"On Edge" - Olympic Channel's docuseries featuring 6 teams from Ice Academy of Montreal

Viscaro

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139
In any case, the interview made it look like it was this season, which is wasn't. I was surprised by how annoyed Madi was about it tbh. Also, she makes it look like PC are the only one she has to beat, although they are unbeaten for a while they are not the reigning world champions (or Euros for that matter). I guess I understand her point of view (you do not dedicate hours and hours of training to just not win), and expressing it in front of a camera might be political, but as a P/C fan hufff... I didn't like that.

Thanks for the clarification on the sub !
 

firstflight

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518
Madison gave some great reality TV face during the dinner with Adrian. :lol: Interesting that Gabi’s imagined (preferred?) Olympic podium is P/C, H/D, S/K.

I think it’s great that she is ambitious and competitive. Sometimes I think it shows up in her skating in the wrong ways at the worst moments, unfortunately, but that’s the double-edge sword of passion in sport.
I appreciate her candor on camera. I really do. I’m just a bit puzzled by her mindset. Yes, anyone could/should aim for the gold, but they were also comfortably beaten by S/K at the last two world championships.

My question watching her conversation with Adrian is “Who put in her mind that they actually could be in Gold Medal contention if only the judges were fair?”

Obviously the judges haven’t been communicating that they are in Olympic gold contention with them not being able to come that close to S/K at the last two world championships. They beat S/K at the Montreal-flex GPF of 2019, but that flex was clearly rebuked at the following Europeans.

Is the “we should be in contention” message coming from fans, coaches, or their own evaluation of their relative skating skills?
 

Sonata

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789
I found Madison's observations puzzling as well. At the last two world championships, H/D made mistakes that took them out of gold medal contention. I don't consider them even close to P/C (and clearly Papadakis doesn't either, if she made that commentary on the podium). TBH this whole documentary series has not made me a fan of MH. I'm not sure it was the best decision to participate.

How many episodes left? That detailed with Marie-France made me think it was the last episode. I definitely would have preferred to have watched more skating than hear about Hubbell and Diaz's wedding plans for what seemed like half the episode.
 

Gris

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1,056
I saw that Madison & Gabriella thing has sparked controversy on other platforms, now it has reached here too :lol:

I mean, the whole show (at least the non-skating part) is probably heavily scripted and edited, as with other reality shows. And obviously Gadbois made this show to promote/politick for their own teams. Don't think it can tell much about how the skaters are in real life or what they truly think. 🤷‍♀️

I hope they show more skating content in the following episodes.
 

Karen-W

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17,314
I found Madison's observations puzzling as well. At the last two world championships, H/D made mistakes that took them out of gold medal contention. I don't consider them even close to P/C (and clearly Papadakis doesn't either, if she made that commentary on the podium). TBH this whole documentary series has not made me a fan of MH. I'm not sure it was the best decision to participate.

How many episodes left? That detailed with Marie-France made me think it was the last episode. I definitely would have preferred to have watched more skating than hear about Hubbell and Diaz's wedding plans for what seemed like half the episode.
This was episode 9 - seems like there are 12 episodes, so next episode should be British/French/Spanish Nats on 1/18, then US/Canadian Nats on 1/25, then Euros/wrap-up on 2/1 and then the Olympics start.
 

deegee

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419
I appreciate her candor on camera. I really do. I’m just a bit puzzled by her mindset. Yes, anyone could/should aim for the gold, but they were also comfortably beaten by S/K at the last two world championships.

My question watching her conversation with Adrian is “Who put in her mind that they actually could be in Gold Medal contention if only the judges were fair?”

Obviously the judges haven’t been communicating that they are in Olympic gold contention with them not being able to come that close to S/K at the last two world championships. They beat S/K at the Montreal-flex GPF of 2019, but that flex was clearly rebuked at the following Europeans.

Is the “we should be in contention” message coming from fans, coaches, or their own evaluation of their relative skating skills?
yeah, when you put it that way, they haven't even been in clear/decided silver medal contention throughout this quad. just 2 seasons ago they finished in third at four continents behind c/b and g/p and have traded the u.s. championships with madi & evan every year since 2019.

anyhow, i like the forthrightness. it feels refreshing-- even gabi's comments about the olympic podium.

they're professional competitors. i expect nothing less than a driving desire to win accompanied by strong disappointment in results they don't like.

heck, i'm that catty when i don't win a round of uno in my house with no gold medal at stake 😆 it makes them all more relatable to me.

