Miss America 2.0

[WillyElliot]

I am surprised no one has started a thread on this. Earlier this year there was a mutiny in the MAO and the president and CEO among others were fired and a new CEO and board were named. The new chair of the board is former Miss America and FAUX shill Gretchen Carlson. Well... a few changes were made. They have eliminated the swimsuit competition and evening gown and Gretchen has said that personal appearance will not be judged.

Oh.

What do you think about this? MA's ratings have been in the toilet and this is the last year of the contract with ABC. I'm surprised this new team would make such drastic changes to the program, and it looks to be a really boring pageant now so even fewer people will tune in. Is this the end of the Miss America Organization?

 

[skatesindreams]

I'll watch, to see whether the revamp is effective.

I admire Gretchen Carlson for attempting to change the culture of sexism and inappropriate behaviour that existed among executives associated with the organization.
Participants were in no way responsible.

The thousands of women who have benefited from millions in scholarship funds and opportunities for professional development should never apologize for using those funds to establish themselves.

 

[Japanfan]

They have eliminated the swimsuit competition and evening gown and Gretchen has said that personal appearance will not be judged.

What do you think about this? MA's ratings have been in the toilet and this is the last year of the contract with ABC. I'm surprised this new team would make such drastic changes to the program, and it looks to be a really boring pageant now so even fewer people will tune in. Is this the end of the Miss America Organization?

I'm all for not judging personal appearance. But what will they judge then? Debating skills, eloquence and commitment to a cause? I'm fine with that.

The objectification of women has long been a key component of beauty pageants or 'Miss ___' competitions. Without it, the contest isn't really a 'beauty pageant'.

I don't even like the "Miss" title. The word itself reflects sexism, although we don't think about it much. It separates single versus married women and defines women according to marital status. 'Mr'. does no such thing.

 

[Winnipeg]

When is it?

 

[skatesindreams]

[“The 2019 Miss America Competition” airs live on ABC, SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 9th(9:00–11:00 p.m. EDT),from Atlantic City’s historic Boardwalk Hall. /QUOTE]

 

[WillyElliot]

This will be an interesting one, because Gretchen is using this to boost her name value for possible political aspirations. She has been the proverbial 'bull in a china shop', and has alienated many in the organization because she is dictatorial, and has a tendency to forget how to tell the truth (sound familiar, Americans?). 22 states have called for her removal. And next week the states are getting together where the contestants have to sign a crazy contract. They can be 'fired' at any time for any reason. They have to acknowledge that the scholarship funds are not even guaranteed. It's becoming a corrupt dictatorship, and some states are threatening not to even send their representative.

As for swimsuit being eliminated and not being judged on physical appearance? Terrible idea. It's interesting that only 20% of women supported the elimination. I don't think that SS 'objectifies' them. It's to show fitness and health. Most pageant girls wanted to keep SS.

More will be known after next week.

 

[MacMadame]

The objectification of women has long been a key component of beauty pageants or 'Miss ___' competitions. Without it, the contest isn't really a 'beauty pageant'.

It depends on how you define beauty. If you define it by actions rather than appearances, then it still is one.

 

[skatesindreams]

This will be an interesting one, because Gretchen is using this to boost her name value for possible political aspirations. She has been the proverbial 'bull in a china shop', and has alienated many in the organization because she is dictatorial, and has a tendency to forget how to tell the truth (sound familiar, Americans?). 22 states have called for her removal. And next week the states are getting together where the contestants have to sign a crazy contract. They can be 'fired' at any time for any reason

It sounds as though she may be acting out her experiences at FOX News Channel.

 

[ilovepaydays]

As for swimsuit being eliminated and not being judged on physical appearance? Terrible idea. It's interesting that only 20% of women supported the elimination. I don't think that SS 'objectifies' them. It's to show fitness and health. Most pageant girls wanted to keep SS.

My only with the swimsuit competitions was that they had to wear heels with them. Really? But then again, I’ve never worn heels in my life and have always felt that they looked so uncomfortable.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Well... a few changes were made. They have eliminated the swimsuit competition and evening gown and Gretchen has said that personal appearance will not be judged.

Oh.

What do you think about this?

If Gretchen Carlson really thinks that the judges still won’t take what they think of the contestants’ physical appearance in their scoring, she’s a moron.

 

[WillyElliot]

My only with the swimsuit competitions was that they had to wear heels with them. Really? But then again, I’ve never worn heeels in my life and have always felt that they looked so uncomfortable.

In the late 90s they had them walk in bare feet. I agree, the heels are ridiculous, and their stomping and strutting in heels and ending with the vaj push pose is a bit much. They should have just gone back to bare feet instead of eliminating the entire event.

