Skate Canada 2022 Olympics selection criteria

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overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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Why? Nationals results were part of the selection criteria, but just because they're part of the criteria doesn't mean they were going to change the result. Look at US Nationals. Ilia Malinin's skate, as good as it was, was not enough to change the result because the difference between him, and Jason was too large to be overcome in one competition, and the same is true for Walsh/Michaud.

US selection criteria have nothing to do with Canadian selection criteria. W/M were being sent to international events during the season and they placed second at Nationals. I honestly don't understand how that can be interpreted as them being out of consideration for Worlds or Olympics.
 
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crazy2skate

Member
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Very interesting. I will have to go watch TSL to hear this.

Evelyn is going against her mother’s advice. On Instagram under one of EW’s nationals posts, her mother wrote “Always go high”. I assumed it was a Michelle Obama reference….”when they go low we go high”. Evelyn going to the media is not going high.
I wonder if their coach Alison Purkiss was trying to help the situation Evelyn got herself into when she spoke to the press.Purkiss was quoted saying that maybe what Vanessa said may have been taken out of context…. Plot thickens…if only those walls could talk
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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But since Vanessa said out loud that they were promised a spot before spots should have been determined
That's not what she said though. Our spot is "secure" doesn't mean it is "promised."

I do think, given that J/R outscored MT/M throughout the season and beat them in their one head-to-head matchup, that their spot was secured. Maybe James thought the same.

Um, they're partners. Whatever she says is going to affect his career, and vice versa. Unless he's planning to switch to singles.
Or get a new partner.

I do enjoy a good chart, so here's a little breakdown of Skate Canada's six criteria for the Olympic team selection.
re:
Demonstration of short and free skate international scores from the current season (2021/2022) for a potential placement in the top two flights at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games

Given that the top two flights only have 8 teams in them, IMO only J/R have demonstrated this. The others maybe had an outside chance, but it seems unlikely at this point.
 

Judy

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I wonder if their coach Alison Purkiss was trying to help the situation Evelyn got herself into when she spoke to the press.Purkiss was quoted saying that maybe what Vanessa said may have been taken out of context…. Plot thickens…if only those walls could talk
Likely an outburst. I don’t have any favourites here either.
 
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sap5

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What proof though? A witness saying it didn’t happen? That one witness would weigh against other witnesses who also said they were there, including Evelyn Walsh herself who was the one who quoted James.
Proof that SC violated the rules for selection. That’s the issue here. What bothers me is there isn’t any solid proof of that. All we have is “our spot is secure” with no further context. Did Vanessa say that because someone at SC told her that? Or was that her own assumption?

What surprises me is that it looks like a number of prominent skaters heard this statement through the grapevine, and just jumped to the conclusion that there was a violation. Even though so many of them, like Tessa Virtue, have repeatedly talked about how difficult and damaging it is to deal with rumors and misinterpretations of things that were seen and heard. Violation of the rules is something serious, and and I hope everyone’s conclusions are based on more than this statement by Vanessa. And if there is more, the public has a right to know what that is.
 

tony

But it just doesn't fcuking glide
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re:
Demonstration of short and free skate international scores from the current season (2021/2022) for a potential placement in the top two flights at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games

Given that the top two flights only have 8 teams in them, IMO only J/R have demonstrated this. The others maybe had an outside chance, but it seems unlikely at this point.
As I posted- if you are looking at current-season stats, they are 9th-highest and would not have demonstrated they would fit into those two flights, even if it's off by one spot. So that criteria is still up for interpretation.

Either way, as shown in that chart, W/M had it over J/R in some criteria even if it wasn't the fault of J/R. But that is on Skate Canada, and that is on them to have to decide once the final results of the event were established.

It's not my business to throw specifics out there, but there was more to Vanessa's rant that indicates to me that she knew she didn't have to skate at Nationals for it to matter RE: the Olympics. I don't know what Dave Lease was told, but it definitely doesn't match what I heard.
 

chantilly

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Ultimately SC should just admit that international results may weigh more heavily than Nationals results.

I mean I think it should quite honestly.

But yeah moving forward they should adjust the wording of their criteria perhaps, to avoid this?
 

skatingguy

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Ultimately SC should just admit that international results may weigh more heavily than Nationals results.

I mean I think it should quite honestly.

