Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[barbarafan]

I can't imagine she finds any enjoyment in her experience. To the contrary, I expect it was very traumatic. She must have been expecting fame and fortune, and instead she got tragedy.

That is what happens when you cheat to win. You become infamous and are shunned by anyone decent. Her family is garbage and so is she. They should have told the truth during the investigation, not cashed in. Maybe she will move to the states and when she is 60 take part in DWTS and come last.

 

[Sylvia]

Her family is garbage and so is she.

Your empathy for a 16-year-old is heartwarming.

 

[barbarafan]

Your empathy for a 16-year-old is heartwarming.

My empathy for the said 16 yr. old ended when the lying and ridiculous stories came out under investigation. And her fake medal presentation and her great fun in shows ever since really wiped it out. I don't know if you remember being a 16 yr. old girl but I really do..as well as twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen. I certainly knew right from wrong and the consequences that could happen.

 

[Sylvia]

Not sure why you 'liked' my post ?

I don't know if you remember being a 16 yr. old girl but I really do..as well as twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen. I certainly knew right from wrong and the consequences that could happen.

I don't know anything about being a 16 year old girl living in today's Russia and can only imagine the "consequences that could happen" had Valieva elected to refuse all the public accolades and opportunties that were showered on her post-Olympics.

 

[tony]

My empathy for the said 16 yr. old ended when the lying and ridiculous stories came out under investigation. And her fake medal presentation and her great fun in shows ever since really wiped it out. I don't know if you remember being a 16 yr. old girl but I really do..as well as twelve, thirteen, fourteen and fifteen. I certainly knew right from wrong and the consequences that could happen.

I’m tired of reading posts like this from the saints of FSU who always do right in 100% of the situations yet somehow have missed the understanding that not everyone is the same.

You nor I know the extent of what Valieva knew or understood scientifically. She could have been told it was a pre or post-recovery during non-competition periods, for example. She could have been forced into saying the grandpa story after she was backed into a corner. Maybe she was a genius like the select posters of FSU and knew exactly what she was doing. But I personally don’t think that’s likely.

 

[Vagabond]

Even if Valieva was in on the whole thing, she would still be a victim of child abuse and deserving of sympathy for that reason alone.

Abuse clouds judgment, especially in the young.

We don't know the whole story, and maybe we never shall.

 

[olympic]

Are we any closer on a decision effecting the outcome of the team medals ?? I paged back a bit but didn't see anything. Perhaps I missed something ... Any info on the hold-up? This all borders on the ridiculous.

 

[Sylvia]

Are we any closer on a decision effecting the outcome of the team medals ?? I paged back a bit but didn't see anything.

No. Did you page back far enough to see Brennan's latest article? https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...y-for-team-medals.109402/page-49#post-6296770

"Hearings in the Disciplinary Anti-Doping Committee of the Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) in the case of the Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva will be held in late September - early October, [according to] RUSADA CEO Veronika Loginova."

 

[Trillian]

I don't know anything about being a 16 year old girl living in today's Russia and can only imagine the "consequences that could happen" had Valieva elected to refuse all the public accolades and opportunties that were showered on her post-Olympics.

Most of us here don’t even know what it’s like being an adult in today’s Russia.

I understand the anger at the actions of institutions and even certain individuals who are in positions of power. But I think a lot of the animosity among fans toward individual skaters shows a real lack of understanding of the fact that most of them have been taught for their entire lives to understand these situations completely differently than many of us do. If someone’s been either lying to Valieva for years about whatever drugs they’re giving her, or being honest about what they are but also telling her all the Western skaters are taking the same thing, why on earth would she question that? She’s not a diabolical mastermind out for her own gain at the expense of everyone else. She’s a kid who experienced trauma and abuse, who’s moving forward on what is most likely the only path she sees as being available to her.

 

[coppertop1]

Now that we are some distance away mentally and emotionally from the Olympics, this whole thing just becomes sadder and sadder to me. Whether Valieva finds some sense of enjoyment out of her Olympic experience or not, one has to believe this is not what she had hoped for. Such a talented and beautiful skater, those whose hands are dirty in this deserve real torment in their private thoughts. Of course, for all those skaters who trained and competed cleanly, I can't imagine their dismay.

What happened in Beijing was a huge black mark on this sport. I think the fact image of Valieva breaking down and then being berated by her coach and Trusova's having a breakdown while Shchberkova sat there looking lost and alone is an image that will stick with us for a long time. Valieva could have been great but it was all taken from her. It must have been incredibly frustrating and disheartening for the other women. She Russia is still insisting they did nothing wrong. They need to be banned permanently. No more chances. Enough is enough.

Meanwhile, USA, Canada and Japan are left waiting to see when/if they will get their medals.

 

[Hedwig]

What happened in Beijing was a huge black mark on this sport. I think the fact image of Valieva breaking down and then being berated by her coach and Trusova's having a breakdown while Shchberkova sat there looking lost and alone is an image that will stick with us for a long time.

