"On Edge" - Olympic Channel's docuseries featuring 6 teams from Ice Academy of Montreal

GreenGan

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I never said "H/D always get correct judging" so I'm not sure why you are bringing this example up :confused:
I just wanted to say that since we are not judges here it's easy to say that "this is not correct judging" on one particular element when we don't have the eye/the knowledge/the experience of said judges and don't discriminate every point from each element of the whole program. I also think I made a mistake and confused you with another poster here. Sorry for that.
Exactly. Just count the features. The marks were not at all out of line.

Same goes for HubDon's Choreographic Lift in Italy this season. It got an overall positive GOE, which is perfectly within the guidelines for marking GOE, even with Zach's stumble.

The max GOE for an element with a negative feature is +3. Both skaters need to stumble or at least one needs to fall for a mandatory negative GOE.
I should've @ you from the beginning ! Thanks for the technical input.
 

Rafter

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Yep.

H/D are technically the best team out there. But their program choices have ranged from fine (Hallelujah) to terrible (Romeo and Juliet, Marilyn Monroe) all quad. Had they had better programs, I think they would be challenging for gold here. Even just one great program would have significantly buoyed their chances.

H/D are the best technical team out there? Sorry I disagree with this. That title belongs to the French.

As for H/D’s bad programs, let’s not forget the terrible Shallow/Lady Gaga FD!
 

escaflowne9282

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H/D are the best technical team out there? Sorry I disagree with this. That title belongs to the French.

As for H/D’s bad programs, let’s not forget the terrible Shallow/Lady Gaga FD!
I absolutely agree that P&C are clearly the best. However, the team that should have been set up this quad as potential spoilers who could have them on their toes is really H&D and not S&K.
I feel a certain level of frustration on behalf of H&D because of that. While their programs have not been great for this quad, S&K's have been downright mediocre at best. While H&D have not been consistent, neither have S&K nor C&B. It also feels like despite 3 world medals , the USFSA has not politically been in their corner.
 

Karen-W

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I absolutely agree that P&C are clearly the best. However, the team that should have been set up this quad as potential spoilers who could have them on their toes is really H&D and not S&K.
I feel a certain level of frustration on behalf of H&D because of that. While their programs have not been great for this quad, S&K's have been downright mediocre at best. While H&D have not been consistent, neither have S&K nor C&B. It also feels like despite 3 world medals , the USFSA has not politically been in their corner.
Perhaps, but it's well known the USFS doesn't really politick for their teams when there are 2-3 neck and neck. Plus, isn't it kind of a chicken & egg scenario where had HubDon come out with really strong material the scores and USFS political backing would have swung their way? It's not the USFS' fault that they picked awful music and programs whereas their closest domestic rivals picked much better material and gave us far better programs. If that meant the USFS played hands off in the politicking then so be it.
 

VGThuy

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The USFS takes a hands-off approach when they have multiple top ice dance teams competing for similar spots. The teams were pretty much on their own from 2015-2018 (to the benefit of H/D), so I'm not surprised that has carried over to the next cycle. Don't forget that C/B are also multiple World medalists, have GP success, and won 4CCs in the past 4 years. They were strong medal contenders in 2020 Worlds before it was canceled as well. I don't think C/B should be "sacrificed" in favor of H/D. Let the skating go the way it goes.
 

GreenGan

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199
I do like S/K pattern this year. It has nice flowing and deep edge, and I like their skating, except maybe their twizzles, which are still.. Impressive ? They are very good on the technical, to my eyes at H/D's level.
On the other hand, P/C and the top american teams have memorable program, at least two that I can mention (ofc including RD). I can't do that for S/K. I'm more reminded of S/B, but that is probably due to preference. Also with Nikita's back injury, I don't think a podium is that obvious for the russians.

Am I the only one that feels S/K didn't leave any great program on their era ? What programs pops in your head when you think of this quad in dance ?
 

Peepsquick

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I do like S/K pattern this year. It has nice flowing and deep edge, and I like their skating, except maybe their twizzles, which are still.. Impressive ? They are very good on the technical, to my eyes at H/D's level.
On the other hand, P/C and the top american teams have memorable program, at least two that I can mention (ofc including RD). I can't do that for S/K. I'm more reminded of S/B, but that is probably due to preference. Also with Nikita's back injury, I don't think a podium is that obvious for the russians.