But yeah moving forward they should adjust the wording of their criteria perhaps, to avoid this?
That seems pretty clear in the criteria already - nationals results are one criteria while several of the other criteria are about international events.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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As I posted- if you are looking at current-season stats, they are 9th-highest and would not have demonstrated they would fit into those two flights, even if it's off by one spot. So that criteria is still up for interpretation.
True - however their best short program score, keeping in mind how many per country will be at the olympics - would put them in the second to last flight in the free. So from that perspective one could say they did meet that criteria. But as you say it's up for interpretation.
 

victorskid

Happily ignoring many pontificators & know-it-alls
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Is the Skate Canada CEO even in the country or they still living/hiding in Europe?
If you are referring to Leanna Caron, as someone else pointed out she is one of the Directors on the Board of Skate Canada. She is no longer the President. She was never the CEO to the best of my recollection.
The current Board of Directors: https://skatecanada.ca/portfolio-item/board-of-directors/
The current Executive & Management: https://skatecanada.ca/portfolio-item/board-of-directors/#executive--management
 

Vase

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Catching up on all this, can’t help but think that MAYBE Walsh is possibly retiring after this season. She seems like an intelligent girl and not known for drama, but given up 4yrs (which pretty much always considered team2) in the J/R pair up, she was obviously upset.
Michaud is staying awfully quiet which says to me ‘I’m not interested, let’s move forward’
As a team they’ve never really stated the length of partnership, and before this drama they didn’t have a lot of fan support.
 

MacMadame

Doing all the things
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they are 9th-highest
J/R?

But as you say it's up for interpretation.
Because it says "potential placement" Someone could argue that a team in 11th place has the potential to move up to 8th and get in the penultimate group, I guess. It seems like a long shot to me. And 13th has no shot. But even if J/R is only 9th, not 6th, moving up one spot is not a long shot like it would be for 11th. I would give it to J/R here and not the other two teams.
 

litenkyckling

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Catching up on all this, can’t help but think that MAYBE Walsh is possibly retiring after this season. She seems like an intelligent girl and not known for drama, but given up 4yrs (which pretty much always considered team2) in the J/R pair up, she was obviously upset.
Michaud is staying awfully quiet which says to me ‘I’m not interested, let’s move forward’
As a team they’ve never really stated the length of partnership, and before this drama they didn’t have a lot of fan support.
I don't think that's true to be honest - they've always had a pretty solid base of support. They have a lovely chemistry together and really nice skating skills too. I've personally really enjoyed them since their appearance at SkAm in 2018 - and I think a lot of people are the same.
 

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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Michaud is staying awfully quiet which says to me ‘I’m not interested, let’s move forward’

I would be seriously surprised if both Walsh and their coach would say these things in public, if he wasn't OK with that too.
 
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puglover

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One of the things I personally hated when my kids skated was how you never could question a result or ask "why" of anyone in the know. Just shut up - pay your money - and live with the results. My husband, who has a science background, could not believe the discrepancy in marks and so we kept him away from competitions. I applaud anyone who speaks up - about discrimination, abuse, results, whatever, if they perceive they have been wronged. I do not believe they should be punished for that. SC has used 4 C's as a skate off in the past and it is too bad they did not have that option this year
 

fsfann

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I think something is being forgotten here.

I think it is 100% accurate to say that they were assured the Olympic position prior to them dropping out of the competition. It's the only thing that makes sense. They could have skated in the FP like the others who had ********* at the same time. yes, it may have been a struggle but they still could have tried...especially if they knew Olys were on the line.

My biggest question is if they (J/R) decided to pull out as a strategic move or if someone at SC suggested they do that so as to avoid the awkward position of them possibly finishing 3rd or 4th (or worse) overall...which would then bolster the argument for W/M to go to the Olympics.

In this scenario, it is: "J/R had a better international season. W/M had a great Nationals....but we'll never know what would have happened if J/R had skated".

The other scenario would have been: "J/R had a better international season. W/M beat J/R at Nationals....how do we decide?"

Finally, in hindsight, maybe W/M should have pulled out of their international events since they had some health concerns early on in the season....then their BOW would include last year's Nats/Worlds etc as a higher consideration..

Anyway, lots of food for thought, but I think it's safe to say that we all know that J/R were very confident that their spot on the Olympic team was secured when they decided to pull out of the competition. If it wasn't, there was no way in hell that they wouldn't have at least tried to skate...and had it gone poorly, they could have blamed ********* after the fact... It was "safer" to just pull out...
 

Bournekraatzfan

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I have nothing about making sure the sport is diversify and equal to anyone wanting to skate and achieve success. That is said, is that the major issue Skate Canada had to deal with during this *********? Of course it should be addressed but at the same time, what could have been done more regarding development? What does it take for our skaters to get to a higher level? I just feel they got lost in this ********* and no solution or direction had been put on the table. I recall David Wilson article last year and I stand by what he said.
Truly it is not has been made that is bugging me but what has not been made.
That’s the thing, I really don’t think SC’s organizational issues are due to their energies being directed towards EDI—their mandate is rather recent and I have yet to see anything to suggest this was their “major issue”; and besides, I don’t believe it’s a zero sum game. Skater development should benefit from greater inclusivity/increased accessibility but even if it didn’t, wouldn‘t it be worth pursuing? There is an urgent need for this work, and the p******* should underscore its importance given how Black, Indigenous and racialized people were disproportionately impacted in Canada. A competent governing body should be able to attend to all of these things and understand+acknowledge their interdependence. overedge provided some insight into why things might not be functioning well at SC but I can’t find the post atm
 

Excidra

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What is unfortunate in all of this is that Vanessa has been saddled with the burden of proof while her white counterpart was given the benefit of doubt.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vanessa feels isolated and excluded from the Canadian skating community after all this. And those Canadian skaters, in particular Megan and Tessa, should be ashamed of themselves for causing the drama and allowing it to go into tailspin.

