Skate Canada 2022 Olympics selection criteria

[VGThuy]

And in the events with the words "Olympic Trials", sometimes athletes were nonetheless selected to the Olympic team despite their placement at the Olympic Trials. Didn't that happen in US Women's Gymnastics in 2016?

Yeah, and the excuse was that the team format was different than a straight up all-around competition where you have to consider the use of specialists in a 5-3-3 team final format. In 2020/21 (Olympics pushed back a year) - they went straight up with AA rankings from trials and well...let's just say people said it wasn't the smartest line-up - but USAG thought with Simone Biles they had leeway to not maximize every last tenth on every apparatus and we saw what happened there.

I think with team selections, the idea of fair play of using the latest competition to choose team members can run at odds with the idea of selecting who is actually the best team for international competition - especially when one of the top athletes who can medal or even win internationally has a truly bad day at that one deciding competition. Anyway, it seems every year since the team event changed to where the best team will be a mix of AAers and apparatus specialists, NBC has had to painstakingly explain why the team won't be chosen based on straight up competition rankings and that there are other competitions and results that will be considered in forming the team.

 

[Judy]

Has everyone got over their temper tantrums?

 

[skipaway]

No horse in this race either, but if SC “promised or decided“ to put J/R on the Olympic team prior to the competition, then why tell J/R? SC just should have kept it to themselves and let the competition proceed. Then announce your choices after the fact. Controversy and speculation may have been lessened.

 

[pointbleu]

Yes and no - on one hand they posted the criteria listed at the beginning of this post and on the other a direct quote from their event page on their website:


"EVENT:

What are  the  2022  Canadian Tire National Skating Championships? 

Approximately 250 skaters in the women’s, men’s, pair and ice dance disciplines will compete at the senior, junior and novice levels at the Canadian Tire National Skating Championships. Athletes will vie for spots on the Skate Canada National Team and the teams that will compete at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games, the 2022 ISU World Figure Skating Championships, the 2022 ISU Four Continents Figure Skating Championships, and the 2022 ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships."

Come on rink mom, if you truly are a rink mom, you would know about the selection criteria. You sure sound like a casual viewer watching skating once every four years or you are so stuck into your emotions that your rational mind doesn’t work anymore.

Breathe in, breathe out

 

[rink_mom]

Come on rink mom, if you truly are a rink mom, you would know about the selection criteria. You sure sound like a casual viewer watching skating once every four years or you are so stuck into your emotions that your rational mind doesn’t work anymore.

Breathe in, breathe out

I am clearly pointing that Skate Canada is putting out conflicting information. I know about the criteria but I also feel that SC likes to muddy the info to make it as confusing as possible so they can do what the hell they want.

No - I am not a casual viewer - my bank balance says otherwise - on the topic of the criteria that I am more than familiar with the skaters and the families "lovingly" refer to the most important part of the SC criteria as the "FU clause"

 

[Lemonade20]

SC has shown they're not as invested in the upcoming skaters. They're so stuck in the past that they're not able to move forward. Scores aside, I find it perplexing they're putting their bets on J/R just based on their history (with other partners). If it was D/R, I'd be all in. Sorry, SC really sucks.

 

[MacMadame]

Duhamel is absolutely insufferable in my opinion.

She also has a bone to pick with the James/Radford pairing.

When a newly formed team like J/R starts winning against established pairs like MT/M and W/M right out of the gate, that's a cause for concern.

For those who don't keep track, J/R's best SP score is in the top 10 on the GP and MT/M's is not. J/R beat M-T/M at Skate Canada too. (I am too lazy to figure out if their LP is higher than MT/M are not.)

If Skate Canada has made the selection criteria clear from the start of the season, and J/R met those, I don't see why their selection is controversial.

Because it's always controversial when a fed doesn't go with the results of Nationals (plus medical byes) when they have a history of doing that and go with Nationals results 90% of the time.

I'm not saying it should be controversial. Just that is it.

i realize they were ill but their mistakes in the short seemed similar to the ones they made previously in their very short history together.

That's how it works though. When you are tired or stressed or nervous, you fall back on the same problems causing the same mistakes. It's like when a skater has no reliable 3X. If they got C0vid, they would most likely mess up the 3X if that is already a problematic element.

It's further disappointing Vanessa James could potentially be so classless if she made the comment with malicious intent.

Even without malicious intent, it was impolite/classless IMO. It seems weird too because the quotes in one of the articles are very gracious. So she does know how to be a good sport.

