Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

Allskate

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Not disagreeing with a lot of what you say, but ...
It takes a special kind of fool to believe that only Russian skaters are doping.

I don't doubt that there are some skaters who are doping. However, I'm not convinced that there are more than a few countries engaged in systemic doping of their figure skaters. I had far more confidence that the figure skaters at Worlds were not part of systemic doping. It was nice to look at the podiums at Worlds and not find myself wondering which skaters were doping.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

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I don't doubt that there are some skaters who are doping. However, I'm not convinced that there are more than a few countries engaged in systemic doping of their figure skaters. I had far more confidence that the figure skaters at Worlds were not part of systemic doping. It was nice to look at the podiums at Worlds and not find myself wondering which skaters were doping.
Would it make you feel better if it weren't countries but specific clubs? And it were not systemic doping but systemic therapeutic exemptions? At the end of a day, it's all the same. Skaters, gymnasts, tennis players, etc etc etc everywhere take recovery cocktails. And so many of them have long lists of permitted medication that will make you gasp. You'd think these elite athletes are terminally ill. I can go on and on. It's systemic permitted doping. Doesn't make it any better.
 
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Allskate

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Would it make you feel better if it weren't countries but specific clubs? And it were not systemic doping but systemic therapeutic exemptions?
A country's systemic bogus therapeutic exemptions probably would not make me feel better, although at least then I wouldn't worry that a skater might be taking substances without knowing it. If a particular club was doping without the country's implicit or explicit support or knowledge and the country and sport and federation actually were trying to put a stop to doping, then I would feel better. (If a country is knowingly letting particular clubs dope, then I still would consider it systemic doping.) It would not make me feel good if a skater or two got away with it despite the country's genuine efforts to prevent doping, but it would make me feel better. IMO, it would be better than a country's widespread systemic doping where the "anti-doping" efforts were a farce and athletes (especially young ones) are being abused. At the very least, that would most likely mean fewer cheaters. And it might mean fewer abused skaters and more respect for the sport. I enjoyed the Words women's competition so much more than the Olympics women's competition.
 

Willin

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I honestly hate when people try to excuse Russia by saying other athletes dope too. Yeah, other athletes dope, but it's not sponsored by or covered up by their country. In the US, USADA has hurt the US's chances, ruined careers, and cost US sporting organizations/athletes lots of money by catching doping violations or even just investigating possible violations (as with Jessica Calalang). USADA has suspended athletes for buying the wrong brand of vitamins before - because that brand had poor quality control and contained a little of a banned substance - so you don't even have to be trying to dope to get banned. If you listen to US skaters (and athletes in general) they are terrified of USADA. So, yeah, excuse me if I'm not ready to believe that other athletes are doping or even trying to dope on the scale of Russian athletes.
 

soogar

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I honestly hate when people try to excuse Russia by saying other athletes dope too. Yeah, other athletes dope, but it's not sponsored by or covered up by their country. In the US, USADA has hurt the US's chances, ruined careers, and cost US sporting organizations/athletes lots of money by catching doping violations or even just investigating possible violations (as with Jessica Calalang). USADA has suspended athletes for buying the wrong brand of vitamins before - because that brand had poor quality control and contained a little of a banned substance - so you don't even have to be trying to dope to get banned. If you listen to US skaters (and athletes in general) they are terrified of USADA. So, yeah, excuse me if I'm not ready to believe that other athletes are doping or even trying to dope on the scale of Russian athletes.
There was only one positive test for figure skating and it seemed like only a handful for Russia. How is that indicative that they have returned to systemic doping?