I admired both woman prior to this. Not anymore.
 

angi

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What is unfortunate in all of this is that Vanessa has been saddled with the burden of proof while her white counterpart was given the benefit of doubt.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vanessa feels isolated and excluded from the Canadian skating community after all this. And those Canadian skaters, in particular Megan and Tessa, should be ashamed of themselves for causing the drama and allowing it to go into tailspin.

I admired both woman prior to this. Not anymore.
Oh please, what burden of proof is Vanessa saddled with? This is the first season of her ever skating for Skate Canada and she's been getting better treatment than skaters who've been representing Skate Canada for years, she's enjoying many privileges that are not offered to others in this case and she's getting them without actually having to work for them for the most part. And while it's not directly connected to the selection process, Vanessa made her choices in the Cipres situation and for those, she deserves every bit of backlash she has been getting - let's be clear, it's her decisions and comments that are criticized here, not his. And unless Radford is a POC and I totally missed it, he feels just as isolated from his teammates and that isolation comes from what his peers perceive as unfair decisions making by Skate Canada, nothing more.
And if you stop admiring a skater for something as liking a post that questions the selection of Skate Canada - you will soon be left with no skaters to admire.
 

marbri

Hey, Kool-Aid!
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14,377
What is unfortunate in all of this is that Vanessa has been saddled with the burden of proof while her white counterpart was given the benefit of doubt.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vanessa feels isolated and excluded from the Canadian skating community after all this. And those Canadian skaters, in particular Megan and Tessa, should be ashamed of themselves for causing the drama and allowing it to go into tailspin.

I admired both woman prior to this. Not anymore.
:lol: So Tessa liking a post in support of a fellow girl from London is worse than Weaver making multiple comments on the situation. Okay ;)
 

skategal

Bunny mama
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Vanessa doesn’t have to prove anything. :confused:

She’s on the Olympic team and Skate Canada has already stated in the media more than once that J/R met the criteria to be selected.

If anyone has to prove anything it’s Skate Canada (to prove their process is fair) but we know that won’t happen.
 

pointbleu

Active Member
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That’s the thing, I really don’t think SC’s organizational issues are due to their energies being directed towards EDI—their mandate is rather recent and I have yet to see anything to suggest this was their “major issue”; and besides, I don’t believe it’s a zero sum game. Skater development should benefit from greater inclusivity/increased accessibility but even if it didn’t, wouldn‘t it be worth pursuing? There is an urgent need for this work, and the p******* should underscore its importance given how Black, Indigenous and racialized people were disproportionately impacted in Canada. A competent governing body should be able to attend to all of these things and understand+acknowledge their interdependence. overedge provided some insight into why things might not be functioning well at SC but I can’t find the post atm
I think we all agree there seems to have an organizational problem within SC and it does show. It used to be a much sharper organization. I don’t know where and why it drifted but we can feel it. (I know less funding sure doesn’t help but having a clear vision would help).
As for EDI, it would be rather silly to be against it. I know where the issue came first and they had to address it publicly. Anyhow, the country clubs across Canada are not facing the same issues than the urban clubs. How do we help these little clubs raising competent and great skaters? I dream of a system where we would help any talented skater reaching their full potential. I guess I am a dreamer… 😌😉🙃
 

Rafter

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Should be completely useless. Talks a lot but clearly doesn't understand the sport or would have done something about lack of development.

Sounded to me like she and Ted Barton were speaking to the fans re: the Oly team selection and also to Walsh, Michaud and Purkiss for why they weren’t selected.
 

chantilly

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Good point

I think I was trying to concede a little to the other perspectives

Basically I feel like:

1)SC made the right decision and based on their stated criteria it should have been clear Nationals was only one factor.

2) W/M should have known their chances were slim at best, especially if they didn't win and/or put up big numbers.

3) There's way too many assumptions being made by people in several areas.

4) SC has many issues, definitely their communication needs to be fixed.

5) Vanessa is the one being targeted and put under the spot light because SHE is the one who made the comment heard by several people, not because of the colour of her skin. SC's problems with racism and POC are not the issue in this case.

6) Emotions are running high and affecting people's opinions and judgements.

7) SC should have addressed the situation a little earlier then they did in terms of explaining their criteria.

8) It's very unfortunate that skaters and alumni can't address what and where there may be legitimate concerns with SC without there seeming to be repercussions etc. However, instagrams etc, could have been taken down because they heard the whole story which wasn't as nefarious as they originally thought.
 
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