Arthur Dmitriev sums up the season

[PRlady]

I’ve never been in any competitive sport. But DC attracts a lot of the best and brightest young people to work here, a combination of ambition and interest/dedication to politics or a cause.

I do see some entitlement among those who worked hard, graduated with honors from top colleges, and checked the boxes with the right internships. Everyone wants to know what the road up the ladder is, sometimes there’s a lot less interest in doing the scut work at the bottom.

 

[Rock2]

@Rock2
It went from working hard and accepting that maybe what you achieved from that work wasn't good enough (to pass a test, to get the marks you wanted in a competition, etc.) - and knowing that you had to do things differently if that goal was still important to you - to 'I worked hard so I should have gotten that'.

LOL...TOTALLY!
About 4 years I wrote a blog post suggesting we Gen Xers back off from crapping all over millennials because we're not so perfect either.

I point specifically to the line "I work hard.....and therefore I (statement of entitlement)" to be the classic Gen X statement of entitlement that is to me way more pervasive than any comparable statement I have heard from a millennial. We work that line pretty hard.

 

[layman]

Thanks a lot for the translation! Interesting interview with one of my favourite pairs skater.

I am quite shocked that Artur Dmitriev is so honest! Where as others are quite muted in their criticism (Even Tarasova tiptoed), he goes all in....

He says that Dudakov (not Eteri) is responsible for the success of the Eteri school and says that Dudakov has perfected a system for getting results from girl athletes...a system that does not work with boys (or women).

He talks about the extreme methods used to keep the skaters under a certain weight and/or to post-pone puberty such as the example he sites of Zagitova and Medvedeva (in the run up to the 2018 Olympics) being asked to run 40 minutes before and after the morning and evening practices.

He (subtly) criticizes the decision by the Eteri School to keep the press out of the rink by saying its their right to do so, but what are they hiding?

He documents a culture of athlete abuse citing the examples of Tarasov and Zhuk and says that the Eteri school is not the worst nor are their practices new.

He talks about the use of extreme pre-rotation to force quads.

He's brutally honest about his son's struggles.

The overall impression that Artur Dmitriev has left me with is pessimism about the future of the sport.

 

[casken]

LOL...TOTALLY!
About 4 years I wrote a blog post suggesting we Gen Xers back off from crapping all over millennials because we're not so perfect either.

I point specifically to the line "I work hard.....and therefore I (statement of entitlement)" to be the classic Gen X statement of entitlement that is to me way more pervasive than any comparable statement I have heard from a millennial. We work that line pretty hard.

The "Hard work = success" was handed down to us from boomers. Everything gets prepackaged and repurposed for the next generation.

 

[MacMadame]

The "Hard work = success" was handed down to us from boomers. Everything gets prepackaged and repurposed for the next generation.

I knew somehow it was all our fault! Except this is BS. Hard work == success is part of the fabric of America and we Boomers heard it constantly as we were growing up as well.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

The "Hard work = success" was handed down to us from boomers. Everything gets prepackaged and repurposed for the next generation.

I knew somehow it was all our fault! Except this is BS. Hard work == success is part of the fabric of America and we Boomers heard it constantly as we were growing up as well.

And our parents heard it from their parents and back and back - @MacMadame you said far better than I would have been able to articulate.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Success is an iceberg....

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4411009/Imported_Blog_Media/Iceberg-illustration-v0_3-01.jpg

 

[gkelly]

Success is an iceberg....

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4411009/Imported_Blog_Media/Iceberg-illustration-v0_3-01.jpg

Yes, all those things.

And sometimes other things one has no control over. E.g., luck.

 

[MacMadame]

Yes, all those things.

And sometimes other things one has no control over. E.g., luck.

The fact that luck wasn't included shows how embedded the idea that success is a result of hard work is embedded in our psyche IMO.

 

[Lizziebeth]

The fact that luck wasn't included shows how embedded the idea that success is a result of hard work is embedded in our psyche IMO.

And in my humble opinion, good things can follow when you happen to be lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. I am very appreciative that it happened to me but it was up to me to to make the most of a good opportunity. I never forget how fortunate I was that someone gave a nobody like me a chance.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Yes, all those things.

And sometimes other things one has no control over. E.g., luck.

luck is so very subjective... "born in Century XX vs. born in Century YY" can be called "luck".... Trixie Shuba? luck with abilities in 8-figures given the current rules? or that her parents bought a TV-set which enable her to find out there is figure skating? or the fact that once on ice she realized that 8-figures is her strong point and practiced it to the level which allowed her to win?