BUT i agree that there was too much side convo and too little skating.
 

muffinplus

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4,303
I appreciate her candor on camera. I really do. I’m just a bit puzzled by her mindset. Yes, anyone could/should aim for the gold, but they were also comfortably beaten by S/K at the last two world championships.
And how much of that was due to politics and bad programs? I totally understand her frustration. Ice dance scoring/"get in line" is a joke, and I'm a big P/C fan too.
 

bcash

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493
H/D are adults, and at this point, have to take responsibility for their own choices. According to their interviews, H/D are the ones picking their music, and they are picking music they want to skate to.

It's interesting to me to see the difference between H/D and V/M, though. V/M, in the comeback especially, made clear that they wanted to skate to music they liked...but also they made sure it was music that would put them into a position to win...as seen by the way they re-edited and re-choreographed 40% of their Moulin Rouge FD between GPF and Nationals. That kind of drive has to come from the skaters themselves.
H/D fine-tune and rework their programs constantly with the aim to win/position higher I'm sure, and I think we've all seen it.

I might be in the minority here but I thought the mid-century and contemporary "Americana" stuff suited them well, and gave them a distinct look amongst the top teams. I was puzzled why no judging panel wanted to reward them even when the execution was excellent. The R&J was a real snoozer and the concept ill-fitting. The Hallelujah FD was not too innovative but quite beautiful and had a real impact when skated well. I showed their Worlds performance to a non-skating-fan friend who said she felt "healed" watching them gliding across the ice with such smooth power to that song. But again, I don't understand why that shouldn't have been closer to or scored above S/K's programs which have been generic (most of the time), not always skated clean, and showed noticeable strengths and weaknesses skating-wise. C/B came out with a Snake Charmer FD which I found quaint at best and retrogressive at worst, though perhaps a somewhat new look for them, and all of a sudden the judges (esp. the US judges) were rushing to reward them. I actually am surprised they've managed not to show any hint of frustration in their interviews over the years. There's that one time when S/K beat P/C at Europeans and Madison, when asked about the result, gave an answer that sounded to me as if she was making a case for her and Zach if they were in S/K's position.

As for their (shoulda coulda) rivalry with P/C, I think P/C matches them in depth of edge, speed and flow, but really has a level of physical, "dancerly" articulation (from both skaters, esp.post-2017) that not only H/D can't match but is above any team in recent memory. Of course this is not to say P/C hasn't benefited from generous scoring as the reigning World and European champions but that comes with the territory, as Madison knows.
 
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Andora

Skating season ends as baseball season begins
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And how much of that was due to politics and bad programs? I totally understand her frustration. Ice dance scoring/"get in line" is a joke, and I'm a big P/C fan too.

I'm no S&K fan, but let's not pretend H&D had brilliant programs this quad. Halleluiah was as close as they came, and even that was a bit pedestrian for them. Sorry-- organic to them. :lol:

I question whether H&D thought they really could challenge P&C for a long time, and now at the end of their careers it's too little lip service, too late. I think Madison's frustration should be with herself rather than scores.
 

muffinplus

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I'm no S&K fan, but let's not pretend H&D had brilliant programs this quad. Halleluiah was as close as they came, and even that was a bit pedestrian for them. Sorry-- organic to them. :lol:

I question whether H&D thought they really could challenge P&C for a long time, and now at the end of their careers it's too little lip service, too late. I think Madison's frustration should be with herself rather than scores.

Obviously they didn't have brilliant programs, not even arguing that? But their skating quality is right up there...scores don't refelect that.
 

Theatregirl1122

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NGL the last time H/D had a program I thought was great was Beth Hart. Which was a whole quad ago. This whole quad has been generic. S/K's placements over them may be political but P/C's are not, and H/D would make a much better case for themselves if they ever skated to anything memorable.
 

wickedwitch

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NGL the last time H/D had a program I thought was great was Beth Hart. Which was a whole quad ago. This whole quad has been generic. S/K's placements over them may be political but P/C's are not, and H/D would make a much better case for themselves if they ever skated to anything memorable.
Yep.

H/D are technically the best team out there. But their program choices have ranged from fine (Hallelujah) to terrible (Romeo and Juliet, Marilyn Monroe) all quad. Had they had better programs, I think they would be challenging for gold here. Even just one great program would have significantly buoyed their chances.
 

skatingguy

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NGL the last time H/D had a program I thought was great was Beth Hart. Which was a whole quad ago. This whole quad has been generic. S/K's placements over them may be political but P/C's are not, and H/D would make a much better case for themselves if they ever skated to anything memorable.
Yep.

