Skate Canada 2022 Olympics selection criteria

[marbri]

A witness “ with no skin in the game“ would be a much more unbiased witnes. BTW have you all not seen Megan’s Insta story where she backtracked and acknowledged that Skate Canada did follow their criteria in choosing J/R

I did. She also pointed out the part where the decision would be made on January 9, day after the FS. Did you miss that part? . Because all the drama aside I think that is the crux of the issue, that the decision was made prior to the FS in favour of J/R and that SC didn't give them a heads up that they were out of the equation (not just about the games but about Worlds as well). I think James is only relevant as potential proof that the decision was made before the FS.

 

[overedge]

Only if it’s warranted.

Which I don’t think has been proven as yet. To the positive or negative.

So far it’s just conjecture, assumption and gossip.

Both Evelyn and her coach said they heard Vanessa say "Our spot is secure". No one has contradicted both of them saying (separately) that SC sent out the Olympic team announcement via Twitter, and that they never received any direct notification or any explanation of why the choice was made. Neither of those are conjecture, assumption, or gossip.

 

[barbk]

Both Evelyn and her coach said they heard Vanessa say "Our spot is secure". No one has contradicted both of them saying (separately) that SC sent out the Olympic team announcement via Twitter, and that they never received any direct notification or any explanation of why the choice was made. Neither of those are conjecture, assumption, or gossip.

Not nice to say that, but it would seem to have been accurate based on the criteria.

 

[pointbleu]

Because taking a more ethical approach is such a giant waste of time?! I skate under Skate Canada (I’m forced to be a member if I want to take figure skating lessons here) and I’ve had an esteemed coach (in Kingston and apparently in other parts of Ontario) make racist remarks to me about another skater, openly and unapologetically. When I tried discussing it with her, she became defensive and dismissive, and the skater I went to for advice assured me that this coach had “a good heart“, etc. (and this coach is often described in glowing terms by other members of the local skating community). This was prior to Asher calling SC out on their hypocrisy so there was absolutely nothing communicated to skaters on steps to take if an issue like this were to arise.

A genuine commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion means creating safe spaces for skaters from marginalized backgrounds (addressing structural barriers, clarifying policy and procedures and encouraging skaters and SC community members to report, providing appropriate supports when they do, ensuring there is accountability) and I still see little being done in this regard. The survey I received through email is honestly the only thing I’ve seen SC do in terms of EDI work, and it’s really not much. The changing of the names of those particular steps was long overdue, and was hardly burdensome to SC. I am honestly curious as to why you think this has been (too) much of a focus for SC?

I have nothing about making sure the sport is diversify and equal to anyone wanting to skate and achieve success. That is said, is that the major issue Skate Canada had to deal with during this pandemic? Of course it should be addressed but at the same time, what could have been done more regarding development? What does it take for our skaters to get to a higher level? I just feel they got lost in this pandemic and no solution or direction had been put on the table. I recall David Wilson article last year and I stand by what he said.
Truly it is not has been made that is bugging me but what has not been made.

 

[VGThuy]

I don’t think selecting J/R based on criteria is an issue for most. At most, the issue is with the criteria itself but not arguing it wasn’t used accurately. The issue now is whether they were told by an official from Skate Canada in some official capacity that they were pretty much named on the team before Skate Canada met to select the team officially.

 

[litenkyckling]

Very interesting and entertaining discussion on the The Skating Lesson
, This and That yesterday. Lots of discussion on the drama in Canadian figure Skating. They had some additional info regarding my the locker room incident. They said thy have spoken to a witness in the locker and it was not their recollection of what happened …agreeable they find this story ridiculous!!!

A new point of interest that has not been discussed that was brought up was the impact this will have on Evelyn and trennts relationship with Skate Canada. They basically said she has shot herself in the foot. You do not get to talk badly about fellow skaters and Skate Canada in the press and then expect them to do you any favours. It is just not how it works. E/M obviously have lots of people in their corner… she should have let them leak the story… if it was true,and let their supporters fight the battle. That would have been a much smarter move!! Maybe Trennt is the smarter one here and knows to keep his mouth shut instead of going down the rabbit hole.

