Russian women news & updates, 2021-22 season

love_skate2011

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3,440
Kostornaia getting very low PCS is a huge red flag from the judges! :eek: Time to dump this "Four Seasons" program. The judges are clearly telling her that with those Perf/Exec and Interpretation marks, in particular. Shockingly low compared to previous years. They must really hate this LP.

But which old program should she go back to? Twilight?

Such a shame. So much potential, but I wonder if Danni G sabotaged her with this awful LP.
lower than Loena Hendrickx ?

and LOL at Tuk getting the highest PCS :slinkaway
does she get the mature PCS marks ? judges seem to think she is the new Kostner.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
52,019
Kostornaia getting very low PCS is a huge red flag from the judges! :eek: Time to dump this "Four Seasons" program. The judges are clearly telling her that with those Perf/Exec and Interpretation marks, in particular. Shockingly low compared to previous years. They must really hate this LP.

But which old program should she go back to? Twilight?

Such a shame. So much potential, but I wonder if Danni G sabotaged her with this awful LP.
I think there could be multiple factors here.

Kosto is no longer among the top Russian ladies because she left TT, then she came back

She made mistakes on the first two jumps. Judges mark down PCS when a skater makes mistakes technically (they should not affect the PCS negatively but they do).

Kosto has lost a lot of her mojo when you compare her with 2020. Other Russian ladies have passed her by.

She is still struggling with the 3A, and she does not have a quad, which makes her less competitive in Russia.

Not sure that DG would intentionally sabotage her. However if her past LP is better perhaps she should consider switching to it. It is still early in the season.
 
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love_skate2011

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,440
With Kamilas Score, it will be hard for anyone to beat her if she lands those triple axels, Not even a 5 quad Trusova can beat that

Trusova HAS NEVER landed a triple axel. NEVER
Will the lack of Triple axel define Trusovas' career ? people usually zoom in to people's shortcomings or their lack of.

Trusova has quads for sure, but does she have a triple axel ?
she better start focusing everything in Landing that triple axel, that's all that matters if she wants to beat Kamila.
 

DreamSkates

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,748
With Kamilas Score, it will be hard for anyone to beat her if she lands those triple axels, Not even a 5 quad Trusova can beat that

Trusova HAS NEVER landed a triple axel. NEVER
Will the lack of Triple axel define Trusovas' career ? people usually zoom in to people's shortcomings or their lack of.

Trusova has quads for sure, but does she have a triple axel ?
she better start focusing everything in Landing that triple axel, that's all that matters if she wants to beat Kamila.
Even if Trusova lands quads like she did in her test skate? Seems that many quads would outscore 3A.
 

Scott512

Well-Known Member
Messages
490
Kostornaia getting very low PCS is a huge red flag from the judges! :eek: Time to dump this "Four Seasons" program. The judges are clearly telling her that with those Perf/Exec and Interpretation marks, in particular. Shockingly low compared to previous years. They must really hate this LP.

But which old program should she go back to? Twilight?

Such a shame. So much potential, but I wonder if Danni G sabotaged her with this awful LP.
It's very upsetting what happened to aliona. She went back to TT and humbled herself and humiliated herself on television and then she ends up with the 2 worst programs we've ever seen her have. Now she can still skate better and score much higher or special if she gets her triple axle back to the high level is eye level she can score 230 points again plus.

Then you have 6 or 7 Olympic caliber athletes in one discipline for 1 coach there's only so many good programs can go around and I don't think they sabotaged AK. I just think she's down the totem pole and when sasha came back that pushed aliona down even further. I think TT looks at it like this KV has the biggest upsis the biggest upside and Anya is their favorite because she's been there like 13 years.

Alyona is up against it but if she can get that triple axle back and she can do 2 in her free skate watch out. Nobody is at the best in October.

Don't be surprised if Maya takes the 3rd spot. It's totally up for grabs between aliona sasha Liza Maya and Dasha.
 

