Simonenko's interview with Tutberidze `Projecting the upbringing on the sport results discipline'

[altai_rose]

I just read so many Russian coaches complain that their skaters lack motivation because things like ice time are just given to them. But they still want to promote a system where the skaters do nothing for themselves and are just pushed pushed and pushed externally. I doesn't really add up.

But are they really promoting that?
From Tutberidze's recent Icenetwork interview:

"I try to always let them decide what they want. My job as a coach is to follow them," she said. "I try to explain to them and make sure that they always have a choice. You can't just push them. If you did, it would work once or maybe twice, but it would never work more than that. You would lose the person herself; she would not be with you anymore."

Again, it's not black and white.

 

[IceAlisa]

Zakrajsek gets commendations from USFS despite similar lack of concern about the health of his skaters.

He is exactly who I was thinking of sending his skaters into competition injured, e.g., Rachael Flatt.

 

[Rina RUS]

We see it when the skater comes on the ice with the wrong mood, not concentrated, when, he should be shouted at for a bad practice. It's a daily work. Shouting and proving something all the time is very tiring.

Everybody judge Tutberidze...
so I should say, that Tutberidze doesn't say "should be shouted at" in this case. "Taking out one's brain" doesn't always mean shouting at him/her. Maybe explaining, that everything is bad, so that the person who has to listen to this speech feels very-very tired, unsufferably tired.
She also doesn't say, that shouting is a daily work. "Rugat'sya" isn't "shouting" too. "Rugat'sya" is saying unpleasant or bad words, sometimes just arguing. This word can be used even for the cases, when everybody are polite, actually.

 

[Rina RUS]

As for me, I think, that the coach should be careful to a child's health, of course. To say the truth, I didn't know the situation with Pitkeev and I still know nearly nothing, so I don't dare to have any opinion.
It was scaring to read, that Lipnitskaya was eating almost nothing...
I don't think, that calling boys with girls names is a good idea...

Yet it's OK for me, when Tutberidze says, that even those who seem to be mature are almost children. Even adult Russian skaters say about themselves, that they saw almost nothing besides the ice, when they were competing. Tutberidze could be more careful talking about every skater and the details, but... I also understand, that a coach can't do much, if this coach is alone, if a skater isn't involved in a normal work and nobody helps to involve him... I think she is right, that the education in our country is strange now.

 

[jenniferlyon]

As for me, I think, that the coach should be careful to a child's health, of course. To say the truth, I didn't know the situation with Pitkeev and I still know nearly nothing, so I don't dare to have any opinion.
It was scaring to read, that Lipnitskaya was eating almost nothing...
I don't think, that calling boys with girls names is a good idea...

Yet it's OK for me, when Tutberidze says, that even those who seem to be mature are almost children. Even adult Russian skaters say about themselves, that they saw almost nothing besides the ice, when they were competing. Tutberidze could be more careful talking about every skater and the details, but... I also understand, that a coach can't do much, if this coach is alone, if a skater isn't involved in a normal work and nobody helps to involve him... I think she is right, that the education in our country is strange now.

Where do today's elite young Russian skaters go to school? Are there still special sports schools for athletes like they had during the Soviet era?

 

[TAHbKA]

Where do today's elite young Russian skaters go to school? Are there still special sports schools for athletes like they had during the Soviet era?

There are, for example Sambo 70 where Tutberidze works. Some of the skaters mentioned private teachers coming to the rink to tutor them during their breaks.
If am not mistaken (I totally could be) the only skater who graduated a `normal' school was Yagudin.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

He is exactly who I was thinking of sending his skaters into competition injured, e.g., Rachael Flatt.

Joshua Farris and his reaction at the kiss n cry is comes to my mind.

Eteri sounds like the figure skating version of the Karolyis. If they "lost" some of their elite gymnasts along the way, they figured it was worth it as long as their system kept producing champions like Nadia and Mary Lou. (For more on this, I recommend a book from the 1990s called Little Girls In Pretty Boxes. It's available on Kindle and there are plenty of used copies floating around.)

Karolyis' also presided over a period when Dr. Nasser was freely abusing girls in the US gymnastics team. I believe their names were involved in the law suit.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/peopl...gendary-karolyi-coaches-turn-a-blind-eye/amp/

 

[lala]

@jenniferlyon I believe Plushenko graduated in normal school, he wrote in his biography: "After trainings I went to a far away school. I took the lessons and then I went to trainings again. The transport takes much energy" . And I'm sure in that time all Russian skaters graduated in normal school to learn from private teachers is a new possibility.

 

[lala]

Karolyis' also presided over a period when Dr. Nasser was freely abusing girls in the US gymnastics team. I believe their names were involved in the law suit.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/peopl...gendary-karolyi-coaches-turn-a-blind-eye/amp/

Has abusing been proven?

 

[Coco]

There is little doubt that Dr. Nassar abused many of the athletes he worked with.

