Minimum Total Element Scores (TES minimums) for ISU Figure Skating Championships 2020

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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60,484
Interesting, that currently eliminates a skater like Aurora Cotop and Dasa Grm for consideration for Worlds.
Grm is upset, understandably:
 

alchemy void

#justice4dasa
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21,802
This is bullshit.

Changing the minimums two thirds of the way into the season is INSANE. Completely unfair to so many skaters.

I thought the minimums were perfect as is, but if the ISU feels the need to raise them, it needs to be done at the start of the season.

This is a sport. Tell me, as an athlete, what I need to achieve to qualify for Worlds in August. That's fair. Not changing the goalposts in January.
 

Theoreticalgirl

your faves are problematic
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871
Completely agree @alchemy void. It seems very unusual to change it mid-season, after skaters have planned their competition and training schedules. I'm not saying they can't do it (it's in the rules apparently), but it feels like a totally shitty thing to do—especially for small fed skaters like Dasa Grm (who is justifiably upset).
 
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Jayar

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9,282
I always assumed changing it during the season meant LOWERING the score because the score might have been too high for a reasonable field of athletes to be entered into a given event. Making it higher is ridiculous. Let's hope those who had 29 and are otherwise named to compete at Euros or 4CCs are able to get the score at those events.
 

Erin

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9,417
I could understand this decision a bit more if the potential ladies field at Worlds was getting to be way too big and the ISU needed to reduce the field somehow. But I took a quick look and my initial estimate is that this will kick out at most, three ladies (Slovenia, Romania, and Spain), assuming they were not to get the minimum at another competition. Any other skaters affected are from countries where someone else has the minimum. So I’m not really sure what the point of the increase is then. Except to stress out the skaters who thought they had minimums and now don’t.
 
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misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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This is garbage. To RAISE the minimums, most of the way through the season, with minimal competition opportunities to get the new score remaining...that's terrible. The fcuk are you doing, ISU?
 

Orm Irian

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What a cruel thing to do so close to the cut-off date for Worlds minimums, when there's are so few competitions left those skaters who were qualified up till now could get the minimums at. There's barely any time left to register for the Bavarian Open and Dragon Trophy, too. Really bad choice, ISU.
 

Skate Talker

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7,334
iirc the minimums were altered fairly late in the season the first year they were instituted but can't recall any other changes.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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iirc the minimums were altered fairly late in the season the first year they were instituted
Yes, here's the thread in the Archives from February 2013: ISU has lowered the 2013 Worlds minimum scores (TES) for men, ladies & pairs
Further to ISU Communication No. 1742, item 7, ISU Communication 1767, item 7 and internal consultations among all competent ISU bodies, it was decided to revise the Minimum Total Technical Scores for the ISU World Figure Skating Championships 2013 as follows:

Men
SP 32.00 points (changed from 35.00)
FS 60.00 points (changed from 65.00)

Ladies
SP 26.00 points (changed from 28.00)
FS 46.00 points (changed from 48.00)

Pairs
SP 24.00 points (changed from 28.00)
FS 41.00 points (changed from 45.00)

Ice Dance
Short Dance 29.00 points (unchanged)
FD 39.00 points (unchanged)
 

Rukia

A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
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Ugh, I hate this. Increasing them this close to worlds is downright cruel.
 

misskarne

Handy Emergency Backup Mode
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What a cruel thing to do so close to the cut-off date for Worlds minimums, when there's are so few competitions left those skaters who were qualified up till now could get the minimums at. There's barely any time left to register for the Bavarian Open and Dragon Trophy, too. Really bad choice, ISU.
7 weeks until cutoff. And don't forget Euros cuts to 24 after the SP - so anyone at Euros had better hope they make the FS if they now need it.

The more I think about this the angrier I get. It's almost like they deliberately left it this late so those who have now been cut off had no chance.
 

thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
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4,754
Moves like this make waves. The ISU can’t have been ignorant of that fact. It makes me wonder if this was a cost saving move, one of necessity. Definitely a few thousand per skater. If it saves a warm up group, that could mean avoiding breaking a predetermined schedule and agreement with the venue. Keeping to that contract would be invaluable.

I definitely can’t see the ISU doing this for any reason other than necessary expediency. It’s so cruel on the surface, a PR and morale disaster, that they have to know of and are willing to bear the costs.
 

Erin

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Moves like this make waves. The ISU can’t have been ignorant of that fact. It makes me wonder if this was a cost saving move, one of necessity. Definitely a few thousand per skater. If it saves a warm up group, that could mean avoiding breaking a predetermined schedule and agreement with the venue. Keeping to that contract would be invaluable.
If that’s what they are aiming for, they screwed it up. By my count, there should still be 37 ladies at worlds with the new TES min vs 40 with the old TES min. It’s the same number of warmup groups!
 