Marco

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,993
Aliona is no longer the top seed Russian woman as she was 2 years ago. Those whom she was able to hold off previously due to her more complete package have won World medals last season, and those who shared the same edge as her but were too young are now of age and outjumping her. She needs to re-build her momentum from scratch and show the judges that she can too be a contender. Not landing a single clean 3axel at Finlandia is probably why the judges are not yet taking her seriously.

What's more worrisome for her is not her own lower PCS but should more be Elizaveta's PCS (and GOEs). For me this shows the judges are pretty resigned to the fate of Russian domination at most comps this season and simply don't care about proper scoring - so they just judged based on jump difficulty and crowd reaction. Even if you feel PCS is subjective, those GOEs for her spins were really criminal.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, Three A's, T&M, P&C
Messages
52,019
It's very upsetting what happened to aliona. She went back to TT and humbled herself and humiliated herself on television and then she ends up with the 2 worst programs we've ever seen her have. Now she can still skate better and score much higher or special if she gets her triple axle back to the high level is eye level she can score 230 points again plus.

Then you have 6 or 7 Olympic caliber athletes in one discipline for 1 coach there's only so many good programs can go around and I don't think they sabotaged AK. I just think she's down the totem pole and when sasha came back that pushed aliona down even further. I think TT looks at it like this KV has the biggest upsis the biggest upside and Anya is their favorite because she's been there like 13 years.

Alyona is up against it but if she can get that triple axle back and she can do 2 in her free skate watch out. Nobody is at the best in October.

Don't be surprised if Maya takes the 3rd spot. It's totally up for grabs between aliona sasha Liza Maya and Dasha.
Nothing is certain. It is not just the third spot. Right now Anna is number one because she is the reigning world champion, and a three time Russian national champion. If she skates well during the season, she will have an easier road to the Olympics. I don't understand why people are assuming Kamila is a lock. She is in the same boat as everyone else. They all have to earn the berth.
 
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hanca

Values her privacy
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11,925
It's very upsetting what happened to aliona. She went back to TT and humbled herself and humiliated herself on television and then she ends up with the 2 worst programs we've ever seen her have.
one could argue that if she didn’t make the interviews she did when she left Tutberidze, she wouldn’t have to humble herself and humiliate herself on television. I don’t think Trusova had to humble and humiliate herself when she returned to Tutberidze. But as Kostornaya spoke in such awful manner about Tutberidze, it is her fault that she was asked about that when she went back.
 

angi

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Messages
442
But as Kostornaya spoke in such awful manner about Tutberidze, it is her fault that she was asked about that when she went back.
What did she say that was so awful? That she's smiling more since she left and that she wasn't happy with the ice situation?
The adults in the situation said (and are still saying) about her things that are ten times worse than anything she said and I have more expectations from a group of adults over the ages of 30 and 40 than a 17 years old skater.
 

hanca

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11,925
What did she say that was so awful? That she's smiling more since she left and that she wasn't happy with the ice situation?
The adults in the situation said (and are still saying) about her things that are ten times worse than anything she said and I have more expectations from a group of adults over the ages of 30 and 40 than a 17 years old skater.
I am not going to be wasting my time searching through the interviews for you, but if you have plenty of time free, go back and compare Trusova and Kostornaya’s interviews after each of them left. Trusova managed to stay classy, not a bad word about Tutberidze. Kostornaya behaved like if she didn’t care whether she burned her bridges. Which is fine if you really don’t come back, but if you do, it has consequences- eating humble pie. In fact, I think she actually got off quite easy; I would expect her having harder time humiliating herself on TV. Tutberidze could have made her time much harder (publicly) and she didn’t.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
442
I am not going to be wasting my time searching through the interviews for you, but if you have plenty of time free, go back and compare Trusova and Kostornaya’s interviews after each of them left. Trusova managed to stay classy, not a bad word about Tutberidze. Kostornaya behaved like if she didn’t care whether she burned her bridges. Which is fine if you really don’t come back, but if you do, it has consequences- eating humble pie. In fact, I think she actually got off quite easy; I would expect her having harder time humiliating herself on TV. Tutberidze could have made her time much harder (publicly) and she didn’t.
It was a rhetorical question. I read all the interviews and don't need to look for anything, Trusova remained more diplomatic for sure but that doesn't mean Kostornaia said anything that was as damaging as you are trying to portray. Even Medvedeva said more "damaging" things at the time and was brought back without the shaming that Kostornaia had to endure.
And again, 17 years old acting out is expected (not that I think anything she said is even that bad, she was honest and not malicious), 40 years old acting out against teenagers is unacceptable, or at least it should be even if some are willing to give them a free pass.
 

