion.”

Gannon on Osmond: “Kaetlyn Osmond brought her ‘A-game’ to the Olympics.”

Lipinski on Osmond: “That is how you fight for an Olympic podium. She brought that out.”

Weir on Osmond: “A swan has gotten her wings. Wow that was pleasing. The technique was beautiful and her style was excellent. It was all about putting it all together. That was the best I have ever seen her deliver a free skate.”

Weir on this year’s competition: “It was the most heartbreakingly beautiful ladies’ competition that I’ve ever seen.”

In addition, following are comments from Lipinski and Weir on Team USA’s Bradie Tennell, Karen Chen, and Mirai Nagasu.

Lipinski on Tennell: “Three and a half months ago, no one knew who Bradie Tennell was. Since then, she’s become a national champion and has skated in an Olympic team event. The pressure on Olympic ice is so intense, of course you might see her crack just a little bit.”

Weir on Chen: “There is a wonderful integrity to the performances Karen Chen gives…there were just too many technical mistakes.”

Lipinski on Nagasu: “That was definitely not the free skate she was hoping for…it’s just disappointing.”

 

[Xela M]

Tara's commentary is just awful. Absolutely awful. There would be hope for Johnny to be more professional if he wasn't partnered with her

 

[Justathoughtabl]

Here's an interesting article about Dick Button from 2002. An excerpt:
http://articles.latimes.com/2002/jan/07/sports/sp-20905

Button also says his recovery was "an eye-opening experience, a life redefining experience. I think more clearly about many things. Every day is more important. What I went through makes one feel like telling people you love them now. I've vowed to be kinder, have a more tender heart. But I will still be critical of skaters."

Slutskaya knows about that.

Gannon, a good college basketball player at North Carolina State, thinks that if the athletes criticized by Button listen and learn, they will be better skaters.

Peggy Fleming, another broadcast partner and a pretty fair skater herself, says she understands how Button does come off sometimes as mean-spirited.

"But Dick is always trying to criticize in a constructive way," she says. "If you are smart enough to listen, you will learn. He never tries to be hurtful. But some people do take criticism better than others."

Most of this generation of figure skating fans know Button only for his acerbic TV work, but Fleming calls Button "the father of our sport," for good reason.

 

[misskarne]

Over the top reaction. Johnny and Tara's commentary is no more "cruel" than Dick Button's was.

I happen to think Dick Button's commentary is being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole, too. Some of the stuff he was tweeting about the little country skaters made me want to go find him, slap him, and shout in his face "you do realise that little countries don't have anywhere near the resources the bigger countries do, right?"

Johnny and Tara are horrible, bitchy, catty commentators and they do it for the sake of being so. It's not helpful on a lot of matters, but also, for a sport where one of the stereotypes is that the competitors are bitchy and catty, is this really the public image we want to be promoting?

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

How much of this style of commentary by J&T (and similarly by TSL) is fueled by the increasing presence of "shade-throwing", "reading", "sharing tea" and other cutting forms of communication in mainstream entertainment and social media, popularized by participants in shows like "RuPaul's Drag Race"? The more outrageous and pointed and scathing the humor and comments are, with usage of a set of specialized slang, the more witty they are perceived to be.

I've socialized with, and made many friends in, my local LGBTQ community (including many people participating in the drag culture) over the last 40 years of my life - and such humor is nothing new to me, but was once very much a niche thing over most of that time. Now, due to more relaxed societal attitudes and the popularity of shows like "RPDR", that style of humor and expression seems now to be very popular with, and co-opted by, young people in particular, much as hip-hop and rap have with non-POC individuals.

They seem to see it as a trendy, unconventional means of expression from a community that most did not grow up in but find relevant to adopt as part of a sort of culturally hip, rebellious persona, complete with attitudes and speech patterns.

