Mass Murder at Pittsburgh Synagogue

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Debbie S said:
Europe has had terrorist attacks involving vehicles, knives/box cutters, bombs....there are many ways people can be killed. I support gun control, but it's not the be-all and end-all. Hatred that fueled the attack today and other attacks against religious and cultural institutions needs to be addressed/monitored/prevented, along with mental illness and other social issues that cause gun violence.
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misskarne said:
It should not be necessary either!!!!!



It's the fcuking guns. Don't give me this shit. Every fcuking person with a brain can see it''s the guns. Why? BECAUSE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN ANYWHERE ELSE. But nooooooooooooo, jerkasses like you think your right to own a gun is more important than the right of innocent people to LIVE.
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Exactly right @misskarne

Why make it easier for the terrorists and psychos to carry out their insane intentions by giving them access to guns!!
 
Debbie S said:
Europe has had terrorist attacks involving vehicles, knives/box cutters, bombs....there are many ways people can be killed. I support gun control, but it's not the be-all and end-all. Hatred that fueled the attack today and other attacks against religious and cultural institutions needs to be addressed/monitored/prevented, along with mental illness and other social issues that cause gun violence.
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I agree with you, but it's the numbers of people that can be killed quickly with an automatic weapon, or semi-automatic. Much more than with a knife or box cutter. Of course bombs can kill a lot of people too, and motor vehicles. But the use of automatic weapons is something we should be able to do something about. There is no reason in the world for automatic or semi-automatic weapons to be legal and readily available to the general population.
 
Let's just name this thread what the **** is wrong with people and guns. This is disgusting. How can people be like this and if this was any other country, there would be a travel ban for the US.
This week there was a shooting of 2 blacks in a grocery store. The guy tried a black church before that. The hate is so thick you can feel it.
Mr Mctweetie pants is making it all about him. I am so sick about it also. He needs to go and take the white power assholes with him.
There is no reason to own a high power semi or automatic rifle. NONE. We aren't at war, there is no zombie apocalypse coming. There is no need for one to defend your home or hunt with. It's for maximum killing of humans. It's a status symbol for guys with small dicks and minds. It gives them power.
The NRA needs to go and go now.
Why am I so mad? Well, I covered mass murder for 20 years for a network. I was a field producer (the producer when they go live at the scene). I sat with survivors, their families, friends, the EMS, the police, the doctors afterwards. Some I have kept in touch with. Their lives are never ever the same. They don't sleep, their lives are messed up, they live in fear, nowhere is safe. They drink, take drugs, even kill themselves. Thoughts and prayers mean nothing. They feel the love (or it's unreal to them for a white) for a few days. Then the media and attention goes away and they are alone with their thoughts and nightmares. No amount of counselling will ever fix it.
One that I kept in touch with was 9 when the shooting happened in his church. I sat with him all night in a hotel room with his shoes with blood still on them. The hospital had given him a shirt and pants to wear. But he wanted to keep his shoes. He had played rock paper scissors with his cousin to see who sat next to the wall to plug in his gameboy. He won.
The gunman walked in and in a matter of 3 minutes had killed his cousin and 6 others. He said it got quiet and the gunman turned the gun on himself. He was 3 feet away from the man. Someone grabbed him and ran outside. At the time it didn't seem real. His brain couldn't process what was even happening.
He crashed and burned a month later. He used to want to be a news reporter or a vet. He is on mental disability in his 20s. He does drugs or drink. He stays away from his family. Every few months I will get an email from him. We used to talk on the phone for a few years. Same with his dad. I've never been able to walk away from a story and the people. After almost 30 years I still check up on a lot of them.
There are more stories. That one has always hit me. There are EMS workers that drink, quit and kill themselves. The what ifs?
All these people were doing is living their lives. Going to church, synagogue, school, shopping, dining, raising kids, at a concert. All that is life. And in a blink of an eye, their lives are changed forever.
Instead of thoughts and prayers lets go after ANYONE that supports the NRA, White power, Natzis. This is not okay. Report mental illness. Stop the war with the media. BTW I think the media should quit giving Trump or anyone with rhetoric any air time. Let the Fox news folks do this. Go after their advertisers. Everytime they give Trump or hate groups a minute of time, they give them power.
Okay, I'm done. WTF
 