They also went through all the selection criteria, the listed all the international scores, which makes the decision even more clear and obvious. There is no way Skate Canada could send W/M based on any of the criteria. You simply can not perform like that during an Olympic year!!

Anyways it is a good listen with some good points!!

ah yes, TSL, known for being a beacon of honesty, integrity and impartiality.

 

[chantilly]

Both Evelyn and her coach said they heard Vanessa say "Our spot is secure". No one has contradicted both of them saying (separately) that SC sent out the Olympic team announcement via Twitter, and that they never received any direct notification or any explanation of why the choice was made. Neither of those are conjecture, assumption, or gossip.

True.

But everyone IS assuming that SC took them aside or communicated with them secretly that they were a lock for the team or their spot on the team, to use Vanessa’s quoted words, “secure”. When it’s entirely possible it was Vanessa’s self assurance or assumption based on the same guidelines posted on the SC website.

We don’t know the context.

I’m guessing there was some secret or behind the scenes communication, and I know for some that stinks or is unfair.

But I still think if you look at the guidelines and measure the three teams performance of the season, W and M and KMT/MM were kidding themselves if they didn’t think that one of them wasn’t going to make the team.

Crappy situation for sure and maybe it’s not cool that they may have been told in secret, but it honestly wouldn’t have changed a thing anyway.

And I’m pretty sure this isn’t the first time teams or athletes have been informed unofficially.

 

[litenkyckling]

Crappy situation for sure and maybe it’s not cool that they may have been told in secret, but it honestly wouldn’t have changed a thing anyway.

Well lets hope the change incurred from this is that this kind of treatment from Skate Canada and this level of behaviour that is unsportsman-like will never be allowed to happen again.

A systems change is clearly in need at Skate Canada - they probably wouldn't have even found themselves in this mess had they invested more in up and coming talent in pairs.

 

[overedge]

True.

But everyone IS assuming that SC took them aside or communicated with them secretly that they were a lock for the team or their spot on the team, to use Vanessa’s quoted words, “secure”. When it’s entirely possible it was Vanessa’s self assurance or assumption based on the same guidelines posted on the SC website.

I find it really hard to believe that she would have said that just because she was confident.

J/R didn't have great results during the season, and after the SP they were fourth. With only two Olympic spots, a team in that position who really wanted to go to the Olympics IMO would have skated the LP to improve their chances of being chosen. (Yes, I know J/R were recovering from COVID, but there were other competitors at SC who were also recovering and who competed.)

That Vanessa said something like that and then the team withdrew....that doesn't add up, if she was just spouting hot air with nothing to back it up.

 

[skatingguy]

I find it really hard to believe that she would have said that just because she was confident.

J/R didn't have great results during the season, and after the SP they were fourth. With only two Olympic spots, a team in that position who really wanted to go to the Olympics IMO would have skated the LP to improve their chances of being chosen. (Yes, I know J/R were recovering from *********, but there were other competitors at SC who were also recovering and who competed.)

That Vanessa said something like that and then the team withdrew....that doesn't add up, if she was just spouting hot air with nothing to back it up.

I disagree. The Olympic team was set before the event based on the Fall events, and Walsh/Michaud, as well as they skated, were not in the running for the team unless one of the top two is forced out with an injury.

 

[overedge]

I disagree. The Olympic team was set before the event based on the Fall events, and Walsh/Michaud, as well as they skated, were not in the running for the team unless one of the top two is forced out with an injury.

After the SP, W/M were in 2nd and J/R were 4th. W/M finished 2nd overall. That put W/M in the running for the team, because National results are part of the selection criteria.

 

[karmena]

.... imho few people are boiling of/in their own passions/inner problems under the disguise of W/ M

 

[sap5]

nvm

 

[skatingguy]

After the SP, W/M were in 2nd and J/R were 4th. W/M finished 2nd overall. That put W/M in the running for the team, because National results are part of the selection criteria.

