Mass Murder at Pittsburgh Synagogue

[Japanfan]

He is not a normal president, so he makes outrageous suggestions, and his party approves of whatever he says or does.

I saw a video compilation of Trump endorsing violence - I don't think it was on this board, but could be wrong. Lots of takes of him saying stuff like "I'd punch him out".

He is both endorsing and normalizing violence for those with violent tendencies. It's mind-boggling to think that a POTUS would do this. And the implications are terrifying.

To makes things worse, this is a POTUS who has no compassion, hence no genuine compassion or care for the victims of violence (though he said the right things about the victims of the shooting). And of course he's so stupid and blind that he can't see how he might motivate people with violent tendencies to commit acts of violence.

 

[skatesindreams]

Yeah in this case, its trump more than the guns.

Trump proclaiming himself a "Nationalist"; as he did this week gives these terrorists tacit permission to act on their beliefs.
"If the President feels as we do"...

 

[hanca]

So another thread is turning into politics, president bashing etc. While I don’t disagree with some of things that were written, I don’t think the purpose of this thread was to rehash the discussion about the political situation.

 

[FiveRinger]

They just had a news conference announcing the victims. The youngest victim was a 54 year old man, the oldest was a 97 year old woman. Just disgraceful. I am just sickened over all of this. Prayers to the victims, their families, friends, members of the synagogue, and all of Pittsburgh.

 

[BlueRidge]

We live in an age of rising anti-Semitism and the need for armed protection at Synagogues and other Jewish institutions is a reality. All the cursing about guns in the world isn't going to change that. Ignoring the anti-Semitism in the equation and only focusing on guns isn't going to make it more likely that the US takes action to limit guns either.

The reality about the president's remark about armed guards is not that no one should suggest that Synagogues need armed protection but that when the president's only response to an appalling act of anti-Semitic violence is to say it could have been prevented if there had been an armed guard, we have a president who is not providing any leadership. A president should be speaking out against hate but this president has enabled anti-semites and he will not take responsibility let alone provide any leadership, in large part because it benefits him to not denounce extremism.

Here is a column that goes into some depth around the issue:
Trump doesn’t understand how anti-Semitism works. Neither do most Americans.

Trump’s contribution to the revival of anti-Semitism in American politics lies in his penchant for conspiracy theories — evident, for example, in the disgusting closing commercial of his 2016 campaign. It included dark insinuations about global forces, with photos of prominent Jewish figures: George Soros, Lloyd Blankfein and Janet Yellen. That commercial was an unambiguous and obvious appeal to anti-Semitism. If Nazi propagandists had seen it, they might have considered it an update of some of their own posters. Through his support for conspiratorially minded right-wing media figures, Trump has lent legitimacy to a paranoid and dangerous mode of thinking. He has associated it with the presidency of the United States, when it used to be the domain of fringe racists.

 

[gkelly]

Why are we not calling this what it is - a terrorist attack?

Some people are,
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/...l=morning-briefing&nlid=8345229220181028&te=1
including

Gab, a social network that bills itself as a free speech haven. The app, which grew out of claims of anti-conservative bias by Facebook and Twitter, is a popular gathering place for alt-right activists and white nationalists whose views are unwelcome on other social media platforms.

“Gab unequivocally disavows and condemns all acts of terrorism and violence,” the statement read.

I got this article through an e-mail subscription to the NY Times, which introduced this story
"1. Details are emerging in two attacks that have shaken the country."
followed by
"2. The second attack brought another kind of domestic terrorism to light." (about the mail bomber)

 

[skatesindreams]

So another thread is turning into politics, president bashing etc. While I don’t disagree with some of things that were written, I don’t think the purpose of this thread was to rehash the discussion about the political situation.

Where better to discuss?
This issue is too important to be lost in the "Trump Danger' thread.
Does the thread need to be moved to PI?

 

[BlueRidge]

Some people are,
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/...l=morning-briefing&nlid=8345229220181028&te=1
including



I got this article through an e-mail subscription to the NY Times, which introduced this story
"1. Details are emerging in two attacks that have shaken the country."
followed by
"2. The second attack brought another kind of domestic terrorism to light." (about the mail bomber)

I don't have a problem with calling it terrorism, but I think it might be more important to call it a hate crime. Terrorism does bring to mind international networks and may distract from what motivated this which was anti-Semitic hate that was boiled up in discussions on a rightwing internet site.