hanca

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11,925
It was a rhetorical question. I read all the interviews and don't need to look for anything, Trusova remained more diplomatic for sure but that doesn't mean Kostornaia said anything that was as damaging as you are trying to portray. Even Medvedeva said more "damaging" things at the time and was brought back without the shaming that Kostornaia had to endure.
And again, 17 years old acting out is expected (not that I think anything she said is even that bad, she was honest and not malicious), 40 years old acting out against teenagers is unacceptable, or at least it should be even if some are willing to give them a free pass.
You clearly do need to remind yourself, if you honestly believe that what Kostornaya was doing was ok. I will agree that Medvedeva did something comparable and (relatively speaking) got away with it, but that still doesn’t give justification for Kostornaya’s behaviour and it didn’t give her a free pass.

I won’t argue that Tutberidze’s behaviour was great, in fact, she is pretty bad anytime when someone leaves her. That still doesn’t take away what Kostornaya said during her interviews. Yes, at 17 someone may not be fully mature, but she still has to take responsibility for her behaviour, especially when she is in a person known to public. I think Kostornaya’s interviews were pretty bad and she deserved being asked about it when she returned.
 

Bigbird

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Messages
2,144
You clearly do need to remind yourself, if you honestly believe that what Kostornaya was doing was ok. I will agree that Medvedeva did something comparable and (relatively speaking) got away with it, but that still doesn’t give justification for Kostornaya’s behaviour and it didn’t give her a free pass.

I won’t argue that Tutberidze’s behaviour was great, in fact, she is pretty bad anytime when someone leaves her. That still doesn’t take away what Kostornaya said during her interviews. Yes, at 17 someone may not be fully mature, but she still has to take responsibility for her behaviour, especially when she is in a person known to public. I think Kostornaya’s interviews were pretty bad and she deserved being asked about it when she returned.
Aliona should have stayed with Plushenko. Period. She knows she wasn't wanted or needed with Eteri, she understands the system and she still went back? Madness. Both her programs from last season were better than what she has now. Unfortunate.
 

hanca

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11,925
Aliona should have stayed with Plushenko. Period. She knows she wasn't wanted or needed with Eteri, she understands the system and she still went back? Madness. Both her programs from last season were better than what she has now. Unfortunate.
I don’t think it is about the programs though. If she skated the way she did two years ago, she would have a chance no matter what programs she would skate to. But she can’t expect to be scoring the same what skaters with 3A and quads. Even her skating is not as effortless as it was before. Skating has moved on. She is technically behind and her biggest strength (her basic skating) doesn’t stand out as much any more because her skills are not as sharp. Why should she be marked the same as she was before?
 

Bigbird

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2,144
I don’t think it is about the programs though. If she skated the way she did two years ago, she would have a chance no matter what programs she would skate to. But she can’t expect to be scoring the same what skaters with 3A and quads. Even her skating is not as effortless as it was before. Skating has moved on. She is technically behind and her biggest strength (her basic skating) doesn’t stand out as much any more because her skills are not as sharp. Why should she be marked the same as she was before?
This we do not question. The problems are almost all psychological and she's in an environment that doesn't help. Why force her to do something she is struggling with, give her programs that maximize on her strengths rather than these empty caravans that go nowhere. Athletes evolve they change they are not robots.
 

zoe111

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Messages
567
This we do not question. The problems are almost all psychological and she's in an environment that doesn't help. Why force her to do something she is struggling with, give her programs that maximize on her strengths rather than these empty caravans that go nowhere. Athletes evolve they change they are not robots.
This. i think Aliona has lost her confidence to be honest - everything is hesitant, she's not skating full out, not really into the choreography. It makes me sad because she was scoring right on top of Scherbakova who had 2 quads before the ********* hit, so she would be very competitive with a 3A in the short, and 2 in the free. I agree that if she's not into the programs, they should change them - whatever makes her comfortable.
 