Shuba, starting the age of 12-13 was a very mature, pragmatic, reasonable, sensible young lady, she even studied accounting/bookkeeping to help her family's finances and business, when she was 13!!! Plus given other details of her life, where she clearly demonstrated that she will evaluate the rules, the surroundings, the current conditions and restriction, and will find the MAXIMUM BENEFICIAL path/solution/choice. That's not luck - that's use of your brain and an ability to "solve a formula with minimal givens and/or the givens with negatives".

I knew a man, a head of the family who lived into his 90's, a successful man (with almost every member of his immediate and extended family also successful); he accomplished a lot strictly based on his talents/brains/inventions/research. And as to "luck"? Well........ if one can call it "luck"...

This man has a long story - about success without much luck....... read at your own risk... it is long

He was a Jew, living in the Czarist time in Russia, he had to deal with 2% quotas for jews being allowed into russian schools and universities (as a boy of 7, knowing this, he studied the text books of 1-2-3 grades to answer "trick question" (the russians had easy entry exam, and jews unofficially had the harder tests/questions to keep them out, and that actually carried over into Soviet times all the way into perestroika)

Then his father died when he was 14, he had 9 bros/sister, he worked (on his own initiative) and went to Russian school school (gymnazia) and later in lyzeum (college equivalent), and had to have all his tests and homeworks perfect and to avoid conflicts so that there is no cause to expel him.

Then WWI, the famines, then Revolution, then famines, then NKV (earlier years KGB) and cleansing, continued anti semitism in all sectors and levels, then WWII and Leningrad Siege, then his wife's father and cousins killed in Kiev in Babiy Yar, then mandatory evacuation of the whole family to the military equipment producing factory in a remote area very much like "gulag" labor camp, then end of WWII and return to Leningrad (St. Pete) only to finding out that the family's apartment was given away to another family (leaning that his family was homeless and has nothing and not even being let into the door of the place to pick up the belongings. that family who occupied the apartment had a member working "in the apparatus of USSR" and any rules of law or decency was not applicable to them).

Then the struggles to find a place to live and a job in Moscow, then Stalin's purges, then Khruchev's "time of appeasement" which came with some crazy laws, then the 70's stagnation, then several refusals by government to immigrate to Israel, then finally a permission for him and wife to immigrate to USA (where his daughter and granddaughter, and later father were already living, then both him and wife finding professional jobs while in their 60's, him being laid of 4 times in 13 years, and still finding professional jobs all into his 70's.... He spoke/was able to communicate in russian, english, latin, greek, german, french, ladino, yiddish, polish, ukrainian, and few more that was enough to travel and even to speak professionally. He knew politics and culture of every major country and not so major... Regardless of several periods of starvation, physical abuse by authorities and just people in russia (pushing out of a seat on a bus - when russian passengers are standing then jews should not be sitting), 2 WW wars (I and II), loosing family members in was, in purges, from hunger, by germans, by KGB, etc, being homeless with wife and child, he not only managed to live but to live till he was 90...

During Czarist times in schools/college he was the "Best Student in the Class", graduated with many honors, in-spite of being a Jew. After the revolution because of his brains and education, he was sent to a Research facility in Leningrad, then after the was once settling in Moscow he soon became Chief Director of Research and Development at the Moscow Central Energy (radiation and heat transfer) Plant. His portrait still hangs in the Honor Raw, in the hall-way of the plant, with ribbons and a list of all the inventions, and yet he was a jew, who left USSR in late 70's ... but his portrait is still there, and younger employees still remember his..... He had no "luck" in any of this.... it was all his brain, intellect, Anglo-Saxon work ethics (he read a lot about them), and education he made sure he gets...

He spent his last decade with members of his family in a beautiful 2-story house, in Berkeley Hills, designed and built by the disciples of FLW (frank lloyd wright), and assisted into his last days by private nurses and! family. That man was rarely unhappy...... it was amazing...

He had no luck...... most of his life he had anti-luck, regardless.... he "always made it" in the worst condition surrounding him... under 4 government systems in Russia, during 2 world wars, being a minority, changing countries....... A person can always make his own luck....unless some people think that a fact of being born is luck... having this or that color hair is "luck" and so on ...

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

Tinami, might I assume correctly that this person was your grandfather?

 

[Tinami Amori]

Tinami, might I assume correctly that this person was your grandfather?