 

[mag]

How was it "all about them"? I keep reading people saying that.
The one time I cringed was when Johnny said Toth's short program was "a nightmare," but in context, he was talking about her use of AC/DC, and he was not a fan. He wasn't talking about her skating. I still was bothered because they said nothing about her skating. But that was the one time. Here are some quotes NBC just posted:

FIGURE SKATING – NBC

Following are comments from play-by-play commentator Terry Gannon and analysts Tara Lipinski and Johnny Weir on the three medal winners following tonight’s ladies’ free skate – Alina Zagitova (gold), Yevgenia Medvedeva (silver), and Kaetlyn Osmond (bronze).

Weir on Zagitova: “When she moved to Moscow at age 12 to train with her coaches, she had to learn to push herself. Now she’s pushing the entire world.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “Her time is now. It was incredible from start to finish. For someone who just came on the senior team just this season, she skates like she’s been doing it for 10 years.”

Gannon on Zagitova: “It was absolute brilliance, even if it wasn’t how she drew it up.”

Lipinski on Zagitova: “She is like the Elon Musk of figure skating. She can see the things that have never been done before, and then she gets there and does them better and faster than anyone else.”

Lipinski on Medvedeva: “She delivered. She is so mentally tough. Alina Zagitova may have been stealing her thunder, but she’s not going down without a fight…no matter what, she skated as if to say ‘This is my time, not yours.’”

Gannon on Medvedeva: “I don’t know if we just watched gold, but I know we just watched greatness.”

Weir on Medvedeva and Zagitova: “Both of them are worthy champions of this Olympic Games. I felt the warmth and splendor of Medvedeva, I felt the calculated coolness of Zagitova. It’s an understatement to say they both deserved it.”

Weir on Medvedeva prior to the ladies’ free skate: “To quote Elizabeth Taylor, ‘Now is the time for guts and guile.’ Yevgenia Medvedeva has been the gold standard of figure skating for two whole years, which is pretty much unheard of. The only person she had to one-up was herself. A fire burns deep in her soul to be the Olympic ladies’ champion.”

Gannon on Osmond: “Kaetlyn Osmond brought her ‘A-game’ to the Olympics.”

Lipinski on Osmond: “That is how you fight for an Olympic podium. She brought that out.”

Weir on Osmond: “A swan has gotten her wings. Wow that was pleasing. The technique was beautiful and her style was excellent. It was all about putting it all together. That was the best I have ever seen her deliver a free skate.”

Weir on this year’s competition: “It was the most heartbreakingly beautiful ladies’ competition that I’ve ever seen.”

In addition, following are comments from Lipinski and Weir on Team USA’s Bradie Tennell, Karen Chen, and Mirai Nagasu.

Lipinski on Tennell: “Three and a half months ago, no one knew who Bradie Tennell was. Since then, she’s become a national champion and has skated in an Olympic team event. The pressure on Olympic ice is so intense, of course you might see her crack just a little bit.”

Weir on Chen: “There is a wonderful integrity to the performances Karen Chen gives…there were just too many technical mistakes.”

Lipinski on Nagasu: “That was definitely not the free skate she was hoping for…it’s just disappointing.”

Yep, a whole list of little country Skaters there.

 

[snoopy]

The thing about Dick and Peggy was you had a good cop and a bad cop. Now there are two bad cops. I think Val is correct and we are in a mean girls culture right now. But for the longer term, I wouldn't mind having a good cop between the two commentators.

 

[misskarne]

Yep, a whole list of little country Skaters there.

^This.

Weir particularly is often very nasty toward the little country skaters. I will never forgive the time he called Brendan a waste of a GP slot. Or the admission that he made that he and Tara were using the "cough" button on their mikes to laugh at him (I think that was Skate Canada last year).

 

[caseyedwards]

I know I could give an example of them being unnecessarily harsh but I would have liked an example from the author. Ac/dc? “Couldn’t understand!” Is if all the implied popping is a choice? Why didn’t they fall?

 

[maatTheViking]

I watched commentary with Belinda and Jim - and not Johnny and Tara. Even if Jim was clueless, it was endearing how excited he was with the skaters - he cried and celebrated with them.