mysticchic said:
Let's just name this thread what the **** is wrong with people and guns. This is disgusting. How can people be like this and if this was any other country, there would be a travel ban for the US.
This week there was a shooting of 2 blacks in a grocery store. The guy tried a black church before that. The hate is so thick you can feel it.
Mr Mctweetie pants is making it all about him. I am so sick about it also. He needs to go and take the white power assholes with him.
There is no reason to own a high power semi or automatic rifle. NONE. We aren't at war, there is no zombie apocalypse coming. There is no need for one to defend your home or hunt with. It's for maximum killing of humans. It's a status symbol for guys with small dicks and minds. It gives them power.
The NRA needs to go and go now.
Why am I so mad? Well, I covered mass murder for 20 years for a network. I was a field producer (the producer when they go live at the scene). I sat with survivors, their families, friends, the EMS, the police, the doctors afterwards. Some I have kept in touch with. Their lives are never ever the same. They don't sleep, their lives are messed up, they live in fear, nowhere is safe. They drink, take drugs, even kill themselves. Thoughts and prayers mean nothing. They feel the love (or it's unreal to them for a white) for a few days. Then the media and attention goes away and they are alone with their thoughts and nightmares. No amount of counselling will ever fix it.
One that I kept in touch with was 9 when the shooting happened in his church. I sat with him all night in a hotel room with his shoes with blood still on them. The hospital had given him a shirt and pants to wear. But he wanted to keep his shoes. He had played rock paper scissors with his cousin to see who sat next to the wall to plug in his gameboy. He won.
The gunman walked in and in a matter of 3 minutes had killed his cousin and 6 others. He said it got quiet and the gunman turned the gun on himself. He was 3 feet away from the man. Someone grabbed him and ran outside. At the time it didn't seem real. His brain couldn't process what was even happening.
He crashed and burned a month later. He used to want to be a news reporter or a vet. He is on mental disability in his 20s. He does drugs or drink. He stays away from his family. Every few months I will get an email from him. We used to talk on the phone for a few years. Same with his dad. I've never been able to walk away from a story and the people. After almost 30 years I still check up on a lot of them.
There are more stories. That one has always hit me. There are EMS workers that drink, quit and kill themselves. The what ifs?
All these people were doing is living their lives. Going to church, synagogue, school, shopping, dining, raising kids, at a concert. All that is life. And in a blink of an eye, their lives are changed forever.
Instead of thoughts and prayers lets go after ANYONE that supports the NRA, White power, Natzis. This is not okay. Report mental illness. Stop the war with the media. BTW I think the media should quit giving Trump or anyone with rhetoric any air time. Let the Fox news folks do this. Go after their advertisers. Everytime they give Trump or hate groups a minute of time, they give them power.
Okay, I'm done. WTF
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That hatred you spout is as bad as the shooter. Hatred is hatred no matter the expression....gun...ocen...car bom... suicide bomber. You are looking at the bathroom when it is the refrigerator that is broken.
 
This is juxtaposed with the pipe bomber, who was as comsumed with hate but thankfully was not able to kill anyone with his chosen method.

I do think we need to focus on the hate that is being stirred up. There is a rise in anti-Semitism in the US and we all remember when Trump said there were good people among the neo-nazis marching with tiki torches.
 
The shooter was focused on a Jewish group that advocates for refugees, HIAS. And he decided to act on his anti-Semitic hate and anti-immigrant hate in the midst of the president and many of his supporters whipping up hysteria about Central Americans traveling to the US to apply for asylum.

He could act on his hate and kill eleven because he could get a gun to do so, though, pipe bombs could go off and people do attack people with knives. The hate and the guns are both important factors.
 
AxelAnnie said:
The guns are not the problem..............it is the morons and hate mongers that are the problem. The guy tweeted his intentions.