 

[Judy]

No horse in this race either, but if SC “promised or decided“ to put J/R on the Olympic team prior to the competition, then why tell J/R? SC just should have kept it to themselves and let the competition proceed. Then announce your choices after the fact. Controversy and speculation may have been lessened.

I think J/R were fully aware of the requirements for the Olympic team. I also think that they are very frustrated with how things are going though .. Virtue and Moir came back after 3 years but at least they were the same partners. J/R are a new team pairing up and they were right into an Olympic season. It likely wasn’t enough time though realistically.

 

[angi]

I think J/R were fully aware of the requirements for the Olympic team. I also think that they are very frustrated with how things are going though .. Virtue and Moir came back after 3 years but at least they were the same partners. J/R are a new team pairing up and they were right into an Olympic season. It likely wasn’t enough time though realistically.

V/M came back after two years, helped secure 3 dance spots for the Olympics at 2017 Worlds, and won gold in every competition they entered except one where they took silver leading up to the games.
J/R came back just for the Olympic season, medaled only at one competition (where they skated poorly), performed poorly for the most part with issues that were repeated at every competition (big mistakes on the twist, labored lifts, low levels for the spins, and death spirals) and were mostly held up by high PCS that were given to them not based on what they put on the ice (which was lacking speed, transitions, and ice coverage) but based on the results they had with previous partners.
For me, if J/R would have beaten W/M at nationals I would have had no issue with their selection, but they withdrew and still expected to be awarded the Olympic spot (because it's clear they knew they were getting it). Their performances leading up to nationals weren't steller at all, and while W/M did struggle as well, they put on two decent showings at nationals and seemed to be on an upward trajectory while J/R allegedly are in such bad shape that they performed poorly in the SP (still scored generously) and couldn't even compete the FS - so why should anyone think they can deliver strong performance in 3 weeks when they couldn't even handle the SP this weekend?

 

[litenkyckling]

The way that they have treated Evelyn and Trennt is rancid.

They have handled it so poorly. Regardless of what you think of the Olympic selection, having them find out via Twitter? Not even giving them Worlds, despite proving that they have pulled it together? Allowing them to feel like they have been strung along on false hope all season?

I'm really glad that people have got behind giving Evelyn and Trennt support because it must be an incredibly lonely feeling, believing that your fed have completely dumped you in favour of a team that came back for a glory trip to the Olympics with no prospects for a medal.

I hope they come back stronger next season, in spite of SC and not because of them. All fingers crossed for a successful 4CC.

 

[Rafter]

The way that they have treated Evelyn and Trennt is rancid.

They have handled it so poorly. Regardless of what you think of the Olympic selection, having them find out via Twitter? Not even giving them Worlds, despite proving that they have pulled it together? Allowing them to feel like they have been strung along on false hope all season?

I'm really glad that people have got behind giving Evelyn and Trennt support because it must be an incredibly lonely feeling, believing that your fed have completely dumped you in favour of a team that came back for a glory trip to the Olympics with no prospects for a medal.

I hope they come back stronger next season, in spite of SC and not because of them. All fingers crossed for a successful 4CC.

W/M pull it together every year at nationals. The problem is, this is the only event where they ever pull it together.

 

[angi]

W/M pull it together every year at nationals. The problem is, this is the only event where they ever pull it together.

That's not true, they did relatively well at Worlds last season and finished 12th out of 24. Reviewing the protocols the SP had one mistake (3T<) and only one mistake in the FS as well (step out of one of the throws).

 

[Judy]

V/M came back after two years, helped secure 3 dance spots for the Olympics at 2017 Worlds, and won gold in every competition they entered except one where they took silver leading up to the games.
J/R came back just for the Olympic season, medaled only at one competition (where they skated poorly), performed poorly for the most part with issues that were repeated at every competition (big mistakes on the twist, labored lifts, low levels for the spins, and death spirals) and were mostly held up by high PCS that were given to them not based on what they put on the ice (which was lacking speed, transitions, and ice coverage) but based on the results they had with previous partners.
For me, if J/R would have beaten W/M at nationals I would have had no issue with their selection, but they withdrew and still expected to be awarded the Olympic spot (because it's clear they knew they were getting it). Their performances leading up to nationals weren't steller at all, and while W/M did struggle as well, they put on two decent showings at nationals and seemed to be on an upward trajectory while J/R allegedly are in such bad shape that they performed poorly in the SP (still scored generously) and couldn't even compete the FS - so why should anyone think they can deliver strong performance in 3 weeks when they couldn't even handle the SP this weekend?

Yes correct it was two years for V/M.

 

[litenkyckling]

That's not true, they did relatively well at Worlds last season and finished 12th out of 24. Reviewing the protocols the SP had one mistake (3T<) and only one mistake in the FS as well (step out of one of the throws).