But - someone, correct me if I'm wrong - there are not even allegations that the Karolyis knew what he or Marvin Sharp were up to.

They were named in the lawsuit because they are alleged to have created the atmosphere that allowed someone like Nassar to scare so many of his victims into silence.

The cynic in me thinks they were named because they are extremely wealthy and because they have had past accusations of abuse leveled at them, primarily by gymnasts they coached in Romania and by Dominique Moceanu. While the whole thing is an awful mess, I don't see Martha Karolyi ever telling gymnasts, I will take the side of your abuser and punish you for making an allegation. I'm sure a lot of abuse victims believed that, though. But I would blame that on Nassar.

@Dobre they took in Boguinskaya, not Butyrskaya

 

[Meoima]

Sure does to me. Although I've heard a Mariinsky principal dancer say that things are now easier on the students in many respects, the severity of the teachers, the living conditions, etc. compared to when that dancer was going through the training. Vaganova was the school in question.

Those who want more info on this, watch the documentary about the ballet school in Perm, called A Beautiful Tragedy. The film focuses on Oksana Skorik training there. I have a feeling that film had everything do with her being accepted and then rapidly promoted at Mariinsky. I have given up on her as a dancer.

Skorik has lovely poses and style but her technique... oh well...

 

[VGThuy]

Has abusing been proven?

A lot of former gymnasts came out to share stories of abuse by Dr. Nassar and file their own complaints after the initial complaints were filed. He's also charged with possession of child pornography after authorities searched his home and computer.

 

[lala]

A lot of former gymnast came out to share stories of abuse by Dr. Nassar and file their own complaints once the initial complaints were filed. He's also charged with possession of child pornography after authorities searched his home and computer.

Outrageous!

 

[IceAlisa]

Skorik has lovely poses and style but her technique... oh well...

Her lack of musicality is what strikes me as the fatal flaw. Technique can be corrected.

 

[Darkverse]

Right, they have to show the results to be fully funded, aka to have a nice flat given, have enough money to spend their vacations in Dominican Republic and do shopping in Paris. Ice, if I understand the system correctly, belongs to the club. I.e. if there is a club that has Medvedeva/Tsurskaya/Zagitova etc - they would have enough ice time for the whole club. When the club stars are Menshov/Leonova they might be asked to skate a bit longer to have at least someone who brings the funding...

The salary itself is not enough to do this, especially now. Those who can afford it must earn money in other ways as well, like shows. And none of it is applicable to kids anyway.

 

[Meoima]

Her lack of musicality is what strikes me as the fatal flaw. Technique can be corrected.

She hasn't corrected her technique...

 

[jenniferlyon]

Has abusing been proven?

The lawsuit against the Karolyis is still ongoing.

 

[Rina RUS]

If am not mistaken (I totally could be) the only skater who graduated a `normal' school was Yagudin.

The only one??.. he doesn't like to be alone. It seems Sikharulidze (at least) graduated from an ordinary school, with a silver medal.

And I'm sure in that time all Russian skaters graduated in normal school to learn from private teachers is a new possibility.

"normal schools" are compared not to private teachers here, they are compared to the schools for athletes (like "Sambo 70"). Ordinary schools don't have such names. Lesgaft University is one more place for athletes, and after the school Yagudin went to Lesgaft. "For athletes" means, that the teachers know, that the sport is more important than education for their students. It's OK to go to a competition instead of visiting school, maybe the teachers are not very strict... something like that.

Yet I didn't speak about schools... Maybe I just remember, that Marinin had no time to find a girlfriend, Totmianina says, that she knew what is a victory in sport, but she didn't know how to win in ordinary life...

 

[ilovepaydays]

Zakrajsek gets commendations from USFS despite similar lack of concern about the health of his skaters.

He is exactly who I was thinking of sending his skaters into competition injured, e.g., Rachael Flatt.

Joshua Farris and his reaction at the kiss n cry is comes to my mind.

I don't think a Tom Z. student has competed that injured in awhile. In fact, I think Joshua was the last notable case - and I think that Tom Z. either learned from it and/or USFS must have said something to him.

Tom Z. seemed to be fairly supportive of Max's recovery from his groin injury/surgery. But most of that was also off-season.

Did Mirai get hurt when she crashed into the boards during her 2015 U.S. Nationals free skate?

 

[IceAlisa]

She hasn't corrected her technique...

Why should she, she is a principal...and she is never going to be a ballerina assoluta

 

[Seerek]

ET: The process began then, the results came later. They put more money in the skating and the skaters, including Yuzuru Hanuy got a chance to practice abroad. They also realized they should not close within the country. Or in Asia in general. Almost all the Asian skaters left their countries at some point and continued their career abroad.

Eteri probably doesn't realize that Japanese skaters training abroad goes way back to at least the 1970s; Emi Watanabe pretty much grew up in the US from the age of 10 right up until the end of her eligible career at age 20. Fumio Igarashi was coached by Frank Carroll in the late 1970s as well.