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Jeschke

#teamtrainwreck #teamschott
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Who got knocked out besides Grm (for now)? :drama:
I checked myself.
These are the ladies having had the set of minimums berfore and are now missing parts/all:

Missing SP:
Bausback
Liinamae
Spours
Matos

Missing FS:
Han (retired)
Conti (skating pairs now)
Schaller
Takeno
Grm

Missing SP/FS:
Ceder
Lang
Sauter (retired?)
Lehman (retired)

So, if we check who 'qualified' internally for worlds, the one being shut out now will be: (Bausback), Matos, Grm, (Lang).
Totally necessary for potential 4 girls more :drama: (n)
 
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Erin

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@Jeschke, I also have Cotop (missing SP) impacted.

In the case of Bausback/Cotop and Lang, they likely won’t impact the number of skaters as there are other skaters from those countries with the minimums.
 
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thvudragon

Usova's Apprentice
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If that’s what they are aiming for, they screwed it up. By my count, there should still be 37 ladies at worlds with the new TES min vs 40 with the old TES min. It’s the same number of warmup groups!
Oh God. I was trying to come up with a reason where the ISU was acting rationally. If it doesn't save a warm-up group, I don't see the point of this action. Then the gain is just a few thousand dollars for the LOC while the costs are athlete & fan anger & resentment, institutional reputation costs, and the blow to morale for small federation athletes (and their empathetic competitors.)

I don't see how a rational actor can weigh these factors and make this decision. There has to be something we're missing, or the ISU is truly run by short-sighted fools who are practicing Magic 8-Ball Decision Making.
 

alchemy void

#justice4dasa
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21,802
I will be rooting so freaking hard for Matos and Grm at Euros; and hopefully one of Bausback/Cotop make it to 4CCs.

Avatar changes may be involved.
 

meggonzo

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7,541
I don't see how a rational actor can weigh these factors and make this decision. There has to be something we're missing, or the ISU is truly run by short-sighted fools who are practicing Magic 8-Ball Decision Making.
I wonder if they actually bothered to figure out how many skaters would be cut. You'd think someone from the ISU would be smart enough to post here and ask hypothetically, and they get the numbers/info for free within a day. :shuffle:
 

euterpe

Well-Known Member
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12,387
No wonder Dasa is mad.

At Worlds 2019, she achieved the new SP TES plus some, but her FS TES missed the new minimum by 0.17.
 

Aerobicidal

Inspired by Selections
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This whole situation is truly Grm.
You'd think someone from the ISU would be smart enough to post here and ask hypothetically, and they get the numbers/info for free within a day. :shuffle:
I think there was a poster like that on FSU at one point, but as far as I recall they were banned.
 

peibeck

Simply looking
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You'd think someone from the ISU would be smart enough to post here and ask hypothetically, and they get the numbers/info for free within a day. :shuffle:
It would be sad if someone making this kind of decision within the ISU had to come here and get the information. One would hope they'd have very good databases to be working from internally.

And as devastated as Grm may be, imagine Cotop being under immense pressure now to make the minimum before Worlds in her home country and right before their own nationals competition. Oy!!!
 

Vagabond

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It would be sad if someone making this kind of decision within the ISU had to come here and get the information. One would hope they'd have very good databases to be working from internally.
One would hope. But then again, the ISU somehow managed to offer China three entries instead of the correct number -- two -- into the Junior Pairs competition at the 2010 World Junior Championships and only realized its mistake after the draw for the Free Dance, when the Estonian couple had already wrongfully been deprived of a place in that phase of the competition.


I would be surprised if the ISU was any better at utilizing its databases now than it was then. 🤷‍♂️
 

peibeck

Simply looking
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I would be surprised if the ISU was any better at utilizing its databases now than it was then. 🤷‍♂️
Someone manages to get their statistical information for World Standings/Rankings/Personal Bests updated rather quickly after competitions, so it honestly shouldn't be that difficult to get the information. But, alas, yes we are speaking about the ISU and the fair amount of old coots who run it who probably aren't as tech savvy we we'd expect. :lol:
 

Rob

Beach Bum
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14,742
I think this is crazy for just one discipline. They knew ages ago how many qualified for Worlds 2019.
 

Seerek

Well-Known Member
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5,378
If the ISU was so intent on "capping" the singles events to 36 entries (2 zambonis), would total SP+FS TES be an suitable methodology?
 

yossalu

Active Member
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336
Matos was far short of the minimum score at Euros today. Grm qualified for the free so she still has a shot of hitting the necessary mark. This change hit her harder than any other skater since she continues to show her quality, including a silver medal at the Prague Ice Cup this season. She deserves a spot at Worlds so I've got my fingers crossed.
 

Orm Irian

Well-Known Member
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523
Matos was far short of the minimum score at Euros today. Grm qualified for the free so she still has a shot of hitting the necessary mark. This change hit her harder than any other skater since she continues to show her quality, including a silver medal at the Prague Ice Cup this season. She deserves a spot at Worlds so I've got my fingers crossed.
Me too. She was good today and I really want to see her get that 51 TES and waltz into Worlds despite them tomorrow.
 

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