Penalties from program interruption

[coppertop1]

So, according to the rules, skaters have thirty seconds to fix an equipment problem, with a point deduction for every ten seconds over, and are disqualified after thirty.

My question is what would happen in a case like Kristy Sargeant and Kris Wirtz at this 1996 Canadians, when a fire alarm went off? It's not the skater's fault and it may take longer than thirty seconds then shut off the alarm. Would there be a penalty, and if so, what?

 

[kittysk8ts]

So, according to the rules, skaters have thirty seconds to fix an equipment problem, with a point deduction for every ten seconds over, and are disqualified after thirty.

My question is what would happen in a case like Kristy Sargeant and Kris Wirtz at this 1996 Canadians, when a fire alarm went off? It's not the skater's fault and it may take longer than thirty seconds then shut off the alarm. Would there be a penalty, and if so, what?

No penalty. They would continue from where they stopped. Did you see Stepanova/Bukins SD in Finland this past season? Pigeons and debris. Similar situation.

https://youtu.be/eyrbxkulDwk

 

[gkelly]

Rules about interruptions have changed several times since the 1990s (and probably before).

For the current rules, see the current ISU rulebook, rule 515.

 

[coppertop1]

No penalty. They would continue from where they stopped. Did you see Stepanova/Bukins SD in Finland this past season? Pigeons and debris. Similar situation.

Thanks for the clarification. Debris is one thing but pigeons?! It must be so disruptive force skaters to have the pick up the program. I'm sure that's where muscle memory comes into play.

Rules about interruptions have changed several times since the 1990s (and probably before).

For the current rules, see the current ISU rulebook, rule 515.

Yes. Skaters were allowed to restart a program. Who can forget Tonya Harding in Lilehammer and the infamous broken skate lace?

 

[tony]

Yes. Skaters were allowed to restart a program. Who can forget Tonya Harding in Lilehammer and the infamous broken skate lace?

Harding did it a few times and Abitbol/Bernadis did it at least twice- notably in the GPF in 2000 where, IIRC, they tried a throw 3A and she wiped out. They were able to restart, they skated clean or relatively clean, and were put into the gold-medal ‘Super Final’.

I think the rules were changed pretty shortly after that, but I could be wrong.

 

[sharsk8s]

Yes, those 90's early 2000's instances led to the rule change. I see how if there was not a deduction skaters could use it to their advantage and stop in the middle of the program but it was unfortunate in a case such as p/c at the oly where it was a genuine accident and they felt they would loose more points due to the deduction. If there was none the whole debacle could have been avoided (especially since her dress came undone in the first 5 seconds of the program)

 

[Erin]

Yes, those 90's early 2000's instances led to the rule change. I see how if there was not a deduction skaters could use it to their advantage and stop in the middle of the program but it was unfortunate in a case such as p/c at the oly where it was a genuine accident and they felt they would loose more points due to the deduction. If there was none the whole debacle could have been avoided (especially since her dress came undone in the first 5 seconds of the program)

That may have led to one of the rule changes, but the pendulum has swung back and forth a few times. There was no penalty at all in 2013 and the two incidents that caused the current rules to be put in place were the skates by P&C themselves at Junior Worlds that year and V&M at 4CC, also in 2013. I find that rather amusing in light of what followed.

 

[sharsk8s]

That may have led to one of the rule changes, but the pendulum has swung back and forth a few times. There was no penalty at all in 2013 and the two incidents that caused the current rules to be put in place were the skates by P&C themselves at Junior Worlds that year and V&M at 4CC, also in 2013. I find that rather amusing in light of what followed.

I am surprised it wasn't put in place earlier when there were multiple instances where it seemed people were using it to their advantage. In both p/c's and v/m's cases in 2013 they had genuine reasons to stop. I know Gabi severely injured her ankle the morning of the competition and was competing with it taped and didn't Tessa have a history of issues with her legs? Maybe it was both of them happening in the same year at major events which ultimately caused the rule change.

 

[Erin]

Maybe it was both of them happening in the same year at major events which ultimately caused the rule change.

Yes, that was the case. Cinquata was quoted as saying that it wasn’t the skaters’ fault as they were only doing what the rules allowed but that the rules needed to be changed. In both cases, there were clearly legitimate injuries, but many fans were upset that the lengthy break appeared to give the skaters an edge in finishing the program without any corresponding cost to the skaters.

 

[sharsk8s]

It's such a tough situation since I understand the need for a penalty but in some cases I feel like it does more harm than good. Just thinking about how much drama could have been avoided if 10 seconds into the program p/c stopped and fixed the dress but I completely understand why they didn't under the current deduction system.

 

[coppertop1]

It's such a tough situation since I understand the need for a penalty but in some cases I feel like it does more harm than good. Just thinking about how much drama could have been avoided if 10 seconds into the program p/c stopped and fixed the dress but I completely understand why they didn't under the current deduction system.