Someone hated a group of people so much that he thought they should be killed. If not a gun.....that kind of hatred gives you an oven.
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The guns are the problem. If they were not so accessible people could not do this kind of thing. You eliminate the risk by removing the gun because that is the mechanism for causing the injury. You are not going to remove the morons because they will always exist but don't give them the opportunity to use this kind of mechanism.

This is basic safety theory.
 
AxelAnnie said:
That hatred you spout is as bad as the shooter. Hatred is hatred no matter the expression....gun...ocen...car bom... suicide bomber. You are looking at the bathroom when it is the refrigerator that is broken.
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Really? I love people, but I hate guns, I hate what guns do to people, I hate the venom that comes out of the right. I hate pussy grabbers, and rapist and child molesters. I hate people like Alex Jones and his fake actor venom.
I hate people think it's more important for their right to own an AK15 and a few school kids should die for that right. You should see some of the scary groups that are out there.
Yet, I believe people have a right to live free and not have to fear being killed.
Yeah, I am just like the shooter who is worried about his white self.
Have you ever seen someone who is perfectly innocent have their bodies blown apart from a bullet? I have. I'm sure I can find you a photo or 2 on the internet if I looked hard enough.
Have you ever spoken to a mom who had to identify her son after being shot.
I hate that we are getting immune to shootings
 
Aussie Willy said:
The guns are the problem. If they were not so accessible people could not do this kind of thing. You eliminate the risk by removing the gun because that is the mechanism for causing the injury. You are not going to remove the morons because they will always exist but don't give them the opportunity to use this kind of mechanism.

This is basic safety theory.
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I don't find it so easy to dismiss anti-Semitism and the hatred being fomented against refugees and immigrants. These are part of the picture along with the appalling availability of guns.
 
BTW recently a men's softball team was selling raffle tickets for a semi automatic rifle. After I pointed it out it was illegal they changed it to win a "protection tool". They sold 2000 tickets and gave away 2 rifles. It's very easy to get a gun. It was 2.00 a ticket.
The lady next door daughter held off police last summer with a gun. After she got out of the mental ward, they gave her her gun back.
 
AxelAnnie said:
That hatred you spout is as bad as the shooter. Hatred is hatred no matter the expression....gun...ocen...car bom... suicide bomber. You are looking at the bathroom when it is the refrigerator that is broken.
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:confused:

@mysticchik was expressing sadness about the loss of innocent lives to senseless gun violence.

She also said she was angry. I think that is an entirely reasonable emotion.

Hatred that leads one person to kill people is entirely different from hatred of/anger towards those who would hurt or kill innocent people.

So your post really makes no sense @AxelAnnie. You seem to be suggesting that one should feel love for those who would hurt or kill.
 
My family is safe but devastated. We live in this neighborhood. My parents walk there, my colleagues belong to this congregation, my kids went to music classes there when they were little, I gave a talk there last fall. I am devastated for everyone who was directly affected by this act of terror. My colleagues lost people they know in the shooting. There was a vigil tonight 3 blocks from my house. Pittsburgh came together, all faiths, all races, all ages.
 
“I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” - Elie Wiesel
 
mysticchic said:
“I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.” - Elie Wiesel
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Elie is right as always.
 
Japanfan said:
:confused:

@mysticchik was expressing sadness about the loss of innocent lives to senseless gun violence.

She also said she was angry. I think that is an entirely reasonable emotion.

Hatred that leads one person to kill people is entirely different from hatred of/anger towards those who would hurt or kill innocent people.

So your post really makes no sense @AxelAnnie. You seem to be suggesting that one should feel love for those who would hurt or kill.
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Never! And to infer that from my post is puzzling.
No one should own an assault rifle. I have said all this before.
I don't think anyone NRA included that a man...known to be a criminal, hater, social media hate spewer should have a gun.

The laws that protect dangerous people are part of the problem.

He chose a gun to make his statement. He could have used a car, a bomb or fire.