I also agree with the opinion that athletes take a lot of supplements to aid recovery. The average person goes to GNC and buys stuff to recover. I also take a preworkout supplement that has L- carnitine, the same stuff that people like to claim is a heart medicine. It’s like calling coenzyme q10 a heart medicine just because it is taken for heart health.
 

skatfan

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There was only one positive test for figure skating and it seemed like only a handful for Russia. How is that indicative that they have returned to systemic doping?
Oh please. Watch the movie Icarus. Read Rodchenkov’s descriptions of what Russia did then. There’s a reason Russia doesn’t do its own testing, doesn’t get to wear Russian uniforms, show its flag or have its national anthem played, and some sports don’t let them in their Olympic sports. They’ve never left doping.
 

coppertop1

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Oh please. Watch the movie Icarus. Read Rodchenkov’s descriptions of what Russia did then. There’s a reason Russia doesn’t do its own testing, doesn’t get to wear Russian uniforms, show its flag or have its national anthem played, and some sports don’t let them in their Olympic sports. They’ve never left doping.
And the athletes are tired of it. Fans are tired of it. We've seen athletes ever since the Russian systemic doping was revealed that Russia shouldn't be at the Olympics. The Valieva Doping Scandal should be the wake up call
 

hanca

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Would it make you feel better if it weren't countries but specific clubs? And it were not systemic doping but systemic therapeutic exemptions? At the end of a day, it's all the same. Skaters, gymnasts, tennis players, etc etc etc everywhere take recovery cocktails. And so many of them have long lists of permitted medication that will make you gasp. You'd think these elite athletes are terminally ill. I can go on and on. It's systemic permitted doping. Doesn't make it any better.
I agree with the points you raised. When we are talking about looking harder at possible doping and having ‘proper’ consequences, I think we should at the same time reexamine how come some countries have such a high level of therapeutic exceptions. The system of those exceptions should change - it should not be based on a medical opinion of doctors from the same countries the athletes represent; the athletes should have tests and be diagnosed by some international professional medical organisation, so that the same standard is used for athletes from all countries. I know it is unlikely to happen, but when I see a country with very, very high level of prescribed certain drugs, I start wondering whether there is something that makes people from that particular country more prone to having that particular medical condition, or whether doctors from some countries are more willing to prescribe something and the athletes therefore have unfair advantages that other athletes don’t have.
 

Sylvia

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Bumping this old thread back up 3 months later with this article today (June 10) that includes comments from the newly elected ISU President:
Excerpts:
New International Skating Union (ISU) President Kim Jae-youl has said Kamila Valieva's B sample is yet to be tested and the case remains "a work in progress".
Kim was speaking after being elected the organisation's first non-European President in a clear victory at the ISU Congress in Phuket.
The South Korean official refused to be drawn on the ongoing investigation and provided no further details, instead turning the focus to a rule change agreed earlier this week which will raise figure skating's minimum age to 17.
When asked whether he or the ISU had received any further information from the World Anti-Doping Agency about Valieva, Kim simply replied: "We have not."
Kim instead stressed that "we need to do everything we can to protect and develop our athletes". [...]
The Russian Anti-Doping Agency has been given until August 8 - six months from the time it was informed of Valieva's positive test - to investigate it and reach a decision on punishment.
Any decision could then face legal challenges at the Court of Arbitration for Sport.
 

Gris

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Not sure how truthful this is, but...


(Machine translation)

According to documents available to Match TV, between January and May 2022, the Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) tested 21 Russian figure skaters for doping, conducting a total of 33 doping control procedures.

Alexandra Trusova was tested twice. Anna Shcherbakova and Kamila Valieva were not tested by RUSADA in 2022.

These statistics refer only to the checks performed by RUSADA. Athletes who had competed in international competitions or were included in international testing pools could be tested by their international federations. One test does not mean one test, there can be several tests, for example when both urine and blood samples are taken as part of one visit. The exact number of samples taken by athletes is unknown.

:grandpa:
 

Bigbird

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Not sure how truthful this is, but...


(Machine translation)



:grandpa:
:barrel How long till they simply test sample B? How long did it take to wrap up Bobrova's case? Protected or not why the delay?
 