There are many stories like this, with same or similar circumstances, in many immigrant families, from various countries.

I can tell you another one... it is about a woman (a girl back then) from Vietnam, who was sexually abused by family member when she was a young teen, then sold to an American family (in military) to babysit their children and to clean, then abused by the husband/employer of the family, then kicked out on the street by the wife when she found out, then finding ways to come to USA without a penny, then being homeless and sleeping in the kitchen of one of the Asian cultural centres, then working in a beauty salon and often cheated out of tips and even salary by other employees and employers... She now owns a CHAIN of upscale luxury beauty salons in one of the most expensive areas in California and lives herself in a 6 million USD villa with 2 pools and a tennis court......

MY conclusion is life up to today: A lot is not a matter of LUCK, but a matter of WILL.

 

[bladesofgorey]

There are many stories like this, with same or similar circumstances, in many immigrant families, from various countries.

I can tell you another one... it is about a woman (a girl back then) from Vietnam, who was sexually abused by family member when she was a young teen, then sold to an American family (in military) to babysit their children and to clean, then abused by the husband/employer of the family, then kicked out on the street by the wife when she found out, then finding ways to come to USA without a penny, then being homeless and sleeping in the kitchen of one of the Asian cultural centres, then working in a beauty salon and often cheated out of tips and even salary by other employees and employers... She now owns a CHAIN of upscale luxury beauty salons in one of the most expensive areas in California and lives herself in a 6 million USD villa with 2 pools and a tennis court......

MY conclusion is life up to today: A lot is not a matter of LUCK, but a matter of WILL.

I guess being sexually abused, physically abused, and exploited for years before her fortunes changed was also her fault (lack of will) and not bad luck if I am following the logic correctly

 

[mjb52]

If you read down a bit in this interview with Daniil Gleikhengauz in the last two questions, you can see where he talks about the relationship that Eteri's group has with their students: https://fs-gossips.com/daniil-gleic...remembered-by-the-performance-of-the-athlete/ - thinking back to and referencing it with a comment in one of Eteri's interviews, it seems like when they select students they look for students with some kind of special inner drive and then they try to facilitate and shape it. Maybe part of the secret to their success is trying to create that match between their philosophy and the students they pick. Thinking of Trusova as an example - she wants to excel, to accomplish things, that comes from within.

 

[Japanfan]

This man has a long story - about success without much luck....... read at your own risk... it is long

He had no luck...... most of his life he had anti-luck, regardless.... he "always made it" in the worst condition surrounding him... under 4 government systems in Russia, during 2 world wars, being a minority, changing countries....... A person can always make his own luck....unless some people think that a fact of being born is luck... having this or that color hair is "luck" and so on ...

I can tell you another one... it is about a woman (a girl back then) from Vietnam

A lot is not a matter of LUCK, but a matter of WILL.

Tinami, there are many such stories about remarkable people succeeding despite the challenges posed by adverse, untenable circumstances. It's part of the American mythos - the foreigner who arrives from abroad with no money and holes in his pockets, and goes on to make a fortune.

But there are many more stories about people not succeeding due to the challenges posed by adverse, untenable circumstances. Ghetto children who enter the detention system as teens. Girls who live in countries oppressive to woman who are married off as child brides and have their first child/children before the age of 18 (yup, there goes all your dreams). Marginalized, disadvantaged people who remain that way their whole lives, unable to rise above their life conditions/circumstances.


I agree with you that will is very important (e.g. determination and a willingness to work hard).

But luck often determines the context in which 'will' functions. Take the girl in rural sub-Subharan Africa who is destined to be a child bride. She likely has no education, especially given that it is often not seen as of value for girls.

What would you have her do with her 'will'? Walk many miles barefoot to the nearest town so she can beg for food and beg to get into a school? Maybe that's possible, but consider that she might choose not to make the journey because rape and death are the likely outcomes.

In such a situation, will goes to surviving day to day. She will have to will herself to care for children she can't afford to feed, maybe will herself to have intercourse with an abusive man she doesn't have the right to leave, will herself to walk for several miles a day and carry a heavy jug of water on her head, while completely exhausted.

To give another example, a person who is sick or disabled may need to use 'will' just to get through the day, especially if the person is in pain.

'Will' exists within a context, as does 'luck'. For the girl in Africa, will might be the determination for her family to choose a man she likes for her marriage. Luck might be having a father/family who care for her welfare, protect her, and won't marry her to a partner who is unsuitable or may be abusive.