Too little too late. Walsh/Michaud had dug too big a whole in the Fall to make it up by beating James/Radford at one competition.

 

[eurodance2001]

Is the Skate Canada CEO even in the country or they still living/hiding in Europe?

 

[skatingguy]

Is the Skate Canada CEO even in the country or they still living/hiding in Europe?

Skate Canada's website lists 'Director - Appointed' Leanna Caron as residing in Switzerland.

 

[chantilly]

Is the Skate Canada CEO even in the country or they still living/hiding in Europe?

 

[tony]

I'm not sure why the eye roll here. It was somewhat well-documented last season that following Nationals being canceled, there was very little to no communication with the top athletes, no virtual anything, no mentioning of Worlds, etc. SC basically gave up mid-season and was sitting around waiting for Worlds to be canceled. That kind of disorganization has to come first from the top.

 

[marbri]

Leanna Caron has another job and that job is likely the reason she currently lives in Switzerland.


eta... and she isn't the CEO of SC. That's another job.

 

[litenkyckling]

.... imho few people are boiling of/in their own passions/inner problems under the disguise of W/ M

and imho people are on here just to be nasty about one team because they can't handle criticism of their sibling in the other team on the internet yet again

 

[chantilly]

I'm not sure why the eye roll here. It was somewhat well-documented last season that following Nationals being canceled, there was very little to no communication with the top athletes, no virtual anything, no mentioning of Worlds, etc. SC basically gave up mid-season and was sitting around waiting for Worlds to be canceled. That kind of disorganization has to come first from the top.

I inserted an eye roll because your post seemed to indicate that the director’s location affects their job performance.

Mostly it was the “hiding “ comment that bugged.

What you have communicated above could have little to no bearing on where they live.

People crap a lot on SC, and they definitely have issues, but I also think people don’t appreciate that they don’t nearly have as much operating money as in the past.

And also having to negotiate things in a pandemic with a bunch of different restrictions from different provinces consistently changing.

I agree that SC has issues but I think the vitriol and hyper negativity is a bit unwarranted

 

[chantilly]

and imho people are on here just to be nasty about one team because they can't handle criticism of their sibling in the other team on the internet yet again

Who’s been nasty about W/M?

 

[overedge]

Too little too late. Walsh/Michaud had dug too big a whole in the Fall to make it up by beating James/Radford at one competition.

Nationals count into the selection criteria. That's a fact.

If you want to argue that J/R deserved the spot, fine, but it's not correct to imply that W/M were totally out of the running.

 

[tony]

I inserted an eye roll because your post seemed to indicate that the director’s location affects their job performance.

That wasn't my post, though.

People crap a lot on SC, and they definitely have issues, but I also think people don’t appreciate that they don’t nearly have as much operating money as in the past.

They don't have money- maybe? But they are still capable of communicating, right?

 

[skatingguy]

Nationals count into the selection criteria. That's a fact.

If you want to argue that J/R deserved the spot, fine, but it's not correct to imply that W/M were totally out of the running.

Why? Nationals results were part of the selection criteria, but just because they're part of the criteria doesn't mean they were going to change the result. Look at US Nationals. Ilia Malinin's skate, as good as it was, was not enough to change the result because the difference between him, and Jason was too large to be overcome in one competition, and the same is true for Walsh/Michaud.

 

[tony]

Why? Nationals results were part of the selection criteria, but just because they're part of the criteria doesn't mean they were going to change the result. Look at US Nationals. Ilia Malinin's skate, as good as it was, was not enough to change the result because the difference between him, and Jason was too large to be overcome in one competition, and the same is true for Walsh/Michaud.

The thing is, the criteria did make it an up in the air case between the two. One of the criteria was 2021 Worlds - that goes to W/M. Another was National Championship result - that went to W/M the minute J/R withdrew. Another was scores that would place a team into the top two fights at Olympics. James/Radford are 9th-highest currently out of Olympic-bound teams, so there's an argument there that they shouldn't really get that criteria in their favor at all even if they were super close.

