Miss America 2.0

[skatesindreams]

I think a better leader would have been able to make the exact same changes without half the pushback just by being more transparent and implementing some of the ideas better.

Gretchen Carlson may be too "polarizing" a leader; given her own history.
It takes a certain amount of give/take to be an effective negotiator; which she may be unwilling to do.

 

[WillyElliot]

Here's today's article from the Inquirer: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/n...tic-city-swimsuit-regina-hopper-20180725.html

I have pageant friends who are in Orlando this week. It is a total cluster****.

 

[taf2002]

I applaud eliminating SS but don't touch the evening gown competition! I love fancy clothes so that was my favorite part. DH & I used to rate the dresses. Of course he liked the SS the best.

Actually it's been years since we have watched any pageant so they can do what they like AFAIC. I think that pageants are not relevant anymore (if they ever were).

 

[skatesindreams]

Don't touch the evening gown competition

Agreed.
It demonstrates fitness and the constestant's taste level; as well as how one prepares for an "occasion", without saying a word.

 

[BaileyCatts]

I second that! Evening gown is my favorite part! I sometimes pick my winners based on the dress I like the most when the Top 5 are standing there waiting for the final results, not really remembering how they did in the other parts of the competition. And lots of times I end up picking the order correctly!

 

[Cachoo]

Does anyone use "miss" anymore? Ms. America? I think it is past it's prime and should go away forever. However I am reminded the of pageant system from baby on up to woman that is especially popular in the South so I think there is still interest out there. I think once it is narrowed down to the top five it should be strictly an audience vote after the final questions are asked and answered. "You choose" might bring in more viewers. Oh and pay cash prizes instead of scholies.

 

[taf2002]

Does anyone use "miss" anymore? Ms. America? I think it is past it's prime and should go away forever. However I am reminded the of pageant system from baby on up to woman that is especially popular in the South so I think there is still interest out there. I think once it is narrowed down to the top five it should be strictly an audience vote after the final questions are asked and answered. "You choose" might bring in more viewers. Oh and pay cash prizes instead of scholies.

I find audience vote to be a problem. It's like the votes for American Idol. Whoever has the most dedicated fans, fans that are willing to call in for hours, will win despite not being the best choice. Or in this case the contestant who has the most fans actually in the audience will win.

 

[VGThuy]

But isn't the contestant the most fans mean that they are an "idol" and have something about them that made them have the most passionate and dedicated fans? It seems American Idol was always more than just a singing competition but about finding the next "it" person, which will always be a crapshoot because who knows why certain people make it up big, why certain people get moderate success, and why most others get forgotten about. We all know talent ain't enough to become famous.

As for the Miss America pageant, aren't some the judges sort of random D-to-C list celebrities? And yes, I know my personal hero Michelle Kwan judged a Miss Universe pageant once, which is something I wish I could forget.

 

[Japanfan]

As for the Miss America pageant, aren't some the judges sort of random D-to-C list celebrities? And yes, I know my personal hero Michelle Kwan judged a Miss Universe pageant once, which is something I wish I could forget.

Thanks! I had completely forgotten that.

Elvis Stojko was also invited to judge Miss Universe, or some other pageant (I think the same one to which Kwan received an invite).

 

[WillyElliot]

But isn't the contestant the most fans mean that they are an "idol" and have something about them that made them have the most passionate and dedicated fans? It seems American Idol was always more than just a singing competition but about finding the next "it" person, which will always be a crapshoot because who knows why certain people make it up big, why certain people get moderate success, and why most others get forgotten about. We all know talent ain't enough to become famous.

I was under the impression that with shows like American Idol, a single person could vote as many times as they could. Besides, if MA gets even a 1 share that is still weak, so there are not many people even watching the pageant, sorry, competition.

More untruths/deceptions: Regina, the new CEO, has been touting that she is doing this on a volunteer basis. Hmmm. Her CEO contract stipulates that if the pageant gets televised she will be awarded $250k. ABC had a three year contract ending this year, so it was always going to be televised. It's just more dishonesty from Gretchen and Regina.