 

[VGThuy]

When it comes to luck vs. will; I always quote the musical Gypsy: “I coulda been better than any of you! But I was born too soon and started to late that’s why!” And I always like to respond with “Oh, weren’t we all?”

Now to be more serious, let’s face it, most people’s successes are based on will and drive, no doubt. However, opportunity and how one starts and the resources they have AND the way others treat them and perceive them and institutional factors that either help them or hurt them play a huge part. I’m convinced MOST successful people aren’t the ones who persevered through extreme or even great hardship. They also want to keep certain people down and make it harder for others in a way it was never hard for them. Then their kids benefit and act like they worked for it from the beginning and people treat them like they’re worthy, etc. I think that says a lot.

 

[sadya]

People often say that as long as you keep trying and work hard, you will eventually make it in something you want. Yes, that is true. Hard work and not giving up are important, but they aren't the only factors. It's ridicilous when people say that that is all you need. They don't mention that luck does play a part. There are so many more people than the ones who achieve what they want, who also work hard and don't give up yet they never achieve what they're trying to. Each situation is different.

How about this example: females in western countries who have a different background, can have strict families who don't allow them many life choices. Such as a female who is forced in a marriage, she both doesn't like the groom nor does she like being married off so young. Yet this is what her parents do to her and nobody in the family thinks this is a problem. The marriage is horrible, husband isn't a nice person at all. But nobody allows her to divorce, her parents strictly forbid it. Nobody in the family supports her bid to divorce. All this is happening in the west in a European country. The female has these options:

• try to make the best she can of that situation, since begging and crying to be allowed to divorce him isn't working
• she could somehow hope to become a widow, but who knows if she would be so lucky to have him out of her life this way (and please as soon as possible)
• she could run away
• kill herself, her religion doesn't allow that and she isn't even sure if she would dare to take such a step, besides, she is already feeling like she doesn't live anymore anyway, it's like she is dead already, as if she in fact died the day she was married off

The option of running away would seem the best thing to do. However, that is not an easy choice to make. In her family they have this silly thing called 'khandaan ki izzat', family honour. She was never allowed to spend even 1 night somewhere without at least a parent, a brother or a close Aunty/Uncle present (yes, this meant she was never allowed to join school trips if that meant staying somewhere else for the night). If she would run away, she would spend time somewhere without a family member. That would destroy her reputation (oh, in her strict family many things could destroy a reputation, this was just 1 of them!).

This huge step of running away from the husband, and with that in fact also running away from the rest of the family will mean she won't have contact with any family member anymore. Perhaps for the rest of her life. Depending on what kind of family or parents she has, they might threaten her. And even if they wouldn't do that, she would still lose her family and her social circle. Her running away will become a scandal in her family and amongst the family friends. She will be all alone with perhaps only her children. She might have some friends of her own and that's it.

So, is the female better who stays in that horrible marriage? Yes, she keeps her family, her family friends, her social circle, but she is very unhappy. Is it her own fault for not leaving him?

Or is the female better who does run away from her family? She loses everything, everyone blames her, they threaten her. The western people don't believe her when she tells them what her family is doing to her. They say "these things don't happen here in the west, we don't believe you, besides, your parents seem nice". So they give her many many problems too. But at least at home she is very happy, there is no abusive husband anymore, she can relax at home now. She learns to live with being mistreated by her family members (who keep finding her where ever she goes) and their social circle. She also learns to live with being mistreated by western people for their own reasons of not believing her thus making up strange stories about her. Even though she herself is both western and also part of the country her parents came from, she doesn't feel like she really does belong to any of these societies anymore.

This is not a fair choice to make. There is no right or wrong decision. So, when her life dreams don't come true, do we blame her? There are so many different situations where people study and work hard and really make an effort to achieve something, but they just don't make it. And then to have to hear that they didn't try enough, that is just unfair. Life is more complicated than that.

 

[sadya]

Going back to skating: Joshua Farris had to halt his skating career for this health. So is it his own fault for not achieving what he wanted? Didn't he work hard enough? Same goes for Nicole Watt. There are so many skaters who did work hard and they did really try. They just had the bad luck of injury or illness.

Irina Slutskaya willed herself back to competition and won, after doctors told her she should stop skating, so yes, not giving up and keep trying does help, but the situation of someone like Watt was complete different. She was out of competition longer and still tried to make a comeback. It didn't work out for her. It did work out for Slutskaya who competed for a number of years after her own comeback. Are people going to say that Watt didn't try as much or work as hard as Slutskaya? They were going through something different with their illnesses and skating careers. Life is complicated like that.