Bigbird

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2,144
This. i think Aliona has lost her confidence to be honest - everything is hesitant, she's not skating full out, not really into the choreography. It makes me sad because she was scoring right on top of Scherbakova who had 2 quads before the ********* hit, so she would be very competitive with a 3A in the short, and 2 in the free. I agree that if she's not into the programs, they should change them - whatever makes her comfortable.
From our lips, we'll see. But I don't think the team cares. They'll just continue to haze her. This year is penance for how she left. They don't really care if this is her last season or not. In a word: savage.
 

angi

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Messages
442
This. i think Aliona has lost her confidence to be honest - everything is hesitant, she's not skating full out, not really into the choreography. It makes me sad because she was scoring right on top of Scherbakova who had 2 quads before the ********* hit, so she would be very competitive with a 3A in the short, and 2 in the free. I agree that if she's not into the programs, they should change them - whatever makes her comfortable.
For me, it's not even about her skating anymore, ever since last season she's been clearly struggling. I'm not a mental health professional and I won't presume to psychoanalyze her, but it seems like there's a certain level of anxiety that's plaguing her. I remember them saying that she was always a nervous competitor but it's much more than that now, since Russian Cup Finale she seems terrified and anxious more than any other skater I've ever seen. Following her practices and warm-ups - she barely jumps, she mostly skates around, and she seems deflated and anxious. And the biggest tragedy is that no one seems to do anything about it, she should have gotten counseling and seen a sports psychologist a long time ago but that's not how the system works for her. Her talent is clearly there, she lands huge triples in the second half of her FS and when she's on she delivers in terms of interpretation. Her issues are mostly mental but no one seems to think those should be addressed.
If anything, in yesterday's pictures she looks better than she has in a long time, it's almost like the worst has happened and she realized she's still OK and it might have liberated something in her. Or at least I hope it did.
 

hanca

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This we do not question. The problems are almost all psychological and she's in an environment that doesn't help. Why force her to do something she is struggling with, give her programs that maximize on her strengths rather than these empty caravans that go nowhere. Athletes evolve they change they are not robots.
I don’t think you know better than her what the problem is. I disagree with it being mostly psychological. If it was, it would make sense to stay with Pluschenko because she claimed how great she felt being there. The fact that she made herself go back even though it couldn’t be easy for her suggests that the problems are with her skills and from whatever reason she believes she can get it from Tutberidze’s group rather than from Pluschenko. In my view the problem is that her skills deteriorated. She matured, her figure changed, but she did not manage to adjust the skating to it yet. So the skating skills that looked effortless are suddenly done with much more effort. She lost the lightness of her skating, it now looks like a hard work. That’s nothing to do with confidence, it is a skills that she acquired and then unfortunately lost it. She may have to work on it, or she may accept that her PCS are not going to be making up for the lower TES. I am not saying that her skating skills are bad; she just doesn’t stand out any more and therefore lost the advantage she had.
 

angi

Well-Known Member
Messages
442
I don’t think you know better than her what the problem is. I disagree with it being mostly psychological. If it was, it would make sense to stay with Pluschenko because she claimed how great she felt being there. The fact that she made herself go back even though it couldn’t be easy for her suggests that the problems are with her skills and from whatever reason she believes she can get it from Tutberidze’s group rather than from Pluschenko. In my view the problem is that her skills deteriorated. She matured, her figure changed, but she did not manage to adjust the skating to it yet. So the skating skills that looked effortless are suddenly done with much more effort. She lost the lightness of her skating, it now looks like a hard work. That’s nothing to do with confidence, it is a skills that she acquired and then unfortunately lost it. She may have to work on it, or she may accept that her PCS are not going to be making up for the lower TES. I am not saying that her skating skills are bad; she just doesn’t stand out any more and therefore lost the advantage she had.
It was strongly rumored at the time that the federation strongly hinted at her that if she wants a chance she needs to go back.
And it's worth noting that just because she said it was so much better at AoP it doesn't mean it actually was, Russian ladies skaters don't seem to have agency over their coaches and federation and it's more than possible (and I'll say even likely) that they are given talking points they have to stick with, no matter how close to reality they actually are.
 

