Royalty Thread #13: Zooming in on our favorite royals

[mella]

Saville is dead and has been dead for over 10 years. Therefore Charles didn't consult with him at any time recently. Why bring it up now? Probably because the Jubilee is coming up and it makes for a juicy headline.

Note: I'm not defending Charles. I think he's a twat-waffle. But it's not accurate to say he's doing this to ruin the Jubilee.

I think its off the back of a new documentary on Saville. There are two this year one by BBC one by Netflix. Apparently Prince William is upset as his mother is depicted in the BBC one.

Not sure if the letters have come to light due to a time bar expiring or an info request or what but it seems like its new information in the public arena. Altgough the attention at the time the original Saville stuff came out was very focused on his relationship with a particular hospital iirc so it may be that scrutiny is just falling to other areas now.

Or perhaps the attention has turned to the Royal relationship because of the Andrew situation.

 

[antmanb]

Then I got to the final link . Its not the worse thing he's reported as having done but as red flags go... a reminder that there were lots of signs as to what Saville was - they were likely ignored rather than not recognised.

Rumours circulated for years about Savile in much the same way as it did for other predators and nothing ever happened. I suspect enough powerful people were involved that they everyone went all out to protect themselves because to have so little fallout on anyone else despite the investigations is unbelievable. He had Police and senior people at the BBC in his pocket and nothing has happened to anyone else.

I think its off the back of a new documentary on Saville. There are two this year one by BBC one by Netflix.

Is there also a documentary on the BBC? I hadn't heard about that I thought it was the drama where Steve Coogan plays Savile? I have to say that the thought of the BBC making a drama about Savile when people from that organisation gave him access to his victims and covered it up is about biggest misstep they could make. It makes me also think twice about Steve Coogan fo9r being involved in the project.

 

[mella]

Rumours circulated for years about Savile in much the same way as it did for other predators and nothing ever happened. I suspect enough powerful people were involved that they everyone went all out to protect themselves because to have so little fallout on anyone else despite the investigations is unbelievable. He had Police and senior people at the BBC in his pocket and nothing has happened to anyone else.


Is there also a documentary on the BBC? I hadn't heard about that I thought it was the drama where Steve Coogan plays Savile? I have to say that the thought of the BBC making a drama about Savile when people from that organisation gave him access to his victims and covered it up is about biggest misstep they could make. It makes me also think twice about Steve Coogan fo9r being involved in the project.

Ah yes. Sorry, you're right the BBC one is a documentary.

I think I've wiped the worst of the Saville cover up stuff from my mind. But now I'm thinking maybe that's what triggered complaint that led to the investigation into the parliament "ring" that was disbanded made year with no finding if wrong doing? Am I mixing two things up.

 

[Jenny]

Ugh. So as part of the charm offensive/jubilee festivities, Charles and Camilla have announced a tour in Canada next month. Honestly I don't know why they're doing this, well I do, but I think it's a mistake. I'm not against royal tours as a concept, and in the past have quite enjoyed the news coverage, but now? When we are still deep in a global pandemic, while the war in Ukraine rages, while the division of classes is arguably more pronounced than any time in modern memory, while this whole Andrew mess is still unresolved, and while some Canadians at least are still smarting over what Harry and Meghan's non-official tour of Canada cost the Canadian taxpayer? And after what happened on William and Kate's tour? Now is the right time for the heir to the throne to bring greetings from mummy in celebration of her own jubilee?

Just seem so ill-timed to me, like the royal family in their efforts to celebrate the monarchy are just illustrating how increasingly irrelevant they are.

 

[overedge]

I watched the Savile documentary on Netflix last night. There are shots of actual letters/memos that Charles wrote to Savile asking for advice on various things, mostly along the lines of "you understand the people so well so I'm hoping you can help". I'm not sure if the actual letters have been seen before.

The Queen's former private secretary, Robin Janvrin, also is interviewed. He says (paraphrasing) that many in the Royal household thought that Savile was odd and were wary of the Royals becoming too closely involved with him - not that they knew specifically about any abuse, just that he was strange. Janvrin claims that Margaret Thatcher was pushing really hard for Savile to be knighted and it was because of the concerns about him in the Royal household that he didn't get knighted sooner. He was in the very last list of nominations that Thatcher sent to the Queen, and I guess someone figured it would be easier to give in rather than have to put up with criticism if he was excluded yet again.