 

[hanca]

People often say that as long as you keep trying and work hard, you will eventually make it in something you want. Yes, that is true. Hard work and not giving up are important, but they aren't the only factors. It's ridicilous when people say that that is all you need. They don't mention that luck does play a part. There are so many more people than the ones who achieve what they want, who also work hard and don't give up yet they never achieve what they're trying to. Each situation is different.

How about this example: females in western countries who have a different background, can have strict families who don't allow them many life choices. Such as a female who is forced in a marriage, she both doesn't like the groom nor does she like being married off so young. Yet this is what her parents do to her and nobody in the family thinks this is a problem. The marriage is horrible, husband isn't a nice person at all. But nobody allows her to divorce, her parents strictly forbid it. Nobody in the family supports her bid to divorce. All this is happening in the west in a European country. The female has these options:

• try to make the best she can of that situation, since begging and crying to be allowed to divorce him isn't working
• she could somehow hope to become a widow, but who knows if she would be so lucky to have him out of her life this way (and please as soon as possible)
• she could run away
• kill herself, her religion doesn't allow that and she isn't even sure if she would dare to take such a step, besides, she is already feeling like she doesn't live anymore anyway, it's like she is dead already, as if she in fact died the day she was married off

The option of running away would seem the best thing to do. However, that is not an easy choice to make. In her family they have this silly thing called 'khandaan ki izzat', family honour. She was never allowed to spend even 1 night somewhere without at least a parent, a brother or a close Aunty/Uncle present (yes, this meant she was never allowed to join school trips if that meant staying somewhere else for the night). If she would run away, she would spend time somewhere without a family member. That would destroy her reputation (oh, in her strict family many things could destroy a reputation, this was just 1 of them!).

This huge step of running away from the husband, and with that in fact also running away from the rest of the family will mean she won't have contact with any family member anymore. Perhaps for the rest of her life. Depending on what kind of family or parents she has, they might threaten her. And even if they wouldn't do that, she would still lose her family and her social circle. Her running away will become a scandal in her family and amongst the family friends. She will be all alone with perhaps only her children. She might have some friends of her own and that's it.

So, is the female better who stays in that horrible marriage? Yes, she keeps her family, her family friends, her social circle, but she is very unhappy. Is it her own fault for not leaving him?

Or is the female better who does run away from her family? She loses everything, everyone blames her, they threaten her. The western people don't believe her when she tells them what her family is doing to her. They say "these things don't happen here in the west, we don't believe you, besides, your parents seem nice". So they give her many many problems too. But at least at home she is very happy, there is no abusive husband anymore, she can relax at home now. She learns to live with being mistreated by her family members (who keep finding her where ever she goes) and their social circle. She also learns to live with being mistreated by western people for their own reasons of not believing her thus making up strange stories about her. Even though she herself is both western and also part of the country her parents came from, she doesn't feel like she really does belong to any of these societies anymore.

This is not a fair choice to make. There is no right or wrong decision. So, when her life dreams don't come true, do we blame her? There are so many different situations where people study and work hard and really make an effort to achieve something, but they just don't make it. And then to have to hear that they didn't try enough, that is just unfair. Life is more complicated than that.

It is very well explained in the book Bounce (written by Matthew Syed). To become successful, one needs to have the will and work hard, but it is not the whole story. While people like listening to the fairy tales and hearing how hard work lead to success, in most cases the person who succeeded had hidden advantages he doesn’t mention when telling the fairy tale.

 

[MacMadame]

Also speaking of figure skating, hard work can take you pretty far but all skaters have an upper limit that is dictated by their talent.

 

[Japanfan]

Also speaking of figure skating, hard work can take you pretty far but all skaters have an upper limit that is dictated by their talent.

And to reach that upper limit, they often need good fortune or luck because FS is such an expensive sport.

 

[gkelly]

And the very top prizes in skating are so few that not everyone who is talented and works hard will be able to win the biggest titles, or medals, or get to attend an Olympics or even Worlds.

 

[aliceanne]

I think he hit the nail on the head when he stated the difference between skating in the U.S. and Russia is that in the U.S. it is considered a hobby that you are paying to do, while in Russia it is a career that you are paid to do. It changes the student/coach relationship and the level of commitment. It isn’t a good or a bad thing, just a fact.

 

[AxelAnnie]

That was really fun to read. He is so articulate and reasoned in his responses. Loved it.