J/R obviously had the scores from the season though, but that was far from the only thing considered in the decision. It shouldn't have been a closed-book case based on the very criteria SC put out.

I don't know anything past what I've already reported, but since it was so close between the two when picking out which team got each criteria, I don't find it hard at all to believe James was assured probably prior to the SP that even if they didn't skate, they would go to the Olympics-- and that's problematic. Because not skating, or not finishing the competition as it happened, gives W/M another criteria in their favor.

And as @SkateGuard put out a beautiful comparison chart just after I wrote this, everyone can very clearly see it was not a clear J/R case and if they were told so, that is a problem IMO.

 

[overedge]

@chantilly SC has less operating money than they did in the past because of its own bad strategic decisions. Like spending almost $2 million on a strategic plan that had almost no input from the general membership and that has almost no practical guidance. That was way before the pandemic.

I'm sure SC will blame any financial issues on the pandemic but the problems were there long beforehand.

And having limited financial resources is not a reason to not give skaters feedback to help them understand why decisions were made, and to help them improve.

 

[chantilly]

That wasn't my post, though.

They don't have money- maybe? But they are still capable of communicating, right?

Sorry my bad, but my point still stands to the original poster.

As regards to your point regarding communication I agree it wasn’t handled well, but I also think they were scrambling and trying to figure things out as things were rapidly and constantly changing.

I don’t know if SC directors/officials are paid but it sounds like they have professional lives outside the federation and were likely personally handling their own issue with the pandemic like everyone else.

I fully acknowledge there are issues but as I said I don’t think they deserve as much censure as they are getting

 

[SkateGuard]

I do enjoy a good chart, so here's a little breakdown of Skate Canada's six criteria for the Olympic team selection. Bear in mind the last one, "Other relevant criteria deemed appropriate for selection" could mean just about anything - results at Canadian Championships past, results with previous partners, who's got the best triple twist, who makes the best chocolate chip cookies, rock paper scissors, eenie meeny miny mo, etc.

Criteria	Moore-Towers/Marinaro	James/Radford	Walsh/Michaud
Medalist at the 2021 ISU World Figure Skating Championships	No	No	No
Placement and scores at the 2021 ISU World Figure Skating Championships	6th – 195.29 (63.45+131.84)	Not entered	12th – 176.24 (59.41+116.83)
Season best international score from the 2021-2022, ISU Grand Prix Series, Senior International events and /or ISU Grand Prix Final	SP PB (int): 66.43 (Skate Canada) FS PB (int): 122.77 (Finlandia Trophy) Overall PB (int): 184.37 (Finlandia Trophy)	SP PB (int): 71.84 (Internationaux de France) FS PB (int): 130.85 (Golden Spin of Zagreb) Overall PB (int): 196.34 (Internationaux de France)	SP PB (int): 59.31 (Golden Spin of Zagreb) FS PB: 111.01 (NHK Trophy) Overall PB: 168.87 (Golden Spin of Zagreb)
Demonstration of short and free skate international scores from the current season (2021/2022) for a potential placement in the top two flights at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games	Potentially yes – overall PB (int) from 2021-2022 would have had them 11th at 2021 Worlds	Potentially yes - overall PB (int) from 2021-2022 would have had them 6th at 2021 Worlds	Potentially yes - overall PB (int) from 2021-2022 would have had them 13th at 2021 Worlds
Placement and scores at the 2022 Canadian Tire National Figure Skating Championships	1st – 212.54 (73.02 + 139.52)	Withdrew (4th - 63.33 in SP)	2nd – 186.52 (66.88 + 119.64)
Other relevant criteria deemed appropriate for selection	6th in ISU World Ranking	22nd in ISU World Ranking	20th in ISU World Ranking

 

[Rafter]

Is the Skate Canada CEO even in the country or they still living/hiding in Europe?

The Skate Canada CEO is Debra something. She resides in Canada. This is a hired position.

The SC President is or was Leanna Caron and this is an elected position.