 

[MLIS]

Ugh. So as part of the charm offensive/jubilee festivities, Charles and Camilla have announced a tour in Canada next month. Honestly I don't know why they're doing this, well I do, but I think it's a mistake. I'm not against royal tours as a concept, and in the past have quite enjoyed the news coverage, but now? When we are still deep in a global pandemic, while the war in Ukraine rages, while the division of classes is arguably more pronounced than any time in modern memory, while this whole Andrew mess is still unresolved, and while some Canadians at least are still smarting over what Harry and Meghan's non-official tour of Canada cost the Canadian taxpayer? And after what happened on William and Kate's tour? Now is the right time for the heir to the throne to bring greetings from mummy in celebration of her own jubilee?

Just seem so ill-timed to me, like the royal family in their efforts to celebrate the monarchy are just illustrating how increasingly irrelevant they are.

I rolled my eyes when I saw they were going to visit Newfoundland and Labrador, Ottawa, and one of the northern territories (I forget which one) in three days. Those places are ... not near each other. They will spend most of their time in transit, and then pop out to wave at a few people at the airport? Seems like a lot of time and money and travel, and potential to piss people off, for very small possible returns.

 

[overedge]

Ah yes. Sorry, you're right the BBC one is a documentary.

I think I've wiped the worst of the Saville cover up stuff from my mind. But now I'm thinking maybe that's what triggered complaint that led to the investigation into the parliament "ring" that was disbanded made year with no finding if wrong doing? Am I mixing two things up.

Mella, it sounded from the Netflix show like the Savile investigation was separate from the Parliament investigation. Although there was a mention in the show that grooming and organized networks of abuse were getting more attention in the media around the time that Savile's victims started speaking up, most of them anonymously and through things like online discussion forums.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

I rolled my eyes when I saw they were going to visit Newfoundland and Labrador, Ottawa, and one of the northern territories (I forget which one) in three days. Those places are ... not near each other. They will spend most of their time in transit, and then pop out to wave at a few people at the airport? Seems like a lot of time and money and travel, and potential to piss people off, for very small possible returns.

Criticizing Saint William and Holy Kate? What an ungrateful colonial you are.

 

[Lemonade20]

Canada is a huge country, so it's surprising they decide to have a tour and not even to the best parts of it.

 

[DFJ]

Canada is a huge country, so it's surprising they decide to have a tour and not even to the best parts of it.

Newfoundland and Labrador are gorgeous. So are the northern territories. Not that I particularly care where they go.

 

[Vagabond]

Canada is a huge country, so it's surprising they decide to have a tour and not even to the best parts of it.

Officium ante voluptatem.

 

[kittyjake5]

Happy 96th Birthday to Queen Elizabeth!

 

[Wyliefan]

Princess Charlotte's birthday pictures: https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/status/1520881435858673665

She really is adorable. (I'd have pulled her hair back, but that's just me. I almost always think pulled-back hair looks nicer.)

 

[canbelto]

She looks a lot like the Queen.

 

[clairecloutier]

I feel like Charlotte is also starting to look a little bit more like William. Although her hair color is reminiscent of Kate's.

She just seems like she has the biggest personality! It will be fun to see/hear more of her as she grows up.

 

[MLIS]

Charlotte is still to me the spitting image of Lady Sarah Chatto, the queen's niece (Princess Margaret's daughter). She sure seems to have a lot of Windsor in her, anyway. Such a cutie!

 

[MsZem]

Charlotte is still to me the spitting image of Lady Sarah Chatto, the queen's niece (Princess Margaret's daughter). She sure seems to have a lot of Windsor in her, anyway. Such a cutie!

Yes, that's the strongest resemblance I can see as well. Charlotte is definitely the most Windsor of the siblings, though I can see some Carole Middleton there, too.

I hope she still likes spiders

More portraits: check out the Swedish royals.

Swedish Royals Look Like Disney Princesses Come to Life in New Portraits!

Princess Victoria, Princess Estelle and other members of the Swedish royal family posed for brand new portraits, used for the family's official website.

people.com

I think Victoria is wearing an H&M dress. Though not the kind you'd just find in stores

Estelle is now ten and looks so grown up!

 

[MLIS]

I think Victoria is wearing an H&M dress. Though not the kind you'd just find in stores

Estelle is now ten and looks so grown up!

Yes, I think Victoria first wore that dress to her brother's wedding. It is H&M (but custom!).

There were pictures of the Swedish royals this weekend for the King's birthday, and Estelle now has glasses! So cute! My own 8 year old recently had to get her first glasses and these are very similar, so she's in good company!
https://twitter.com/vaninaswchindt/status/1520904135037624322?s=20&t=D6uePuvkH9GX2M1tljddNA

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I missed Prince Louis' birthday photos from last week - he looks full of beans too! Bet there's never a quiet moment in that house.

 

[taf2002]

More portraits: check out the Swedish royals.

Swedish Royals Look Like Disney Princesses Come to Life in New Portraits!