It did indeed. I can only look back in horror to the last Olympics.

Valieva could have been great but it was all taken from her.

What is missing for me in these kinds of sentences(not only from you but from a lot of people) is the understanding that maybe she would not have been great, if she had not been doped.
This is not peformance enhancing drug that gives a one time push but this enabled her to train more every day than if she had not taken the drug. It might mean an hour of extra practice a day. A faster recovery for next day. The impact of that cannot be overstated in skating since it is repetition, repetition, repetion in skating. Even more so than in other sports.

 

[coppertop1]

What is missing for me in these kinds of sentences(not only from you but from a lot of people) is the understanding that maybe she would not have been great, if she had not been doped.
This is not peformance enhancing drug that gives a one time push but this enabled her to train more every day than if she had not taken the drug. It might mean an hour of extra practice a day. A faster recovery for next day. The impact of that cannot be overstated in skating since it is repetition, repetition, repetion in skating. Even more so than in other sports.

Fair point. We will never know either way. Especially as we don't know how long this was going on for.

 

[Trillian]

What is missing for me in these kinds of sentences(not only from you but from a lot of people) is the understanding that maybe she would not have been great, if she had not been doped.

And really, we’re never going to know how much harm has been done to how many other people. How many other girls have been drugged, and what was the impact on them? How many other skaters, inside and outside Russia, have been injured, developed eating disorders, or dealt with psychological fallout because they couldn’t keep up with Eteri’s abuse factory? The American media has been comparing the U.S. women unfavorably to the Russians for years - and some of them have talked about the impact that had on them - but to what extent have they been held to a standard that wasn’t even realistically achievable to them? Who else, including smaller fed skaters, might have lost medals, prize money, competitive opportunities, or sponsorships because they had to compete against skaters who were doping?

Maybe it was really only Valieva the one time, even if history suggests otherwise. But one of the things that makes doping so harmful to sports is that you can never account for the full extent of its impact.

 

[coppertop1]

And really, we’re never going to know how much harm has been done to how many other people. How many other girls have been drugged, and what was the impact on them? How many other skaters, inside and outside Russia, have been injured, developed eating disorders, or dealt with psychological fallout because they couldn’t keep up with Eteri’s abuse factory? The American media has been comparing the U.S. women unfavorably to the Russians for years - and some of them have talked about the impact that had on them - but to what extent have they been held to a standard that wasn’t even realistically achievable to them? Who else, including smaller fed skaters, might have lost medals, prize money, competitive opportunities, or sponsorships because they had to compete against skaters who were doping?

Two prime examples of skaters who have suffered because of the pressure to chase the Russians for me are: Rika Kihira and Bradie Tennell. They missed an entire season because of injuries. Rika was trying to do quads and I think Bradie was practicing triple Axels. They both missed the Olympics. Rika is still struggling with her injuries.

It's possible that Valieva is the only one but very unlikely. I worry about all the juniors, especially under Eteri. Petrusyan, Akatieva, etc. It's very disturbing. I don't blame Valieva. She's the victim.

 

[Hedwig]

I blame Valieva a little bit - 16 is not 8, she has a shared responsibility but it probably is very tiny. She probably has been doped for a few years now, has been under enormous pressure and intimidation - there was probably never really an opportunity to understand how wrong it is what she was doing and even less an invitation to share her thoughts on - well - anything.

 

[Allskate]

Even if Valieva was in on the whole thing, she would still be a victim of child abuse and deserving of sympathy for that reason alone.

Abuse clouds judgment, especially in the young.

Regardless of whether and why she lied, regardless of what she knew and wanted, regardless of whether she feels any remorse, regardless of fame and fortune and what kind of political figures she supports, I think the broader issue is how to deter this kind of cheating and abuse of athletes. I think that would be true even if she were not 16. IMO, it is not enough just to strip her of a medal or prevent her from competing for a period of time, which I think should be done even if there is reason to feel sympathy for her. Those around her and the entire apparatus must pay a big price in order to deter this kind of conduct. The doping is not good for the athletes or the sport. If there is not significant action taken, there will be more Valievas cheating and being abused and there will be more athletes who don't dope who will be adversely impacted. I do feel sad for Valieva, but I think the issue goes far beyond her.

 

[coppertop1]

I blame Valieva a little bit - 16 is not 8, she has a shared responsibility but it probably is very tiny. She probably has been doped for a few years now, has been under enormous pressure and intimidation - there was probably never really an opportunity to understand how wrong it is what she was doing and even less an invitation to share her thoughts on - well - anything.

They probably lied and promised to protect her etc. I doubt they were honest. We saw with Nassar how easy it is to manipulate young athletes.