Am I the only one that feels S/K didn't leave any great program on their era ? What programs pops in your head when you think of this quad in dance ?
I would agree in general but I enjoyed their Tango RD in 2019.
 

escaflowne9282

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S&K had a nice tango RD in 2019. For me ,that was their best program. In 2020 and 2021 ,they had a solid but basic bitch RD to Singing in the Rain.
Their FDs have all been to well known classical pieces that seem to not do anything for them , and TBH have made them look sloppy. We now have a butchered version of Rach2 which they had already skated to previously in 2017-2018. I don't think they have had any FDs this quad that were really that worthwhile. I'd say their best was to Air/Preludium, and that's only because I liked the music.

I still say a character based program would have been their best bet.
 
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MacMadame

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H/D are the best technical team out there? Sorry I disagree with this. That title belongs to the French.

As for H/D’s bad programs, let’s not forget the terrible Shallow/Lady Gaga FD!
I'm not sure I can. :yikes:

The USFS takes a hands-off approach when they have multiple top ice dance teams competing for similar spots. The teams were pretty much on their own from 2015-2018 (to the benefit of H/D), so I'm not surprised that has carried over to the next cycle. Don't forget that C/B are also multiple World medalists, have GP success, and won 4CCs in the past 4 years. They were strong medal contenders in 2020 Worlds before it was canceled as well. I don't think C/B should be "sacrificed" in favor of H/D. Let the skating go the way it goes.
I don't see why they can't politic for both at the same time.

S&K had a nice tango RD in 2019. For me ,that was their best program. In 2020 and 2021 ,they had a solid but basic bitch RD to Singing in the Rain.
I thought their Singing in the Rain was lovely and suited them.
 

escaflowne9282

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I thought their Singing in the Rain was lovely and suited them.
I admit it was a fairly solid,well constructed program, and it was definitely one of the better efforts during a cringe worthy RD season. It just seemed like a more conventionally safe choice to me, although certainly a decent program.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt , I guess. There weren't really any RDs I was crazy about in the Broadway theme. Some were ok and had their fun moments, but that's not a theme I wish to see again anytime soon.
 

bcash

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493
S&K had a nice tango RD in 2019. For me ,that was their best program. In 2020 and 2021 ,they had a solid but basic bitch RD to Singing in the Rain.
Their FDs have all been to well known classical pieces that seem to not do anything for them , and TBH have made them look sloppy. We now have a butchered version of Rach2 which they had already skated to previously in 2017-2018. I don't think they have had any FDs this quad that were really that worthwhile. I'd say their best was to Air/Preludium, and that's only because I liked the music.

I still say a character based program would have been their best bet.
I liked their Dvorak FD. That piece of music I've always loved and they made a nice enough program to it. But there's always a slightly unfinished quality to every element they do.
 

escaflowne9282

Reformed Manspreader
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3,520
The USFS takes a hands-off approach when they have multiple top ice dance teams competing for similar spots. The teams were pretty much on their own from 2015-2018 (to the benefit of H/D), so I'm not surprised that has carried over to the next cycle. Don't forget that C/B are also multiple World medalists, have GP success, and won 4CCs in the past 4 years. They were strong medal contenders in 2020 Worlds before it was canceled as well. I don't think C/B should be "sacrificed" in favor of H/D. Let the skating go the way it goes.
I don't think anyone should be sacrificed at all. Like @MacMadame stated , there's no reason the USFSA couldn't politic for both. There have been a few moments where it felt like both teams should have been given a tad bit more consideration vs. S&K. I appreciate that the USFSA can't play favorites. I'm just not sure that being so hands off is really the best idea.
 

Debbie S

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i was so hoping for the chaos that would ensue with a response from gabi/guillaume about madi's face plant comment from the previous episode. instead, we got to hear zach talk about how inadequate he feels as a man bc he cannot forge knives like nik :yawn:
Presumably, the skaters don't see each episode until it airs. The one today was obviously filmed in early Dec, since they talked about the GPF cancellation, and I would assume Gabby didn't see last week's episode until the rest of us did.
 

bcash

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493
Presumably, the skaters don't see each episode until it airs. The one today was obviously filmed in early Dec, since they talked about the GPF cancellation, and I would assume Gabby didn't see last week's episode until the rest of us did.
Or they might not watch the actual episodes at all. Due to schedule/lack of interest etc.
 