It appears Gretchen wants Miss America to be Miss Gretchen America. Average facial beauty, average to below SS, high intelligence and highly talented. Which is fine, but the vast majority of MAOs income is from the telecast profits. But who would be interested in watching this 'competition' (Gretchen changed it from still being called a pageant) where it's a bunch of Gretchens and Hillarys competing in pantsuits? As for talent? Give me a break. Talent is a joke in MA. I've watched the majority of the talents of the state winners this year, and well, I was just thankful they were only given 90 seconds. Embarrassing 'talents'. And anyway, people won't tune in for these talents, they'd tune in to real talent shows. I am very concerned this might be the end of it after this year.

 

[Winnipeg]

I think the change is going to ruin the show but we shall see.

 

[skateboy]

There are competitions for just about everything. I'm not really sure why it's so bad to have a competition where a woman's physical beauty and fitness are part of the criteria. They have similar competitions for men. For those against it, simply don't participate or watch.

 

[OlieRow]

I think my biggest complaint was this came out right before the state competitions started and maybe after some of the first states had been crowned. Not really fair to the contestants to change the rules mid season. If you want to eliminate swimsuit, change the way the scores are calculated, etc why not wait until the local competitions start the following year?

 

[WillyElliot]

I think my biggest complaint was this came out right before the state competitions started and maybe after some of the first states had been crowned. Not really fair to the contestants to change the rules mid season. If you want to eliminate swimsuit, change the way the scores are calculated, etc why not wait until the local competitions start the following year?

Exactly. I can't remember which states competed under the new 2.0 rules, but too many states are "1.0" winners and they will be going to the pageant, err, competition totally at a disadvantage.

If there was a male version of MA I would have competed in it. I'd even proudly wear a speedo on stage and strut. I would not feel that I was being 'objectified', and even if I were to be, what's the freaking big deal?? If you are trying to choose the 'ideal' representative, that should include appearance and fitness. IMHO

 

[Tinami Amori]

i say just pick the fattest, the ugliest, from the poorest town... and give her the crown, claiming she has the "best personality"..

 

[WillyElliot]

i say just pick the fattest, the ugliest, from the poorest town... and give her the crown, claiming she has the "best personality"..

I'm laughing but they actually might do just that!! "There she is, Miss Cankles and Cellulite"! lol

 

[Tinami Amori]

I'm laughing but they actually might do just that!! "There she is, Miss Cankles and Cellulite"! lol

if something does not change in America soon, it will be just as Kurt Vonnegut predicted in "Harrison Bergeron"

THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal
before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter
than anybody else.

Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was
stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the
211th, 212th, and 213 th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing
vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

In the year 2081, the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic.

Films: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL4GxeLSLzs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBcpuBRUdNs

Book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUwA59ItMOc

 

[WillyElliot]

Wow. Earlier this week the CFO resigned, as there doesn't seem to be the funding for the scholarships. And then to make matters worse the Chair of the Miss America Foundation abruptly resigned last night due to the CEO and Gretchen's shall we say "misleading" answers at their presser yesterday. It's amazing how dishonest or giving the appearance of dishonesty and deceit these two conduct themselves. I anticipate more people are recognizing the cancer that these two are to the program, and jump ship.

I'll predict that the pageant, oops sorry COMPETITION, will be cancelled/post-poned. I think ABC was really pissed off when Gretchen went on national tv and said that the SS event is now cancelled because ABC demanded it. A total lie. And now that there appears to be no money for scholarships, ABC might be able to get out of the contract. ABC cannot air a scholarship show without having the scholarship funds on the table. Maybe Gretchen will chip in from her FAUX/Ailes lawsuit money?

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe she's going about it all wrong, but wasn't the problem that these types of pageants were no longer raking in the ratings and have become increasingly irrelevant? Obviously there's something about the pageants that aren't speaking to people in the same way anymore.

Anyway, about the scholarship money and such, I remember Broadway actress Kristin Chenoweth talking about her experiences in the pageant scene (I believe she was runner-up for Miss Oklahoma and second-runner-up in Pennsylvania). She doesn't demean her experiences or anything but she said she found it funny the way people always use the scholarship money to try to justify having these pageants where in very competitive states where pageant culture is serious business, throughout the years, Chenoweth said she spent thousands upon thousands of dollars competing in pageants and training for them that the scholarship money that these contestants could win hardly makes a dent in what they had already spent to make it that far.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

Interesting about Kristin Chenoweth!

I also thought pageants in the US were irrelevant. I don't know anyone who watches them. The only time I watch is Miss Universe and that is just for those crazy national dress costumes. Those are fun. But I stop watching after that part. I'm a Project Runway fan and that is why those appeal to me.