Belinda was ok, she did try to point out why skaters got lower marks but mostly not mean.

I did miss Tanith for Ice Dance. I remember Tanith on IceNetwork, and even for low level dance couples at US nationals, she always said something nice, along with technical explanations, like simple holds, or speed or ice coverage.

 

[MacMadame]

I wouldn't mind having a good cop between the two commentators.

That's what Terry Gannon is for. (I think he often does a good job at it too.)

I did think Tara was particularly bad at this Olympics. Last night she seemed positively gleeful when skaters fell on a jump. But overall I don't think they are any worse than past commentators and at least they do provide technical information that past commentators like Hamilton didn't seem to be able to do.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

I used to be a sports broadcaster. Commentary needs to be critical but fair. For all skaters, elite or back of the pack, I think it should be pointed out what they do well, what areas they have improved upon, and what is missing that keeps them lower in the standings compared to other skaters. The commentators really need to do their homework. They can't be biased, or if they feel their personal bias is entering into their commentary, that can be ok as long as they acknowledge it.

I would actually like to see Johnny and Tara broken up. What they bring to the table is not necessarily terrible, but there's too much of it.

 

[snoopy]

Terry has no authority from expertise, however, so I don't consider it equal to Peggy's role (even if she was kind of useless anyway).

 

[misskarne]

I watched commentary with Belinda and Jim - and not Johnny and Tara. Even if Jim was clueless, it was endearing how excited he was with the skaters - he cried and celebrated with them.

Jim was the good kind of clueless commentator. He sounded like he was having a blast and enjoying everything. And every now and again he'd get something right and he was so proud of himself (Like when he got Kailani's skating club right).

 

[Willin]

I think what the skating community thinks is very different from what others think. If you look at mainstream articles and social media, you'll find that people who don't know skating love Tara and Johnny's commentary.

Personally, while I hated it between Olympics, they seem to be doing a good job at the Olympics. There have been comments here and there that have rubbed me the wrong way, but at the very least they're staying on topic and not chatting about random things and personal anecdotes like they do at every other competition.

 

[Mrs. P]

From a pop culture sense, Johnny and Tara worked great. But even then, you didn't really need that if you just followed Leslie Jones' tweets.

But the problem is that they are also skaters and should provide some knowledgeable information. And they do, but they also miss the mark. There were several times that Tara said factually incorrect things, such as argue that judges were overlooking Medvedeva's lutz in the SP when she doesn't have a lutz in the SP (they showed her triple flip, so yeah, it's going to look flutzy!).

I definitely had friends who already were borderline on taking the sport seriously and J&T didn't really help persuade them to think otherwise. But I had other friends who loved them for the first reason I stated above or did find it helpful -- Leslie Jones made several references that she missed watching on TV (cause she watched live in Korea) because she didn't have Johnny and Tara explaining things to her.

 

[DimaToe]

I think it’s more poisonous to try and shelter skaters.

 

[Cachoo]

Judging from what I heard I think the poster might have been more concerned about Johnny. I wondered if he would hear it about his "fish" comment. I don't want the broadcasters to be someone they are not; I found Tanith and Scott wonderfully positive and honest. But that sort of "sugar" fits them just as "spice" fits Johnny and Tara. All are informative and all believe in the sport and in the participants. Frankly I think this year's team was the best assembled by NBC and I hope we see them again.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Tanith Belbin joins PJ Kwong and Ted Barton in doing fair-minded commentary that isn't based in ego.

 

[overedge]

I think what the skating community thinks is very different from what others think. If you look at mainstream articles and social media, you'll find that people who don't know skating love Tara and Johnny's commentary.

I think you will also find people who don't know skating and who *don't* love J&T's commentary, E. G. because they talk too much ), or they comment on things that non-skating fans can figure out for themselves (like if a skater falls down a lot and cries at the end, the skater isn't happy with their performance).