MacMadame

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Presumably, the skaters don't see each episode until it airs. The one today was obviously filmed in early Dec, since they talked about the GPF cancellation, and I would assume Gabby didn't see last week's episode until the rest of us did.
I find it hard to believe that these teams don't know what is going on with the documentary. It's quite possible they review the raw footage and even have a say in what is shown. And both teams have said they are close. It's quite possible H/D have expressed this frustration before (actually haven't they said similar in press conferences at least once?) and Gabby already knows they are frustrated and it hasn't impacted their friendship.
 

Debbie S

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There’s also the chance that part of this is scripted and staged for drama :p
Really? You mean reality TV isn't 100% real? :lol:

Aside from the scripting, the skaters likely worked with the producers on the off-ice scenes. But I doubt they get to review and approve the raw footage and editing. I imagine the releases they signed give them the option to opt out of the on-ice filming on a particular day and give them some control over what/where they film (homes, etc) but once the filming is done, it's out of their hands. If every skater got to review the raw footage and decide what got included or not, production would take a very long time.

Given the number of years these skaters have been skating, they've likely heard their share of catty comments and have learned to ignore/laugh them off. I doubt Gabby cares.
 

angi

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574
I don't find what Madi said as problematic or offensive as some people seem to think, she was voicing the issues she has with the judging and it was a good example of a controversial (at least for some) judging decision and a case where even commentators were surprised by the positive GOE (I specifically remember Asher Hill during one of the shows he's doing with Dylan saying that he loves P/C but it bothered him to see a positive GOE for that element). If anything I think Gabi's comments to Madi on the podium were more insensitive than what Madi said during the episode.
Either way, I don't expect any of them to address it unless they will be asked to comment on it specifically, none of them will want negative media attention this close to the games, it goes against the purpose of On Edge to begin with.
 

dancelion21

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176
I find it hard to believe that these teams don't know what is going on with the documentary. It's quite possible they review the raw footage and even have a say in what is shown. And both teams have said they are close. It's quite possible H/D have expressed this frustration before (actually haven't they said similar in press conferences at least once?) and Gabby already knows they are frustrated and it hasn't impacted their friendship.
I think the way that this show is filmed is that there are always cameras at the rink to cover training. However, there aren't cameras following the skaters outside of the rink or their homes. So any scene we see of them outside the rink was "staged" since unlike most reality tv shows, the subjects aren't followed all the time so they don't really get used to the cameras on them all the time. Every scene outside the rink is thus staged/scripted to some extent, but it's also very obvious that some scenes are more natural than others. So like, in episode 9, I'm sure that Zach doesn't just randomly have wedding discussions with Madi and Adrian. However, Madi speaking her mind about P/C's overscoring came across as much more natural.
 

MacMadame

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But I doubt they get to review and approve the raw footage and editing.
In projects I have been involved in, there was a lot of watching of the raw footage on an informal basis. I'm not saying they sent it to each skater and had them review it and approve it. Just that there would be "hey watch this!" or the raw footage would be screened every night in order to make decisions about future filming and anyone who wanted to could watch it.

Also, some people would sign a contract that stated they had veto power over the final product as a condition of participating. Depending on how a project was set up, I might insist on that.

It's not clear to me who is doing the documentary and what relationship they have with IAM. It's possible that IAM hired someone to create this and if so, all the participants know the directives that were given and feel comfortable with them.
 

Orm Irian

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It's not clear to me who is doing the documentary and what relationship they have with IAM. It's possible that IAM hired someone to create this and if so, all the participants know the directives that were given and feel comfortable with them.
All the info I can find points to it being an Olympic Channel production first and foremost, not an IAM one. Among other things, it wouldn't be published on the Olynpic Channel website if it were someone else's production. Not to mention the practical element that IAM has more important places to put its money right now than hiring film crews and post-production facilities and editors for an extended on-spec promo piece!

As to whose initiative it was - whether the Olympic Channel approached IAM with the idea or vice versa - I haven't been able to find any info. But I'd think it more likely OC pitched it to IAM than the other way around.
 

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