ETA: this article in the New York Times looks at the internet site that the killer posted to: On Gab, an Extremist-Friendly Site, Pittsburgh Shooting Suspect Aired His Hatred in Full

“Gab became their safe haven because it was actively recruiting the worst of the worst,” said Joan Donovan, a media manipulation researcher with the nonprofit organization Data and Society. “Gab’s users have complained of a global Jewish conspiracy to control the internet, where Gab is the only place online where they can network with one another.”

 

[Debbie S]

We live in an age of rising anti-Semitism and the need for armed protection at Synagogues and other Jewish institutions is a reality. All the cursing about guns in the world isn't going to change that. Ignoring the anti-Semitism in the equation and only focusing on guns isn't going to make it more likely that the US takes action to limit guns either.

Yes. And I'll also add that anti-Semitism is on the rise on both the right and the left (which the article touched on). Trump and the Reps need to recognize and take responsibility for their incendiary rhetoric and the crazies they've inspired (not that I have hope they will) but the Dems also need to examine the growing anti-Semitism in their party, particularly among so-called progressives.

Yes, I'm aware that this shooter was right-wing, not left, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is anti-Semitism on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[BlueRidge]

Yes. And I'll also add that anti-Semitism is on the rise on both the right and the left (which the article touched on). Trump and the Reps need to recognize and take responsibility for their incendiary rhetoric and the crazies they've inspired (not that I have hope they will) but the Dems also need to examine the growing anti-Semitism in their party, particularly among so-called progressives.

Yes, I'm aware that this shooter was right-wing, not left, but that doesn't negate the fact that there is anti-Semitism on both sides of the political spectrum.

Agreed. There are very disturbing trends especially on the far left. A great deal of anti-Semitism dresses itself up as anti-Zionism on the left.

 

[taf2002]

That hatred you spout is as bad as the shooter. Hatred is hatred no matter the expression....gun...ocen...car bom... suicide bomber. You are looking at the bathroom when it is the refrigerator that is broken.

This is the most stupid thing you've ever posted. It's not ok to hate that someone is so twisted that he killed 11 people he didn't even know? But yet a poster here is just as bad? You're being ridiculous, or maybe I should say, you're trolling to get a reaction.

So another thread is turning into politics, president bashing etc. While I don’t disagree with some of things that were written, I don’t think the purpose of this thread was to rehash the discussion about the political situation.

The political situation is entirely germane to the senseless violence that's going on. We have a president who incites violence.

BTW, re some of the posts above, automatic weapons are not legal in the US. Semi-automatics are, and the fact that a knowledgeable person can turn a semi into an automatic is (in the NRA's eyes) apparently beside the point.

 

[Vagabond]

And is that really what we want? Armed guards everywhere? Where would it end? Today, it was a synagogue. Before, it was a church in Texas. Before that, a bomb explosed in a Mosque in Minnesota. Before that, it was a church in South Carolina. So, are we going to post armed guards in front of every religious institution? And in front of schools? And in front of night clubs? And at concerts/in front of hotels? What about malls? Movie theaters? Opera houses? Public places? Universities?

From what I have read, the attacker on the church in Texas did not want to kill all Christians; he wanted to kill people. The attacker on the church in South Carolina certainly did not want to kill all Christians, though he may well have believed in killing all black Christians.

Yesterday's attack was specifically directed against Jews. The attack in Minnesota was specifically directed against Muslims, most of whom were of African, Middle Eastern, or Asian ancestry.

And if these attacks targeted against minorities had not happened in houses of worship, they could just as easily have happened elsewhere, like the supermarket attacked during the Charlie Hebdo incident in Paris or the nightclub in Orlando.

While terrorism in general must be addressed, so too must bigotry. The two do overlap, but they are not the same.

 

[Skittl1321]

They just had a news conference announcing the victims. The youngest victim was a 54 year old man, the oldest was a 97 year old woman. Just disgraceful. I am just sickened over all of this. Prayers to the victims, their families, friends, members of the synagogue, and all of Pittsburgh.

Not just a 97 year old woman; a 97 year old holocaust survivor.

Not that anyone deserves to be a victim of senseless violence. But to survive that, and then be killed during your worship; it's just truly horrific.