Princess Victoria, Princess Estelle and other members of the Swedish royal family posed for brand new portraits, used for the family's official website.

people.com

I think Victoria is wearing an H&M dress. Though not the kind you'd just find in stores

Estelle is now ten and looks so grown up!

Gorgeous family!

 

[ballettmaus]

More portraits: check out the Swedish royals.

Swedish Royals Look Like Disney Princesses Come to Life in New Portraits!

Princess Victoria, Princess Estelle and other members of the Swedish royal family posed for brand new portraits, used for the family's official website.

people.com

I think Victoria is wearing an H&M dress. Though not the kind you'd just find in stores

I wish the pictures were smaller so you could see them as a whole without having to scroll.

Sometimes, when I see pictures with the King, Victoria and Estelle, I wonder what it's like for Estelle. She looks to be enjoying herself when she's part of events (I remember a visit to a museum or something where she looked to be having fun) but I would think taking official pictures is a different matter.

And Oscar isn't frowning (though he's got this "fine, I'll smile if I have to" expression on his face )

 

[Deleted member 221]

Sad but not surprised to see the Queen (Elizabeth II) pull out of the Queen's Speech , which was delivered by Prince Charles instead. I think it's hard to keep denying we're at a turning point. I know she said she'd never abdicate, but I wondering if she may change her mind after we celebrate her Golden Jubilee in a few weeks.

 

[mattiecat13]

Agree, @Louis. Sad for the Queen but it's time for her to "retire" and let Charles take over. All this "will she or won't she" is not doing the monarchy and Charles any favors.

 

[MacMadame]

Has she said why she won't abdicate? Or is not abdicating the norm for UK monarchy?

 

[mella]

I think she could pass ceremonial duties to Charles without abdicating. What I actually find very sad is the (rumoured) oposition/reluctance to being seen in a wheelchair. This is apparently rooted in the Queen still being "haunted" by Margaret attending some event in a wheelchair.

There are certainly some duties that it would be very difficult to carry out when wheelchair bound (i imagine state opening of Parliament might be one as accessibility is likely rubbish) but I do think that it would actually be very powerful if someone as high profile as the Queen were to see carrying out duties in a wheelchair as something that is part of life for a good proportion of the population rather than as something to be haunted by.

I'm not saying she "should" do it. These choices are v personal and I'm sure her health issues st 96yo are complex and I'm not saying g she should be seen in a wheelchair for the sake of it. But some of the narrative around the issue is disappointing to say the least and yet more evidence of how out of touch the institution is regarding the reality of life for many people not just people of her age.

 

[mella]

Has she said why she won't abdicate? Or is not abdicating the norm for UK monarchy?

She said long ago she would not abdicate but I'm not aware of any recent reiterations of the position. It's well publicised that she sees it as a life long commitment.

But there are tools for her to pass her duties to others as today and as for many honours ceremonies since pre covid. I dont really understand why its so last minute on each occasion to confirm. Although garden party season starts shortly and someone I know who is attending has been given info on who will deputise perhaps because they have made official thar she will not attend.

 

[Lemonade20]

She said long ago she would not abdicate but I'm not aware of any recent reiterations of the position. It's well publicised that she sees it as a life long commitment.

But there are tools for her to pass her duties to others as today and as for many honours ceremonies since pre covid. I dont really understand why its so last minute on each occasion to confirm. Although garden party season starts shortly and someone I know who is attending has been given info on who will deputise perhaps because they have made official thar she will not attend.

Agreed. She doesn't want to quit just yet, but it is worrisome as her health is declining. I hope she will make an appearance at her Jubilee.

 

[MLIS]

She has always sworn that her whole life, “whether it be long or short,” would be in service to the crown. The English monarchy does not have a tradition of abdicating or “retiring” (as several European monarchs have done over the last few years), they’re generally there until they die (or are deposed, although that happens less frequently nowadays!). The last abdication, the Queen’s uncle, was a huge scandal and constitutional crisis, and she and her mother have always believed that the stress of taking on the job is what killed her father so young. Now, the situation today is quite different with an heir who has always known he was meant to be king and prepared for decades, and there would be no scandal, but she made a vow and has always intended to stick to it. I expect as long as she is of sound mind she will continue.

 

[taf2002]

Charles delivering the Queen's speech (talking about cost of living) while on a golden throne & covered with jewels was pretty tone deaf.

 

[attyfan]

Charles delivering the Queen's speech (talking about cost of living) while on a golden throne & covered with jewels was pretty tone deaf.

It's always been my understanding that the monarch's speech would be written by her ministers. Not sure how much could be expected from the current crop:

King's Speech: What is it and why is it important?

Charles delivered the King's Speech as part of the State Opening of Parliament on 7 November 2023.

www.bbc.com