I do not mean to give the impression that I am bashing Gretchen. She did not run over my dog or anything. I cannot say all I know about her and what she's doing. She has always been a conceited know it all. Her state director when she competed had been pretty critical of Gretchen, saying she was rude and conceited and had to be told to be polite and nice to others. He was hoping she would win MA so he'd never have to deal with her again. Her behavior is legendary. She has a tendency to forget that she's not on Faux Friends anymore where she can speak freely without any regard to truth.

 

[Cachoo]

I guess I trust the audience to get it right (wait a minute Trump was elected.) I think if a contestant muffs a question she would not get the votes like someone who answers beautifully. And if someone loves a certain evening gown then why not give her one of your votes? I remember being awestruck by a gown worn by a Miss USA winner from Missouri years ago. I was ready to give her the crown after seeing it. That has not happened before or since so maybe those moments are special too. So often the judges who are selected are not there for the preliminaries. They are seeing what we are seeing that night---they are seeing who is lit from within and having a great night and who might be struggling with nerves just as we see it. Why don't we all vote--maybe their votes can be weighted differently???

 

[WillyElliot]

You might be right. Last week when Regina spoke to all the state representatives she made a point to encourage them to gain as many followers on their Instagram accounts. She mentioned the number 300,000. However, no one knew if she meant as a whole or individually. For a state like Alaska, 300,000 followers is roughly half the population of the entire state! So it might not be a surprise if the contestant with the most followers gets a "push" in the scoring. And since Regina would not give any specifics on the show's format this year, there might be something with the audience involved. Who knows at this point.

 

[CaliSteve]

Long time MAO volunteer here. Im open to change but my problem is there was no process and it was crammed down peoples throats with no warning. Gretchen was not honest about ABC wanting to remove swimsuit. At this point, im not sure shes much better then Sam.

 

[overedge]

John Oliver's segment on Miss America and scholarships:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDPCmmZifE8

His staff found that many of the scholarships that are awarded as prizes are tied to specific schools and/or programs. So it's misleading for the Miss America organization to imply that the contestants just get handed a cheque to spend on whatever kind of education they want. Additionally a considerable number of those specific schools and programs are of questionable quality.

 

[overedge]

Long time MAO volunteer here. Im open to change but my problem is there was no process and it was crammed down peoples throats with no warning. Gretchen was not honest about ABC wanting to remove swimsuit. At this point, im not sure shes much better then Sam.

Please. She may not be the best manager or the most collaborative leader, but at least she's not supporting a culture that includes sexual harassment and appearance-based insults.

 

[CaliSteve]

Please. She may not be the best manager or the most collaborative leader, but at least she's not supporting a culture that includes sexual harassment and appearance-based insults.

I never said she supported that type of culture. If that is the bar that is set for her then MAO wont survive.

This is a petition that some state ED signed. Im not sure if I agree with it, but its a sign of how folks feel the new leadership so far:

VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE AND A DEMAND FOR THE IMMEDIATE RESIGNATION OF
THE ENTIRE MISS AMERICA BOARD OF TRUSTEES AND PRESIDENT/CEO
We, the undersigned state licensees of the Miss America Organization (MAO), represent all areas of the United States, decades of leadership, and innumerable contributions to
the legacy of the Miss America Organization at every level. As dedicated members of our state and local communities who lend our reputations, financial support, and voluntary efforts to facilitate MAO’s long and powerful mission of empowering women to stand up and speak out, we find ourselves needing to use our own voices of leadership to express our profound disappointment regarding what, in our view, is the failed leadership of the entire MAO Board of Trustees led by Ms. Gretchen Carlson as its Chair and Ms. Regina Hopper as its President and CEO.