 

[PRlady]

I have to post this, from a former Soviet Jew now a reporter for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...oes-trump-bear-synagogue-shooting-pittsburgh/

Cc: @IceAlisa @Tinami Amori because you are also Soviet emigrants.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I have to post this, from a former Soviet Jew now a reporter for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...oes-trump-bear-synagogue-shooting-pittsburgh/

Cc: @IceAlisa @Tinami Amori because you are also Soviet emigrants.

Left wing propaganda. Please do not address me with such info again.

 

[Aussie Willy]

So another thread is turning into politics, president bashing etc. While I don’t disagree with some of things that were written, I don’t think the purpose of this thread was to rehash the discussion about the political situation.

Unfortunately because race and guns are involved it is going to turn into a political discussion. The situation and circumstances around it are not mutually exclusive. And the current climate surrounding the president contributes to that as well.

 

[Debbie S]

Unfortunately because race and guns are involved it is going to turn into a political discussion.

Jews are not a race.

 

[Ania]

I have to post this, from a former Soviet Jew now a reporter for the Washington Post: https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...oes-trump-bear-synagogue-shooting-pittsburgh/

Cc: @IceAlisa @Tinami Amori because you are also Soviet emigrants.

I am also a Soviet immigrant. Thank you for posting.

 

[Eden]

Kaddish prayer
!יהי זכרם ברוך
May the memory of the victims be blessed!

Ynet published the recording between the police officers during the shooting in Pittsburg.
Hundreds gather in Jerusalem in memory of Pittsburgh victims.

 

[Ania]

They just had a news conference announcing the victims. The youngest victim was a 54 year old man, the oldest was a 97 year old woman. Just disgraceful. I am just sickened over all of this. Prayers to the victims, their families, friends, members of the synagogue, and all of Pittsburgh.

I keep finding out that I'm 1 degree of separation from most of the people who died. My friends and colleagues lost loved ones. This still feels surreal. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. Our hearts are broken but our spirit is not.

 

[Ania]

Left wing propaganda. Please do not address me with such info again.

Arguments would be more impressive than snide knee-jerk comments.

 

[Simone411]

I believed in having a gun to protect myself with, and I did have one when a crazed stalker tried to break in through my window in my bedroom. What stopped him was my entertainment center in front of the bedroom window. I was around 32 years old when it happened.

It was around 10:30 p.m. on a Friday night, and I was on the phone with my sister-in-law when suddenly I heard a loud bang in the back of my home in my bedroom. I had a gun cabinet in my living room. When I heard the loud bang, I ran to the gun cabinet and got my 38 special. I was so scared that I was screaming while still on the phone that someone was trying to break in on me.

I ran to my bedroom and saw the curtain still moving where the man had tried to get in. He was gone that fast, but I still shot at the curtain because I knew the man would hear it and know I had a gun. My sister-in-law was telling me to call 911. I told her that I would when she got off the phone!

There were several police officers there, and found the ski mask in my back yard, and my window pane was lying right next to my house. About 30 minutes later, one of the police officers received a call about the guy that tried to break into my home. He had went to another home about 3 blocks away from where I lived.

The man tried to break into the lady's bedroom, and she heard him. She also had a gun, and when he was about half-way through the window, she stuck a gun to his head. She told him if he moved that she would blow his brains out.

The guy told the police that he had a list with 7 names of women that were brunette and he thought were attractive. His plan was to rape and then kill the women. I was the first on his list, and told the police that I messed his plans up when I started screaming and yelling.

He was up for parole about 10 years ago. They didn't let him have the parole because the crazed stalker told them that he would kill the women on his list if he got out. He's in prison for life and I thank God every single day for that.

While I was at Nurse Care, my home was robbed. The worst thing about the robbery was that the thieves stole my guns. They did catch three males that had robbed several homes during that time, but the guns that were stolen from my home were never found.

I decided after this not to get another gun. My home is like Fort Knox now, and there are iron bars on all the windows of my home. I have dead bolts on every door, and iron bars that go across the bottom of each door. I don't spend the night away from home. My family only lives about 20 miles from where I live, and it's only about a 15 minute drive to get there. So, I come home even during holidays.

If anyone broke into my home now, it would be a miracle if they did. I don't want anymore guns because somewhere out there is a crazy psycho that has my guns, and they could be anywhere.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Jews are not a race.

Okay I stand corrected and will be more specific.

Let's go race, religion and guns and add to the mix whatever other group or belief that might end up p*ssing someone off for no reason other than they don't like them.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Arguments would be more impressive than snide knee-jerk comments.