Similarly, Liam Firus had a wardrobe malfunction at the 2017 and 2018 Canadians, on the same spin. In 2017, his suspenders broke. He just snapped them back on and kept going. In 2018, his bootstrap broke when he caught it while doing his combination spin. In both cases, he just fixed it on the spot but then was rushing the catch up the his music and it set him back.

 

[Vagabond]

My question is what would happen in a case like Kristy Sargeant and Kris Wirtz at this 1996 Canadians, when a fire alarm went off? It's not the skater's fault and it may take longer than thirty seconds then shut off the alarm.

What would Laurent Tobel do
If a fire alarm went off right now?
He'd shrug it off and skate right through
That's what Laurent Tobel would do.
​

https://youtu.be/pIaItI5-afM?t=25

The alarm goes off at about 1:58.
He even did his choreography to the tempo of the alarm.

 

[coppertop1]

What would Laurent Tobel do
If a fire alarm went off right now?
He'd shrug it off and skate right through
That's what Laurent Tobel would do.
​

https://youtu.be/pIaItI5-afM?t=25

The alarm goes off at about 1:58.
He even did his choreography to the tempo of the alarm.

I remember that!

 

[SmallFairy]

Both Carolina Kostner and Alexander Majorov has a nose bleed mid-program. They both kept on skating. It was both epic and horrid at the same time. I especially remember Majorov holding his nose several times during the program. While he was spinning, the blood kept coming...

 

[SmallFairy]

And when Zhang/Zhang took that horrid fall...they had a loooooong break, and then were allowed to continue.

I don’t remember all the rule changes during the years, but didn’t a Japanese man had lace trouble at Worlds or something one year (Daisuke or Oda?) and his crew were stressing like crazy to fix it before some time limit.

At Olympics in Lillehammer, Margus Hernits skate broke down, I remember someone holding up a pile of rusty screws to the camera. But I believe he withdrew, as he didn’t have another pair.

The Tonya Harding case...didn’t Britta Lindgren actually went beyond the rules by letting Tonya try again later in the group? I vaguely remember hearing something about it. What was the rules at that time?

 

[Japanfan]

And when Zhang/Zhang took that horrid fall...they had a loooooong break, and then were allowed to continue.

IIRC, they were within the time allowed for stopping and restarting.

I don't think it was that much time, but the fall was so horrible and shocking that things seemed to move a bit in slow motion afterwards.

 

[coppertop1]

I don’t remember all the rule changes during the years, but didn’t a Japanese man had lace trouble at Worlds or something one year (Daisuke or Oda?) and his crew were stressing like crazy to fix it before some time limit.

It was Oda. His lace broke during his free skate, it was during the 2010 Olympics. Daisuke's blade came loose at the 2011 Worlds. Mao Asada's lace broke at the 2005 Junior Worlds during her SP. It was at the very start of her program and she had it fixed very quickly.


I looked up Hernits, he was allowed to skate later in the flight once the issue was fixed. Petrenko had to go on the ice earlier, like with Josee Chouinard when Harding's lace broke. 1994 was a really weird Olympics.

Margus Hernits's skate breaks during his SP.

 

[coppertop1]

Yuhana Yokoi had an issue with her music last season, it took eight minutes to fix it and she continued on without missing a beat.

Yuhana Yokoi 2018 Yerevan Cup

 

[Sylvia]

Yuhana Yokoi had an issue with her music last season, it took eight minutes to fix it

But she didn't get penalized for it.

Audrey Shin (USA) had a equipment issue/problem with her skate in her JGP short program in Chelyabinsk this past weekend and incurred a five point deduction for the interruption.

 

[coppertop1]

But she didn't get penalized for it.

Audrey Shin (USA) had a equipment issue/problem with her skate in her JGP short program in Chelyabinsk this past weekend and incurred a five point deduction for the interruption.

The music failure was beyond her control. With a skater's equipment it's believed to be their responsibility.m

 

[jiejie]

2011 Four Continents, Pairs Short, USA's Amanda Evora/Mark Ladwig. His boot heel broke in two, had to stop skating. Referee blew the whistle and they left the ice. Canadian Rudi Swiegers saw what happened and gave Mark his own boot so he and Amanda could get back out and pick up where they had to stop. Back then, they had 3 minutes before penalties started and actually got the switch accomplished in that time! I'm not sure how that would be penalized today, but it was pretty amazing to watch and Rudi was the hero of the season.

 

[vesperholly]

I looked up Hernits, he was allowed to skate later in the flight once the issue was fixed. Petrenko had to go on the ice earlier, like with Josee Chouinard when Harding's lace broke. 1994 was a really weird Olympics.

Margus Hernits's skate breaks during his SP.

After not making the FS in 94, he went on to have some lovely performances later in his career and finished 20th in Nagano.

1998 Olympic SP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6FWjr914g

1999 Worlds FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd-NMwzy-wQ

Man, the quality skating we missed when we couldn't get streams of the entire competition!