 

[Darkverse]

Eteri probably doesn't realize that Japanese skaters training abroad goes way back to at least the 1970s; Emi Watanabe pretty much grew up in the US from the age of 10 right up until the end of her eligible career at age 20. Fumio Igarashi was coached by Frank Carroll in the late 1970s as well.

I think Eteri is more interested in her idea of Japanese skaters that she can unfavorably compare her students to than actual Japanese skaters.

 

[alchemy void]

TAT + Kovtun

This kind of made my night, thank you. Distracting myself from our real-life House of Cards.

Tutberidze is intense and kind of skary, I don't think I would want my hypothetical Russian child to be coached by her (probably prefer the more nurturing Tsareva type ). However, she gets results, and I'm not really sure it is the responsibility of the coach to prepare their students with "life skills", and don't find the discussed gymnastics parallels relevant.

 

[Amantide]

Thank you so much @TAHbKA for the translation. You've done a wonderful job with such a long interview.

Well, I don't think that Tutberidze "doesn't care" about the crucial transition; she just hasn't had to deal with it yet in either her athletes or her daughter.

Yes, she had to deal with and she has failed so far. I'm fine with Eteri, she is not everybody's cup of tea. But so far she has proven that she can produce great teen skaters and that's it. I'm holding my judgment till I see at least two of the many gifted and talented skaters that she has, last like Michelle, Mao&Co.

Well, okay then!

 

[Rina RUS]

I was thinking that TAT was a lot more maternal but still extremely overbearing as a coach. She didn't drag her students across the ice like Eteri but she did expect complete control. I don't know what TAT was like as a young coach.

From what I have noted, TAT is more maternal IF you are producing results that she deems acceptable...

TAT is maternal after the rink, on the rink she is tough. Kulik warned Yagudin: "beware that you don't turn your toes up!" ("beware that she doesn't kill you!") As far as I remember, Kulik also was saying to TAT: "Don't try to get into me".
Sorry, it is not good to tell it now, but Kulik ran as fast as he could from Tarasova after his Olympics, he said: "You've done it for me, I've done it for you".
Yet Yagudin said to TAT: "Do whatever you want to me". He is the one who let her "get into" him. TAT didn't know where was the limit for him (and for her), that is why she still repeats, that Yagudin "can do everything".

Gachinski said, that TAT taught him to be a real man (even though Gachinski worked with Mishin before TAT)
http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20160201/893211057.html

 

[Rina RUS]

I noticed these words about Pitkeev and Voronov in the article:
"They used to ran from ice one after another, sending us to a place, where nobody would like to go."

"Sending" should mean "go to ass hole" or... one more variant is even less polite.
Maybe Tutberidze is too maternal?
Tarasova didn't allow such words.

Tarasova allowed Yagudin to run from a rink (not with the words "I leave", he just ran away). Tarasova allowed him cursing (before they started to work together he said, that if he would curse at practice, these words wouldn't mean his disrespectful attitude to her). As far as I understand, Tarasova used to make him work longer than he expected on those days, when the work was hard for him... He says she always was right. He "sent" her only once, I think. Tarasova says she never asked whether his leg hurt or not, she knew his leg hurt. Just before his Olympics the problem with with the leg became worse than before, but doctors didn't see any problem, Yagudin tried to explain to Tarasova, that the problem was real, Tarasova was shouting... when Yagudin "sent" her, she slapped on his nape and said she wasn't going to the Olympics with him. He tells with a smile, that she had heavy rings on her hand, and he almost saw stars. Nobody knows could she really stopped working with him or not, but (as far as I remember) they nearly didn't talk, when they started to work again.

Yet of course, I don't know what Tutberidze should do with her naughty kids. Well, maybe they don't pronounce where they "send" her, yet... it isn't much better.

 

[hanca]

Yet Yagudin said to TAT: "Do whatever you want to me". He is the one who let her "get into" him. TAT didn't know where was the limit for him (and for her), that is why she still repeats, that Yagudin "can do everything".

Did you really mean to say that Yagudin let TAT let into him? I struggle to imagine that. I could imagine Yagudin getting into her, but I don't think it is what you implied, is it?

 

[VGThuy]

Getting into him/her sounds sort of dirty.

 

[Rina RUS]

Did you really mean to say that Yagudin let TAT let into him? I struggle to imagine that. I could imagine Yagudin getting into her, but I don't think it is what you implied, is it?

As far as I remember, Kulik was saying to TAT: "Don't try to get into me".
Yagudin said to TAT: "Do whatever you want to me".

Just don't try to imagine.

(Kulik wanted to say something like this: don't try to become me, don't try to get into my skin... or to control me absolutely?)

 

[hanca]

Getting into him/her sounds sort of dirty.

That's exactly what I thought. I was wondering whether I have dirty mind, but it wasn't me posting such a thing here, it was @Rina RUS , so it must be her who has dirty mind.