The recent ouster of two duly elected Trustees, followed by the resignations of two elected Miss Americas from the nine-member Board, have underscored our grave concerns regarding the direction in which MAO is headed, its financial viability, and the expected exercise of all duties attendant to each Trustee as required by law. We were promised transparency, competence, and adherence to best practices and good governance. The current Trustees and identified staff member have both individually and collectively failed to deliver on those promises and commitments. In our opinion their leadership has demonstrated that “Miss America 2.0” is simply a new title for the
same old tactics of obfuscation and fear-based governance.
THEREFORE, we the undersigned state licensees expressly declare NO CONFIDENCE IN THE ENTIRE BOARD OF TRUSTEES AND THE PRESIDENT/CEO. FURTHER, WE CALL FOR THE IMMEDIATE RESIGNATIONS OF EACH CURRENT MAO BOARD OF TRUSTEES MEMBER AND THE CANCELLATION OF ANY AND ALL CONTRACTS WITH THE CEO IDENTIFIED HEREIN.

STATE LICENSEES
Nan Teninbaum on behalf of the Miss Alabama Pageant, Inc.
Margo Fliss on behalf of the Miss Alaska Scholarship Foundation
Suzi Doland on behalf of the Miss Colorado Scholarship program, Inc
Nakiya Troth on behalf of the Miss Connecticut Scholarship Organization
Tricia Lloyd Morrin on behalf of the Miss District of Columbia Scholarship Organization, Inc.
Keith Williams Chairman of the Board & Acting Executive Director on behalf of the Miss
Florida Scholarship Pageant, Inc.
Mansfield Bias, Jr. on behalf of the Miss Georgia Program Corporation
Doug Brehm and Lisa Perez Miller on behalf of the Miss Kansas Pageant Inc.
Dewana Little on behalf of the Miss Louisiana Organization
W. David Blackledge on behalf of the Miss Mississippi Corporation
Jan Holden on behalf of the Miss Montana Scholarship Program
Sally Johnston on behalf of the Miss New Jersey Education Foundation
Art Hunsinger and Linda Carbo on behalf of the Miss New York Organization, Inc.
Teri Leeper Taylor on behalf of the Miss Oregon Scholarship Program, Inc.
Chet Welch on behalf of the Miss Pennsylvania Scholarship Organization, Inc.
Debi D’Iorio on behalf of the Miss Rhode Island Scholarship Program, Inc.
Jane Alderson on behalf of the Miss Tennessee Scholarship Pageant, Inc.
Jean Hatch on behalf of the Miss Utah Organization
Harlen Gudger on behalf of the Miss Virginia Organization
Peggy Miller on behalf of the Miss Washington Scholarship Organization
Leah Summers on behalf of the Miss West Virginia Scholarship Organization, Inc.
Jeanne Schmal on behalf of the Miss Wisconsin Pageant, Inc.

 

[overedge]

@CaliSteve you said that you thought Gretchen maybe wasn't that much better as a CEO than Sam was. Any comparison like that depends on what criteria are used, but IME being a headstrong manager is easier to fix than is letting a dysfunctional and negative culture develop throughout the entire organization.

 

[WillyElliot]

When Nan and Mansfield sign, there is a major problem.

 

[CaliSteve]

I agree with your assessment, but is Gretchen just a "headstrong manager" or is she an autocratic authoritarian who's leadership can lead to a dysfunctional and toxic environment. I really dont know and hopes its not the ladder.

Here is another letter from the formers (I think it was after this letter Gretchen called for a time for healing):