If I were to redesign the program I'd add an escape room and an obstacle course of some sort. It's easy to be good looking - plastic surgery and money can do a lot! But to be good looking, agile and clever - that is just a whole lot more exciting.

 

[Seerek]

I think the move of the event back to September in 2013 was not to its favour - January was more ideal. My guess is that they'll try to last to the 100 year anniversary before fragmenting itself.

 

[ilovepaydays]

She doesn't demean her experiences or anything but she said she found it funny the way people always use the scholarship money to try to justify having these pageants where in very competitive states where pageant culture is serious business, throughout the years, Chenoweth said she spent thousands upon thousands of dollars competing in pageants and training for them that the scholarship money that these contestants could win hardly makes a dent in what they had already spent to make it that far.

I apologize for this going off topic, but couldn’t you making the same argument about kids being heavy into sports and trying to get NCAA scholarships? Especially for boys not in football and basketball - colleges are constantly cutting other sports for men due to finances and Title IX compliance.

What’s been amazing to me were the number of young women I knew who made decently well in pageants (at the County Fair, Miss “X” University, and state contest level) who didn’t do them until they were age 19-21 and did it for fun or because they had nothing to lose.

 

[VGThuy]

Chenoweth was talking about the Miss America track specifically. The scholarship money offered isn’t nearly as high as many of those NCAA full or partial scholarship offers. But it’s true for many sports in NCAA that are expensive to participate in.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

I went to a presentation and Patricia Murray was a speaker - http://www.patriciaannmurray.com/ She paid for flight school by winning Miss California! But it is like skating - only a handful make a lucrative career from it every year.

 

[Coco]

John Oliver's show had a segment on how a lot of these scholarships aren't paid out. That's all I remember, but he basically stopped short of calling Miss America 1.0 shady.

 

[Japanfan]

if something does not change in America soon, it will be just as Kurt Vonnegut predicted in "Harrison Bergeron"

[\QUOTE]

What did he predict?

I am an uber of dear, sweet Vonnegut, but did not read "Harrison Bergeron".

 

[WillyElliot]

John Oliver's show had a segment on how a lot of these scholarships aren't paid out. That's all I remember, but he basically stopped short of calling Miss America 1.0 shady.

It's VERY shady. I was friends with some pageant girls in college and they'd always win a local and then make it to state. The paperwork required to get even $250 from them for winning talent at their local and the time it took to jump through all the hoops wasn't worth it to them. And yes, Chenowith is right. My friends spent THOUSANDS each year to compete, what with wardrobe/gowns/makeup/travel/etc. They did it because they wanted to be MissState or MissAm, NOT for any scholarships. And many (most?) women don't even use the scholarship money so it's never paid out. That's the shady part. For years and years on the telecast they would say "Each year, $42 MILLION is made available for these contestants across the country" or some such nonsense. Thank god they stopped saying that. In actuality last year for example they only paid out around $300 THOUSAND. I don't even know where they got that $42M number either. So it's shady. And Gretchen and Regina are making it worse.

 

[NinjaTurtles]

I think the rise of Instagram has eaten into the potential contestant pool. The self-made model route is much more feasible now with social media. Plus, if you have enough followers you can be an influencer and make money off sponsored posts. The money and exposure that pageants once brought are more attainable now and theoretically don't require a monetary investment to start.

 

[MacMadame]

If Gretchen Carlson really thinks that the judges still won’t take what they think of the contestants’ physical appearance in their scoring, she’s a moron.

According to this article in the Washington Post, she says that "physical appearance and poise will still matter — just as they would for any job interview. But the job of Miss America — these days envisioned as a nation-traveling young role model and advocate — has never required wearing a swimsuit, so why should the audition?"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...term=.2522b4790c23&wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

I think my biggest complaint was this came out right before the state competitions started and maybe after some of the first states had been crowned. Not really fair to the contestants to change the rules mid season. If you want to eliminate swimsuit, change the way the scores are calculated, etc why not wait until the local competitions start the following year?

That was the big complaint that the 22 states who wrote the letter had. Not that the swimsuit competition was eliminated but that they can't figure out what the scoring is now in order for their contestants to prepare.

My POV is that the pageant has become increasingly irrelevant and ratings are down. They need to do something to shake up the event or watch it fade into oblivion.

The fact that they are having trouble getting scholarships isn't something that just happened the second it was announced there would be no swimsuit competition. Getting scholarships is a long, ongoing process and one of the justifications for suspending that part of the competition was that potential sponsors were turned off by the swimsuit portion. So the lack of scholarships happened first. And is a symptom of the overall problem - lack of relevancy and poor ratings.

Whether Gretchen Carlson is a good leader or not is a separate question. I think a better leader would have been able to make the exact same changes without half the pushback just by being more transparent and implementing some of the ideas better.