hanca

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11,925
It was strongly rumored at the time that the federation strongly hinted at her that if she wants a chance she needs to go back.
And it's worth noting that just because she said it was so much better at AoP it doesn't mean it actually was, Russian ladies skaters don't seem to have agency over their coaches and federation and it's more than possible (and I'll say even likely) that they are given talking points they have to stick with, no matter how close to reality they actually are.
There is so many rumours about why she chose to go back. Federation forced her, her relationship with a certain coach, even her rumoured pregnancy… whatever the truth is, her skills are much worse and that is not going to be fixed by getting her confidence back. She has to work hard and hope that she will catch up. The question is whether there is enough time for that. She has only four months, that’s not so long.
 

angi

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442
There is so many rumours about why she chose to go back. Federation forced her, her relationship with a certain coach, even her rumoured pregnancy… whatever the truth is, her skills are much worse and that is not going to be fixed by getting her confidence back. She has to work hard and hope that she will catch up. The question is whether there is enough time for that. She has only four months, that’s not so long.
I don't agree but I think we can agree to disagree at this point. It was just important for me to say that it's not a relationship, it's grooming and abuse.
 

zebraswan

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1,221
It's very possible that she still has some lingering effects from *********. Everyone is affected differently. Nobody here can possibly know what is going on in her body or mind with any certainty. I don't see the point of perpetuating baseless rumors about her personal life...seriously, pregnancy? Good grief...🙄
 

annie_mg

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,198
It's very possible that she still has some lingering effects from *********. Everyone is affected differently. Nobody here can possibly know what is going on in her body or mind with any certainty. I don't see the point of perpetuating baseless rumors about her personal life...seriously, pregnancy? Good grief...🙄
It's been rumoured and was cited from many sources, some quite reliable.
 

zebraswan

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Messages
1,221
It just seems disgusting to me for anyone to be spreading rumors about an active teenage athlete potentially being (or having been) pregnant...whether true or not. If true - who would share that info and why? Doesn't she have a right to privacy? If not true - it's just pathetic to even go there.
 

annie_mg

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Messages
1,198
It just seems disgusting to me for anyone to be spreading rumors about an active teenage athlete potentially being (or having been) pregnant...whether true or not. If true - who would share that info and why? Doesn't she have a right to privacy? If not true - it's just pathetic to even go there.
I'm not the one spreading the rumour and I agree and was shocked when I first read it.
 

haribobo

Why is summer so hot omg
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8,497
Perhaps a trade is in order- Eteri can take Camden and try to whip him into shape, and nice supportive Tammy G can take on Alena and some random colorado tik tok dance person can give her some fun programs and she gets her groove back and she can switch to Cyprus or whatever
 

layman

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Messages
354
With Kamilas Score, it will be hard for anyone to beat her if she lands those triple axels, Not even a 5 quad Trusova can beat that

Trusova HAS NEVER landed a triple axel. NEVER
Will the lack of Triple axel define Trusovas' career ? people usually zoom in to people's shortcomings or their lack of.

Trusova has quads for sure, but does she have a triple axel ?
she better start focusing everything in Landing that triple axel, that's all that matters if she wants to beat Kamila.
Trusova is determined to land a 3-axel in her SP. In her last competition, she just performed the SP, so that she could gain more experience putting it out under pressure. Apparently, she can land them easily in practice but it's harder in the competition. That's why she and her team are trying so hard to get it clean in the SP. I think she will keep trying it (in the SP) in every competition this season.

BTW, EVERY quad has a higher point value than a 3-axel does. So five quads will outscore two 3-axels and three quads. All Trusova needs to do is land the 3-axel in her SP (where none of the women are allowed to do quads).
 

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