Exactly - and that was during the pandemic when they had a year of very interrupted training and this was their first competition in over a year. Arguably Canada and GB were some of the most disadvantaged teams ice time and competition wise at 2021 worlds.

 

[overedge]

Take this out of pairs for a minute and away from there being valid reasons to send either W/M or J/R to the Olympics. The issue is really whether Skate Canada promised an Olympic berth to a competitor in advance of the competition that is supposed to help choose the Olympic team. That is seriously concerning if it is true.

 

[angi]

Take this out of pairs for a minute and away from there being valid reasons to send either W/M or J/R to the Olympics. The issue is really whether Skate Canada promised an Olympic berth to a competitor in advance of the competition that is supposed to help choose the Olympic team. That is seriously concerning if it is true.

I completely agree, and I think it's very telling that so many of Skate Canada's skaters, both from the past and the present, are taking such a strong and public stand on the issue (some like Kaitlyn Weaver were and maybe still are very close to Radford in the past). And with both Weaver and Duhamel strongly hinting that we don't have the full picture, I think it's a safe assumption that what went down with the selection process was problematic, to say the least.
ETA: And it's even more baffling that Skate Canada didn't at least give Worlds to W/M, J/R and MT/M are not going to place in a way that will secure 3 spots, so why should J/R get the Olympics and Worlds? What kind of message is that sending?

 

[Vase]

Take this out of pairs for a minute and away from there being valid reasons to send either W/M or J/R to the Olympics. The issue is really whether Skate Canada promised an Olympic berth to a competitor in advance of the competition that is supposed to help choose the Olympic team. That is seriously concerning if it is true.

Would be concerning but I’m afraid this can’t/won’t be proven. As any case he said/she said, there’s two sides. I feel badly for W/M that are so upset to bring these stories to the newspapers. But lots of heartbreak in competitive sport, hold your head up and benefit from these hard times. I am sure we could interview every senior athlete and they’d be able to share a time that their dreams were crushed or felt deflated from a peer. The kiss and cry has shown heartbreak more then once.

 

[skatingguy]

ETA: And it's even more baffling that Skate Canada didn't at least give Worlds to W/M, J/R and MT/M are not going to place in a way that will secure 3 spots, so why should J/R get the Olympics and Worlds? What kind of message is that sending?

I would be very surprised it Moore-Towers/Marinaro attend the World Championships, and I wouldn't be surprised if they've already told Walsh/Michaud that as well.

 

[Karen-W]

I would be very surprised it Moore-Towers/Marinaro attend the World Championships, and I wouldn't be surprised if they've already told Walsh/Michaud that as well.

I'd be even more surprised if J/R attend Worlds. We all know this partnership has been about one thing and one thing only - Beijing.

 

[overedge]

Would be concerning but I’m afraid this can’t/won’t be proven.

How do you know that?

As any case he said/she said, there’s two sides. I feel badly for W/M that are so upset to bring these stories to the newspapers. But lots of heartbreak in competitive sport, hold your head up and benefit from these hard times. I am sure we could interview every senior athlete and they’d be able to share a time that their dreams were crushed or felt deflated from a peer. The kiss and cry has shown heartbreak more then once.

There's a really big difference between being disappointed with your own performance and possibly not having any chance at all, no matter how you performed, because the outcome was determined in advance.

 

[chantilly]

Not giving Walsh and Michaud worlds I agree is kinda crummy

But you have to remember that worlds often determines rankings and placements for the following season.

J/R have indicated a desire to skate more than just the Olympics season.

Although I doubt they will continue if they fail miserably which I suspect may happen.

But who knows

As I said before I’m unaware how athletes are informed of their placement on the world teams.

If it is always announced publicly then their is absolutely nothing wrong that’s transpired

I am guessing that SC told J/ R that their international success pretty much secured their spot, likely before Nationals

Perhaps a bit shady, but considering that their criteria was already posted and J/R were compromised by the crud, and couldn’t safely compete, it’s honestly not that shady.

Frankly all three teams knew going in that J/R were likely going period.

If they didn’t that’s on them.

I bet if W/M won they’d be going and KMT/MM would be the ones crying.

Everyone is complaining about “reputation bias” being a factor to send this team when we all know that it’s actually a thing that has to be considered when making your choices, fair or not on the world stage of judging figure skating

 

[Karen-W]

Perhaps a bit shady, but considering that their criteria was already posted and J/R were compromised by the crud, and couldn’t safely compete, it’s honestly not that shady.