People stood by and did nothing. That man and his hatred and past behavior were all known. Yet he was allowed his rights. My heart breaks for the people honoring Shabbat and the mitzvah of the covenant were deprived of theirs.
 
AxelAnnie said:
Never! And to infer that from my post is puzzling.
No one should own an assault rifle. I have said all this before.
I don't think anyone NRA included that a man...known to be a criminal, hater, social media hate spewer should have a gun.

The laws that protect dangerous people are part of the problem.

He chose a gun to make his statement. He could have used a car, a bomb or fire.

People stood by and did nothing. That man and his hatred and past behavior were all known. Yet he was allowed his rights. My heart breaks for the people honoring Shabbat and the mitzvah of the covenant were deprived of theirs.
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You said my hatred was just as bad. How should one infer that?
 
ballettmaus said:
True. But three police officers were wounded. They were armed.
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They responded to a call. If they had been standing outside beforehand looking for anyone carrying semi-automatic weapon or even checking identification and comparing it with an approved visitor list (as happens in some places), the assailant would probably never even have attempted to do what he did.

I am not saying that that is what should be done, only that it could have averted the entire episode.

ETA: Many synagogues in this country routinely post someone in front to greet people on Shabbat and may also have one or more paid private security workers posted. I haven't seen any indication that the synagogue in Pittsburgh had either of these this morning, but perhaps it did.
 
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I am now just waiting for the first conspiracy theory to come out (has it?). Will probably find out about it next weekend when I visit my friend who is into them.
 
misskarne said:
What the fcuk is wrong with him!!??!?!?! What the fcuk is wrong with these gun lunatics? IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE ARMED GUARDS IN SCHOOLS/CHURCHES/GENERAL PUBLIC PLACES. FFS.
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What is wrong with all of them is that NRA has the republican party and even some democrats in their pockets. No matter how many innocent lives are taken, these so called leaders refuse to approve of common sense gun controls. Adding fuel to the fire, we now have a president who encourages violence and bigotry. He is not a normal president, so he makes outrageous suggestions, and his party approves of whatever he says or does. :(
 
Vagabond said:
They responded to a call. If they had been standing outside beforehand looking for anyone carrying semi-automatic weapon or even checking identification and comparing it with an approved visitor list (as happens in some places), the assailant would probably never even have attempted to do what he did.

I am not saying that that is what should be done, only that it could have averted the entire episode.
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Maybe you're right. Or maybe the shooter would have changed his plan accordingly. Conceal the weapon, disguise himself, fire at the officers first, choose a different target.

And is that really what we want? Armed guards everywhere? Where would it end? Today, it was a synagogue. Before, it was a church in Texas. Before that, a bomb explosed in a Mosque in Minnesota. Before that, it was a church in South Carolina. So, are we going to post armed guards in front of every religious institution? And in front of schools? And in front of night clubs? And at concerts/in front of hotels? What about malls? Movie theaters? Opera houses? Public places? Universities?

Yes, other countries have armed guards in front of synagogues. The thing is, it's not just synagogues that get attacked in the US.
 
Aussie Willy said:
I am now just waiting for the first conspiracy theory to come out (has it?). Will probably find out about it next weekend when I visit my friend who is into them.
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Oh Fox news had a guy on that said his source within the Guatemalan government told him Soros paid for this guy to do it.
Why do we need armed guards everywhere? I remember when kids had a 5 to 10 block area we could ride our bikes around. No metal detectors at schools, or hospitals.
If it came down to a person with a knife or a person with a gun, I'll take my chance with the person with a knife. I have a chance then. With a gun, you have no chance. With a semi or fully automatic weapon, you have no chance.
Using one to defend your home, you have a pretty good chance of killing or injuring one of your own family. Gun control NOW? My heart bleeds for these families.
 
The Ammosexuals and Deplorables like @AxelAnnie: Guns are our freedom! You can't take away our guns or you'll take away our freedom!

Actual People With Actual Brains: Security guards at schools, churches, museums, practically every public place, metal detectors everywhere, armed forces strolling around in a major city. Yeah. Sounds real fcuking free.
 
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