H/D are technically the best team out there. But their program choices have ranged from fine (Hallelujah) to terrible (Romeo and Juliet, Marilyn Monroe) all quad. Had they had better programs, I think they would be challenging for gold here. Even just one great program would have significantly buoyed their chances.
Hubbell/Donohue also have a terrible habit of making mistakes at the worst possible moment. They've been better in the past 4 years in that respect, but the doubt is still there & that has to have some impact on the scores.
 

muffinplus

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NGL the last time H/D had a program I thought was great was Beth Hart. Which was a whole quad ago. This whole quad has been generic. S/K's placements over them may be political but P/C's are not, and H/D would make a much better case for themselves if they ever skated to anything memorable.
No, but they make mistakes sometimes which are not reflected in their GOE (i.e.the step sequence in GPF 2019 they got positive GOE that she was referring to ...so it's impossible to approach them whether they make a mistake or not, which is what MH was referring to and was frustrated by.
 

GreenGan

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No, but they make mistakes sometimes which are not reflected in their GOE (i.e.the step sequence in GPF 2019 they got positive GOE that she was referring to ...so it's impossible to approach them whether they make a mistake or not, which is what MH was referring to and was frustrated by.
H/D got 0.5 point of GoE on that choreo lift in the GP of Italy. They had a stumble, so if I read the rules right (and I totally could be wrong), it counts for two negative features (for Zach) and then they should've got at least a -1 (I guess you could count some delay in the glide too, which would've been 3 negative features, ie -2).

Sometimes mistake in judging also benefits H/D. Let's not pretend that they are always perfect and that they are the only one fairly judged. (Which is not what Madison Hubbell said.)

Rules : https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/id-handbooks-faq
Protocols for Torino : http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2122/gpita2021/
 

muffinplus

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H/D got 0.5 point of GoE on that choreo lift in the GP of Italy. They had a stumble, so if I read the rules right (and I totally could be wrong), it counts for two negative features (for Zach) and then they should've got at least a -1 (I guess you could count some delay in the glide too, which would've been 3 negative features, ie -2).

Sometimes mistake in judging also benefits H/D. Let's not pretend that they are always perfect and that they are the only one fairly judged. (Which is not what Madison Hubbell said.)

Rules : https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/id-handbooks-faq
Protocols for Torino : http://www.isuresults.com/results/season2122/gpita2021/

I never said "H/D always get correct judging" so I'm not sure why you are bringing this example up :confused:
 

Miloune

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NGL the last time H/D had a program I thought was great was Beth Hart. Which was a whole quad ago. This whole quad has been generic. S/K's placements over them may be political but P/C's are not, and H/D would make a much better case for themselves if they ever skated to anything memorable.
Agreed. They should focus on beating S/K, who I think don't belong above them.
 

morqet

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No, but they make mistakes sometimes which are not reflected in their GOE (i.e.the step sequence in GPF 2019 they got positive GOE that she was referring to ...so it's impossible to approach them whether they make a mistake or not, which is what MH was referring to and was frustrated by.
Loss of control e.g. single stumble or touchdown doesn't require overall negative GOE - it's a -2 deduction from the overall GOE, but if there are at least 5 other positive features the GOE can still be positive for the element.
 

thvu

Usova's Apprentice
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Loss of control e.g. single stumble or touchdown doesn't require overall negative GOE - it's a -2 deduction from the overall GOE, but if there are at least 5 other positive features the GOE can still be positive for the element.
Yes. Hubbell needs to read the rules if she's still bothered by what happened at the 2019 GPF. It's easy to count 4-6 positive features for PapCiz's step sequence. The -2 for the stumble by Papadakis puts overall features at 2-4, resulting in a GOE of +1 or +2. The overall marks for that element are legitimate and within the rules. If you can find one more positive feature I didn't give credit for, GOE goes to +3.
 

muffinplus

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Loss of control e.g. single stumble or touchdown doesn't require overall negative GOE - it's a -2 deduction from the overall GOE, but if there are at least 5 other positive features the GOE can still be positive for the element.

I don't think that's the point... would judges apply give the same GOE to anyone else or would they have they been harsher?
 

thvu

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I don't think that's the point... would judges apply give the same GOE to anyone else or would they have they been harsher?
Would anyone else have the same quality that P/C have?
Exactly. Just count the features. The marks were not at all out of line.

Same goes for HubDon's Choreographic Lift in Italy this season. It got an overall positive GOE, which is perfectly within the guidelines for marking GOE, even with Zach's stumble.

The max GOE for an element with a negative feature is +3. Both skaters need to stumble or at least one needs to fall for a mandatory negative GOE.
 

VGThuy

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Some (including me) will argue that although it is not scored that way, H/D have the same quality and sometimes better quality elements compared to P/C, and also more complex ones often.
H/D do get positive GOEs for errors though. I mean not wipeouts or anything, but when I think of teams that judges are stingy with, H/D aren't a team that comes to mind.
 

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