Dear Faithful Stakeholders, MASTA, Volunteers and Miss America Cara Mund,

We hear your concerned voices. We have seen the loss of your elected board members. We have witnessed more board members and staff resigning from the MAO office this summer. We continue to read newspaper articles that are not representing the organization in the best light. None of the other MAO leaders have lost so many board members and staff in such a short time.
We (former Miss Americas) were given a chance to replace the former Chairman and the whole board with our very own sisters. You have been gracious, giving us your support from the beginning.
When the scandal broke in December/January, we as former Miss Americas supported the appointment of two of our sisters for INTERIM co-chair positions. Our sisters were meant to serve only as interim board members. A national search was to be done for a new CEO who would have the experience and business acumen to carry us through such a crisis and bring our beloved Miss America Organization into a new century. We did not get that. Unfortunately, a majority of former titleholders who were voted onto the national board have stepped down or been removed, and our Chairwoman did not carry out the national search for CEO as promised. Instead, she selected the sole candidate for board consideration and together they have taken the organization in a direction that we do not condone.
While we supported our new leadership initially, we disagree with the way some decisions were made and communicated to the board, main stakeholders and public. We believe there should be an apology to the sponsors, volunteers and our state and local titleholders if anything was done purposefully or unintentionally to divide our program.
Healing is absolutely needed. However, this current leadership still struggles to gain trust from those that they need: the volunteers and current contestants. The recent Associated Press article “Miss America Head Gretchen Carlson Seeks ‘Healing Process.’" is concerning as it brings to light issues intertwined with the pageant that must be heard and addressed in an open, honest and respectful way.
We apologize to you for the hardships you have had to endure as a result of our Chairwoman's and CEO's unsupportive decisions. We do not accept the inaccurate words about the sponsors and swimsuit competition. We want to convey our support to state directors, the class of 2019 contestants, MASTA, volunteers and our reigning Miss America. We insist that our current Chairwoman and CEO resign now, not after September 9. We honor our commitments to help the organization and lift up our volunteers and contestants.
This is not meant to be a personal attack on any one individual. Our hope is to unite in collaboration and lift the ideals of Miss America up higher than it has ever been before.
Sincerely,
Miss America 1984 Suzette Charles
Miss America 1991 Marjorie Vincent-Tripp
Miss America 1992 Carolyn Sapp Daniels
Miss America 1995 Heather Whitestone McCallum
Miss America 1998 Kate Shindle
Miss America 1999 Nicole Johnson
Miss America 2001 Angela Baraquio Grey
Miss America 2004 Ericka Dunlap
Miss America 2010 Caressa Cameron-Jackson
Miss America 2012 Laura Kaeppeler Fleiss
Miss America 2016 Betty Cantrell Maxwell

 

[CaliSteve]

According to this article in the Washington Post, she says that "physical appearance and poise will still matter — just as they would for any job interview. But the job of Miss America — these days envisioned as a nation-traveling young role model and advocate — has never required wearing a swimsuit, so why should the audition?"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...term=.2522b4790c23&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1


That was the big complaint that the 22 states who wrote the letter had. Not that the swimsuit competition was eliminated but that they can't figure out what the scoring is now in order for their contestants to prepare.

My POV is that the pageant has become increasingly irrelevant and ratings are down. They need to do something to shake up the event or watch it fade into oblivion.

The fact that they are having trouble getting scholarships isn't something that just happened the second it was announced there would be no swimsuit competition. Getting scholarships is a long, ongoing process and one of the justifications for suspending that part of the competition was that potential sponsors were turned off by the swimsuit portion. So the lack of scholarships happened first. And is a symptom of the overall problem - lack of relevancy and poor ratings.

Whether Gretchen Carlson is a good leader or not is a separate question. I think a better leader would have been able to make the exact same changes without half the pushback just by being more transparent and implementing some of the ideas better.

So many similarities between Miss America and Figure Skating. Both realize it needs to move forward to survive but don't know which direction to take.

They should have realized that making major change, like eliminating swimsuit, is going to be controversial. You need "buy in" and you need to bring everyone to the table to discuss before moving forward with a change like that.

 

[WillyElliot]

I totally disagree with the point trying to be made that since as Miss America she will not be donning a SS, so why have that part of the equation to win? Well, Debbye Turner did not trot out her marimbas, Kaye Lani Raye Rafko did not perform her hula dance, even Cara this year I am sure did not dance and do her "chair move", so why should talent now count for 50%? This is a personal agenda of Gretchen, who was only a bright Stanford student and who in her own words "could play a wild violin". Gretchen wants to crown Miss Gretchen America, and she is using the #MeToo platform to further her own agenda and some say political aspirations even if she has to go on national tv and lie to the American audience. It is very interesting that the latest letter from the former Misses America is signed by the ones who were dealing very closely with this new Board and CEO, and have resigned in the past few months. They know what is going on. It is not just about SS. It is an honesty and dictatorial issue.