Actually, it is A LOT SHADY if the Selection Doc states that the decision will NOT be made until Jan 9th. Who told them they were fine on the 7th? Or earlier? That is a big, huge, stinking red flag of the country of Shady-stan.

 

[pointbleu]

No horse in this race either, but if SC “promised or decided“ to put J/R on the Olympic team prior to the competition, then why tell J/R? SC just should have kept it to themselves and let the competition proceed. Then announce your choices after the fact. Controversy and speculation may have been lessened.

Maybe something like

I am clearly pointing that Skate Canada is putting out conflicting information. I know about the criteria but I also feel that SC likes to muddy the info to make it as confusing as possible so they can do what the hell they want.

No - I am not a casual viewer - my bank balance says otherwise - on the topic of the criteria that I am more than familiar with the skaters and the families "lovingly" refer to the most important part of the SC criteria as the "FU clause"

I have my own ranting about Skate Canada doing poorly at identifying talents, educating the coaches about off-ice training while they are focussing more on changing step names and minorities inclusion / diversity in skating. It looks like a ship without a captain.

That is said, back into our topic, you are posting an advertisement taken on their web site. Every serious competitor and coach in the country knew what the real criteria were. They were not hidden. Got them by email, could see them in the member section of the website.

 

[thvu]

You don’t need to explicitly “say” something to someone for the message to get across. I can’t say I’ve never had to communicate things this way…

Anyone paying attention knew J&R have been the highest scoring Canadian team in the fall. That W&M have been performing terribly, and that even if clean, wouldn’t break the 120s. J&R for the Oly Team was a forgone conclusion.

A member of the selection committee simply could have said “any country would be making a mistake to leave their highest scoring team home” without talking to any other members. Or they could have even spoken already about where the teams are now, and an individual member could come away with the conclusion that J&R are the top team, without actually making a decision.

I’m not saying this is what I think went down. I’m just saying we can’t know for sure that Skate Canada made this decision before the date and explicitly communicated it to J&R. Though, personally, I think of course they knew J&R were going to the Olympics, and when the fed found out they had crud, they heavily implied to them that they didn’t need to go to nationals to be named to the Oly Team.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

really think calling Vanessa’s comment in the locker room “bullying” is a stretch.

Oh dear, I missed all of this… Can you direct me to where this was being discussed.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

SC has shown they're not as invested in the upcoming skaters. They're so stuck in the past that they're not able to move forward.

Did you mean the USFSA in this comment lol

 

[barbarafan]

I think J/R were fully aware of the requirements for the Olympic team. I also think that they are very frustrated with how things are going though .. Virtue and Moir came back after 3 years but at least they were the same partners. J/R are a new team pairing up and they were right into an Olympic season. It likely wasn’t enough time though realistically.

Virtue and Moir did not retire and always said it was a break and they may return. Even then there was a bit of dirt coming from a certain coach when they announced their return.

 

[Vase]

How do you know that?



There's a really big difference between being disappointed with your own performance and possibly not having any chance at all, no matter how you performed, because the outcome was determined in advance.

I don’t have any confirmation, just how I think it goes. Unless there is confirmation by Skate Canada admitting it or a recording. I would assume the people in the dressing room that could’ve heard was the other ladies in the flight. With the current strict rules going on I’m sure the dressing rooms were not open to random people

And yes a difference in a way that this is the Olympics, an athletes biggest goal. But the kiss and cry has shown teams divided or scoring favouritism to crush the hopes of athletes.

And could possibly have been J/R coach to say, ‘you’ll be ok’ So many ways this could’ve played out, I just don’t seeing anyone owning up.

But it was pretty bold move of Walsh to announce to the papers that Skate Canada possibly had a hand in this situation. They are where her funding comes from, and it’s amazing Michaud hasn’t spoke up.

 

[SkateGuard]

I’m also unaware of how Skate Canada informed the team members. I always assumed it was a public announcement and not a private announcement. So I don’t know if Walsh should have expected a private meeting or call

A little not that distant history...

Years ago, when one Canadian Champion was told they weren't being sent to Worlds, they received a private letter outlining the decision.

Back when this happened, one of the other medallists told reporters that they'd heard the skater who was ultimately named to the team had been chosen by 'the powers that be' the summer before the Canadian Championships.

 

[Judy]

A little not that distant history...

Years ago, when one Canadian Champion was told they weren't being sent to Worlds, they received a private letter outlining the decision.

Back when this happened, one of the other medallists told reporters that they'd heard the skater who was ultimately named to the team had been chosen by 'the powers that be' the summer before the Canadian Championships.

Who was that? I need a refresher.