Regardless of whether and why she lied, regardless of what she knew and wanted, regardless of whether she feels any remorse, regardless of fame and fortune and what kind of political figures she supports, I think the broader issue is how to deter this kind of cheating and abuse of athletes. I think that would be true even if she were not 16. IMO, it is not enough just to strip her of a medal or prevent her from competing for a period of time, which I think should be done even if there is reason to feel sympathy for her. Those around her and the entire apparatus must pay a big price in order to deter this kind of conduct. The doping is not good for the athletes or the sport. If there is not significant action taken, there will be more Valievas cheating and being abused and there will be more athletes who don't dope who will be adversely impacted. I do feel sad for Valieva, but I think the issue goes far beyond her.

Agreed. She is a symptom not the problem. State-sponsored doping is rampant in Russia and abusive coaches are an issue in sport everywhere. Eteri isn't the only one. Things need to change because figure skating is in trouble.

 

[barbarafan]

They probably lied and promised to protect her etc. I doubt they were honest. We saw with Nassar how easy it is to manipulate young athletes.

Agreed. She is a symptom not the problem. State-sponsored doping is rampant in Russia and abusive coaches are an issue in sport everywhere. Eteri isn't the only one. Things need to change because figure skating is in trouble.

Rules should now be made that if any Team has a skater caught doping that all skaters in the club are suspended. Pls don't tell me that the coaches don't know or are not actively complicit in this. At least someone is bound to tell that way....(but I hope they don't have balconies at home)

 

[her grace]

Rules should now be made that if any Team has a skater caught doping that all skaters in the club are suspended. Pls don't tell me that the coaches don't know or are not actively complicit in this. At least someone is bound to tell that way....(but I hope they don't have balconies at home)

So you would be okay with Knierim/Frazier being banned when Calalang/Johnson were?

 

[barbarafan]

So you would be okay with Knierim/Frazier being banned when Calalang/Johnson were?

what are the details? What did they do? were they at the same club?

 

[rfisher]

So you would be okay with Knierim/Frazier being banned when Calalang/Johnson were?

Exactly. Or the entire Spanish team. Some people are holding the Russians to a much higher standard than the rest of the skating community. Nobody suggested all US athletes be banned when the track and field members were caught doping. And, to my knowledge, only Valieva tested positive for a banned substance, not the entire Russian contingent.

 

[exNyer]

If kamila even knew what is given to her by her doctors and coaches is extremely doubtful. Russia is a dictatorship. Those who speak out “fall out of windows “

 

[MacMadame]

what are the details? What did they do? were they at the same club?

The details are that Calalang tested positive but wasn't doping and was able to both clear her name and cause WADA to make changes in how they test so another person wouldn't have to go through what she did.

But, sure, suspend everyone who skates at her rink and/or her club and/or her coach. That totally jives with the "innocent until proven guilty" principle that our entire justice system is based on.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

The US legal system of innocent until guilty has no reason to be listed here. WADA is guilty until innocent once a test is positive and only applies to the individual athlete. So that's really the only system that matters to the discussion.

 

[Hedwig]

Exactly. Or the entire Spanish team. Some people are holding the Russians to a much higher standard than the rest of the skating community. Nobody suggested all US athletes be banned when the track and field members were caught doping. And, to my knowledge, only Valieva tested positive for a banned substance, not the entire Russian contingent.

some people remember that there is state sponsored doping in Russia and that Valieva is by far not the first to be caught with an illegal drug in her system and that there are countless interviews with Russian coaches saying that doping is necessary or that they need an alternative to a certain drug if something is banned and that the evil west is using this as a move against them instead of seeing a widespread declaration that using doping, especially in children, is not the way to go.

 

[Maximillian]

some people remember that there is state sponsored doping in Russia and that Valieva is by far not the first to be caught with an illegal drug in her system and that there are countless interviews with Russian coaches saying that doping is necessary or that they need an alternative to a certain drug if something is banned and that the evil west is using this as a move against them instead of seeing a widespread declaration that using doping, especially in children, is not the way to go.

Doping is rampant in all elite-level sport in Russia AND the West, to say that doping is a 'Russian' thing is very naive.

 

[coppertop1]

Doping is rampant in all elite-level sport in Russia AND the West, to say that doping is a 'Russian' thing is very naive.

Russia has a state-sponsored doping program.

 

[Vagabond]

Doping is rampant in all elite-level sport in Russia AND the West, to say that doping is a 'Russian' thing is very naive.

To ignore the fact that the poster was explicitly referring to Russia's state-sponsored doping program, which is the only one of its kind and scale within common knowledge, is very disingenuous.

 

[soogar]

Russia has a state-sponsored doping program.

So it's better that US athletes just dope in their gyms. There are a lot of performance enhancing drugs being used in the United States. You only have to look at fitness competitions and bodybuilding (and Instagram) to see how readily available they are.

 

[coppertop1]

So it's better that US athletes just dope in their gyms. There are a lot of performance enhancing drugs being used in the United States. You only have to look at fitness competitions and bodybuilding (and Instagram) to see how readily available they are.

Strawman argument.