 

[CaliSteve]

I totally disagree with the point trying to be made that since as Miss America she will not be donning a SS, so why have that part of the equation to win? Well, Debbye Turner did not trot out her marimbas, Kaye Lani Raye Rafko did not perform her hula dance, even Cara this year I am sure did not dance and do her "chair move", so why should talent now count for 50%? This is a personal agenda of Gretchen, who was only a bright Stanford student and who in her own words "could play a wild violin". Gretchen wants to crown Miss Gretchen America, and she is using the #MeToo platform to further her own agenda and some say political aspirations even if she has to go on national tv and lie to the American audience. It is very interesting that the latest letter from the former Misses America is signed by the ones who were dealing very closely with this new Board and CEO, and have resigned in the past few months. They know what is going on. It is not just about SS. It is an honesty and dictatorial issue.

That another thing I am offended that she made any comparison of the swimsuit competition to the MeToo movement. Gretchen should know better!

 

[WillyElliot]

Well, things just got more interesting. Cara Mund, current Miss America posted this lengthy letter detailing her horrendous year under Gretchen. Basically, Gretchen is a self-serving fraud and bully (big surprise,, right?) Maybe Cara got inspired by Omarosa, who really cares, but she's not going down without a fight.
https://acprimetime.com/2018-miss-america-cara-mund-shares-disturbing-behind-the-scenes-treatment/

 

[overedge]

I really hate the "new" format where only some of the finalists get to perform their talent on TV. I'm not sure talent should be worth 50% - this isn't American Idol or the Van Cliburn piano competition - but if it's going to be worth that much, at least let all of the finalists have their ear-cringing moments of horror chance to do their thing on TV.

 

[WillyElliot]

Update: The 22 original state franchises ("a noisy minority") that called for Gretchen and Regina to step down immediately has now reached 30, so now it is a noisy majority. Also, 14 other states are calling for their resignations but after the pageant, er, competition.

Gretchen has been shown to be the bullying, lying, narcissist that she is. She took control of MAO for her own self-promotion, and it has backfired. Lying witch.

 

[CaliSteve]

More MAO Drama. This was sent to State EDs from Jennifer Vanden Barth:


This was sent to State EDs earlier today.
Recent events have come to the attention of former Miss Americas and myself. We think some are of the details, but not all. Unfortunately, the lack of transparency and incompetency that spurred the states and formers into action have now been placed on the shoulders of our titleholders. It is imperative that recent events are made known.
Regina Hopper called two meetings with contestants over the weekend.
Here are details of what transpired:
Significant changes are being made to the manner in which the phases of competition are being conducted and, accordingly judged, at the 11th hour. After months of being asked to describe the new format for which these contestants would be competing, and hiring producer Phil Gurrin, of Shark Tank fame, to help create an interactive interview “Shark Tank-type” phase of competition, Regina announced, along with Ernst&Young present via conference call, that on the telecast, the Top 15 will no longer compete in this phase as previously described. In fact the contestants will now submit questions to ask each other during this first phase of competition. Be advised, this is the time when the public and new celebrity panel were to get to know these contestants better via an extension of their interview. This is now being scrapped at the last minute despite contestants and state executive directors have prepared amongst anxiety and ambiguity. While the Miss State and Miss America must be strong, confident and flexible, this crosses a line with mere days before competition begins. These women have competed one way at the state level, prepared another way over the summer with ever-changing directives on this new phase of competition, and yet again another format change is being thrown at them at the last minute. More incompetence is exemplified, this time supported by a $200,000 consultant. Why did they ignore his advice? Why was he hired in the first place? This demonstrates incompetence.
MAO, through its CEO and other leadership, are continuing the campaign of keeping state organizations in the dark and seeking to divide your state contestants from their state officials. At this first meeting, Regina asked all contestants not to communicate this to their State ED's. This supports Cara’s claim that this leadership wants to “keep things in the family”. This speaks to the lack of transparency and integrity.
State directors are being left out production-wise and prep-wise of their respective state representative’s competition at Miss America. The contestants are having the rug pulled out from under them. Demanding the contestants keep this secret so as to help Regina cover up her incompetence is compounding the pressure on the contestants to do as they are told and to not reach out to their support system for fear of retribution. This is intimidation.
MAO, through its CEO and other leadership, have been unwilling or unable to answer reasonable questions asked by the contestants. Sunday night, Regina called the second meeting with all 51 contestants. Confirmed documentation that contestants ask tough questions but Regina dodged and diverted from answering them.
MAO, through its CEO and other leadership, is systematically, distancing contestants from the state and local programs. Contestants were directed not to refer to themselves as “Miss”-State, but rather “I am from the state of….” Fortunately, the contestants did announce they would be using “Miss State” regardless of what has been directed. This completely devalues the achievement they have earned and it is causing further confusion as to the identity of this program. Could this be laying the groundwork to eventually eliminate State organizations and have at-large (regional) competitions?
The state representatives are confident young women who clearly see the the concerns related to integrity, incompetency and intimidation. At this Sunday night meeting contestants asked:
1) why they are changing things when they all competed under a certain criteria and are applying for the job of Miss America yet they can’t use that title for their current achievement.
2) for the employee contract but still were put off, as “Changes are still being made”.
3) why leadership has changed everything that is CORE to MAO brand and why setting the program back 50 years. Regina responded that it is “all about balance”. Regina explained she had to raise money and she had to do “whatever it took” to raise that money. (Note: this is the complete failure of this national leadership team since no money has been raised yet core elements of the program are being changed, expensive consultants are being hired then ignored, last minute-wholesale changes are announced, and the contestants are isolated from their support systems necessary to navigate and understand this chaos.) This speaks to lack of good governance and questionable ethics.
4) how they are supposed to recruit new participants when they themselves are unclear on what job they are interviewing for and what organization they currently represent.
Contestants reported* a myriad of reactions after this meeting. (*Paraphrased for confidentiality)
They expressed that they are now bearing witness to the type of mistreatment that Cara has experienced and described. They are distressed, confused and frustrated by the lack of transparency and integrity that leadership is now subjecting them to during their Atlantic City experience.
This is preventing our young women from competing at their best in a competition for which they have prepared for and deserve honest and ethical leadership. We know that states are scared to speak out for fear of retaliation but now the titleholders, the very women some states cited as the basis for their delay in taking any action, are bearing the full brunt of this incompetence.

 

[WillyElliot]

Yep. Gretchen and Regina are doing to the MAO what Trump is doing to America. I've stopped posting all the latest news that I'm receiving from my friends who are in the midst of this destruction. I suspect after preliminaries several women will withdraw. They might show up just to walk the stage on tv but don't be surprised if they take their walk and proceed to walk right off the stage and out the door before the top 15 is even called. Gretchen will have the much deserved egg on her face.

 

[CaliSteve]

Yep. Gretchen and Regina are doing to the MAO what Trump is doing to America. I've stopped posting all the latest news that I'm receiving from my friends who are in the midst of this destruction. I suspect after preliminaries several women will withdraw. They might show up just to walk the stage on tv but don't be surprised if they take their walk and proceed to walk right off the stage and out the door before the top 15 is even called. Gretchen will have the much deserved egg on her face.

Gretchen (Trump 2.0) has destroyed MAO. I hope she will get several eggs in her face.

 

[WillyElliot]

Alrighty, this shitshow is about to commence in less than two hours. My cynical predictions combined with my Patty-dar:

Miss America: FL or LA (FL was one of the few who did not come out with support for Cara, so perfect for Gretchina) LA has been doing well this week.

The rest of the top 10: CT, AL, MS, VA, IN, AR, NC, DC and the extra wildcard is MA

I could be way off since no one really knows what to expect. Since Gretchen is so impressed with herself for attending Stanford, then CO is a Cum Laude from Harvard but has little of anything else. Since they are not being judged on physical appearance, who knows what will happen.

 

[WillyElliot]

I got 8 out of the top15. Some are headscratchers.

Edit: 6 of my picks in top10 now.