In order to have an "argument" one must express a desire to "argue", instead of having one's privacy invaded with unsolicited opinions. This is how it works:
- FSU is a sports forum where people come for sports. There are also political forums for politics. For those hellbent on talking politics in this sports forum, the admins created a special section, called "PI".
- When one wants a discussion on a subject one posts a topic, a question, an opinion, and then those WHO CHOSE to a) check politics on a sports forum, b) interested in the subject, c) want to engage, do engage..
- I did not check PI, the topic, nor posted any comments.
- PRlady INVADED MY PRIVACY by linking my name (which causes me to get a notification to get involved in the subject).
- She knows we have different opinions, and she knows i rarely check PI. Yet, she the eager beaver just could not resist to try to shove her opinion down my throat and made yet another attempt to change my mind (years for tries, no results.. ).

Had she posted a topic in general, and then waited for replies from THOSE WHO ARE INTERESTED, and if i replied as i did, then it would be wrong. But she made a point of getting me involved WITHOUT ME showing interest.

That's trying to convert me! Just like religion. If there is a church and i walk in, i expect "Jesus will save you" comments. If i am walking on the street, and someone shoves religious literature in my face - that person gets punched.

DON'T CALL US, WE'LL CALL YOU!

 

[once_upon]

Although I disagree (strongly) with @Tinami Amori on politics, I kind of agree she was drawn into this without her permission or previous participation in the thread. ETA, except I just did the same. Sorry TA.

I am very disturbed, shocked and whatever words one can use, that we continue to have hatred acted on with gun violence and death. WTF is wrong with the US? Why have we lost our moral compass? Why do gun rights supercede the right to life? Are guns more important than human life (obviously to some people they are, rhetorical question here)? I'm weary of the violence, hatred and condoning by the POTUS.

 

[hanca]

Well, people’s egos seem to take priority to thinking about victims and their families. Let’s take over the thread and argue how USA should be run. It seems that the the victims don’t matter as much as people’s passions to have their opinions heard about how the country should be run. No matter that we hear the same opinions from the sam people hundred times in the past threads.

 

[Sylvia]

'We will not be broken:' Emotional vigil held for victims of Squirrel Hill synagogue shooting: https://www.post-gazette.com/local/...ing-synagogue-pittsburgh/stories/201810280209

Rabbi Jonathan Perlman of the New Light Congregation said they lost three “pillars” -- dedicated men who always arrived early for Shabbat and would volunteer to help others across the city.

“That volunteerism would not be matched,” he said. “That extended beyond the borders of New Light Congregation. To working with the poor, and the hungry and the needy. These three men — they cannot be replaced. But we will not be broken. We will not be ruined by this event.”

 

[Ania]

It seems that the the victims don’t matter as much as people’s passions to have their opinions heard about how the country should be run. No matter that we hear the same opinions from the sam people hundred times in the past threads.

Would you care to hear opinions of those close to the victims, opinions of my community that has been devastated by this hate crime? Letter to President Trump from Pittsburgh Jewish Leaders

"... Our Jewish community is not the only group you have targeted. You have also deliberately undermined the safety of people of color, Muslims, LGBTQ people, and people with disabilities. Yesterday’s massacre is not the first act of terror you incited against a minority group in our country. President Trump, you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you stop targeting and endangering all minorities."

 

[Cachoo]

RIP to all of those lost and blessings to their families and friends. And I hope those injured recover. And a big THANK YOU to the men and women in uniform who responded and put their lives on the line. I understand some police officers were shot as well. This is yet another mass murder in the US. There are bigots everywhere unfortunately and we certainly have been seeing our bigots crawl out from under their rocks haven't we? Oddly enough the phrase I always remember is from a satirical news site (The Onion) who simply runs that same headline for each mass shooting: 'No Way to Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

The hell of it is I think the majority get it---I think the minority who make the laws don't. VOTE. And assure our Jewish friends that men like that ashhole are the exception rather than the rule. And btw...so you have a guard with a gun on the grounds. Do you know how easy it would be to surprise and shoot him or her? Or what if they are in the bathroom or talking to one of the guests? We are talking about something that happens in seconds. Cheeto...

 

[Ania]

Although I disagree (strongly) with [TA] politics, I kind of agree she was drawn into this without her permission or previous participation in the thread.

I think the accusation of 'invasion of privacy' was absurd. It was an invitation to a discussion. Like any other invitation it can be ignored or declined (without insults).