Orm Irian

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:barrel How long till they simply test sample B? How long did it take to wrap up Bobrova's case? Protected or not why the delay?
The way I understand it, the B sample is only tested if the athlete requests that it be tested. As Valieva has acknowledged having the banned substance in her system via the 'drank from granddad's water glass' story, it seems unlikely that she'd make such a request.
 

Sylvia

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Excerpt from the end of this AP article (June 11):
[WADA director general Olivier Niggli] said a target date in early August for Russian anti-doping agency RUSADA to complete its investigation is “not a hard deadline. There are procedural reasons that it sometimes takes more time.”
The Russian verdict can be challenged at CAS by WADA if it is not satisfied with the ruling or the integrity of the investigation.

Article by Andrey Simonenko (June 21):
The Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) does not plan to propose to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) to remove the drug trimetazidine, found in Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva, from the list of prohibited substances.
Earlier, a sports doctor, the head of the medical headquarters of the CSKA football club, Eduard Bezuglov, published an article where he said that trimetazidine was not actively used by athletes, even when it was allowed. According to him, there are no clinical studies that would confirm its sports effectiveness.
"There are no such plans," Anna Kondakova, head of science at RUSADA, replied at a media seminar in response to a question about whether RUSADA had plans to propose to WADA that trimetazidine be removed from the banned list.
 

starrynight

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My prediction is that it will take years for this to be finalised.

Ironically the Russian ban helps Valieva as it means there is no pressure on RUSADA or the ISU to fix this before the start of the season.

I expect Valieva will probably participate in some local Russian competitions for a while and then transition to Russian shows and tv as a national hero wronged by the West without competing internationally again.

I saw some training footage from the Tutberidze Camp today and it looks like Valieva’s jumping axis will need lots of work if she wants to future proof her technique.
 

Jaana

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I find it very difficult to believe that Valieva is the only one at Tutberidge camp who has been given dope. She just somehow failed to follow instructions, made a mistake and was caught. And the Tutberidge camp surely is not the only one in Russia where doping happens.
 

Bigbird

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The way I understand it, the B sample is only tested if the athlete requests that it be tested. As Valieva has acknowledged having the banned substance in her system via the 'drank from granddad's water glass' story, it seems unlikely that she'd make such a request.
I am officially speechless. It's going to take them forever to test the grandpa water glass hypothesis? She drank his water on the same day and time he was having a backwash moment? They believe they can gaslight the entire world walking around calling themselves champions? They are all glorified cheaters and that's why they should be banned.
 
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starrynight

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I find it very difficult to believe that Valieva is the only one at Tutberidge camp who has been given dope. She just somehow failed to follow instructions, made a mistake and was caught. And the Tutberidge camp surely is not the only one in Russia where doping happens.

I recall reading the same team doctor’s athletes got caught at Rio. Apparently the problem there was he didn’t factor the Rio heat and the sweating and dehydration with how fast the drugs would flush through the system.

It’s probably likely Valieva didn’t drink the required amount of water or something happened that slowed her metabolism by just enough to prevent it being fully flushed out by the test.
 

Alilou

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SkateSand

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Interesting that he doesn't even try to excuse any use of this drug for Valieva. So it had to have been an "accident" because he says he never, ever would prescribe such a drug for her.
 

MacMadame

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Interesting that he doesn't even try to excuse any use of this drug for Valieva. So it had to have been an "accident" because he says he never, ever would prescribe such a drug for her.
He also says

Did Valieva take doping?

Filipp Shvetsky:
Absolutely not, in the story with Valieva, doping is out of the question.
To which I say, why is it out of the question? Just declaring that doesn't make it so.
 

starrynight

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I would have thought Shvetsky would have been shipped off to Siberia by now for stuffing up the doping program on multiple occasions.

As an aside, on social networks I’ve seen the posters for the big show in Sochi. With Valieva being the star. Isn’t Shcherbakova the gold medalist or is it that the public are treating Valieva as the winner?
 

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