Love, Balls and Courting: Tennis V

[misskarne]

I’m with Serena. There is a history of policing women’s anger, especially black women’s anger and I’m glad she spoke out about this. I’ve seen much worse behavior from men in sports but they are usually praised for being passionate while women are shamed for the same thing.

This lie is actually kinda bothering me a lot. I look at the way the Australian sports press treats the players. Williams is portayed as a goddess and queen and blah blah blah, even after disgraceful displays like the weekend's. But if Nick Kygrios even so much as looks sideways at someone he's lambasted as a terrible brat who doesn't deserve to play elite tennis. The double standard is there but not the way Williams and her devoted flock think.

 

[Fan123]

Have attitudes towards coaching during matches changed? In the late 80s when Steffi Graf once got a warning for coaching from her father, there was a lot of anger from the other tennis players about what the Grafs were allegedly doing. Yet there was none of that when Hingis got her warnings in the early 2000s and also now with Serena as many seem to saying that coaching during matches should be allowed.

For me, it's not about whether coaching should be allowed or why some players get caught and others don't. The rule is the rule, and if you violate the rule, you risk being penalised. Some players and coaches feel the risk is totally worth it cuz they never get caught until now, self admittedly by Serena's coach as an example. It's impossible for umpires to catch all the sideline coaching since their focus is on the players and happenings on the court (that's why some say umpires are not consistent), so for Serena's coach to claim hypocrisy is silly when it was his (and her) fault.

 

[allezfred]

Seriously? Magnanimous and gracious?

I’m not defending what she did on court, but I would say she was at the victory ceremony.

 

[Lorac]

Wow - the WTA have decided that Serena's 3 warnings were sexist - unbelievable

http://www.wtatennis.com/news/wta-statement-ceo-steve-simon-2018-us-open-womens-final

NEW YORK, NY, USA - On Sunday, September 9, WTA CEO Steve Simon said: "Yesterday’s US Open final resulted in the crowning of a deserving new champion, Naomi Osaka. The WTA applauds Naomi for her tremendous accomplishment.

"Yesterday also brought to the forefront the question of whether different standards are applied to men and women in the officiating of matches. The WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men vs. women and is committed to working with the sport to ensure that all players are treated the same. We do not believe that this was done last night.

"We also think the issue of coaching needs to be addressed and should be allowed across the sport. The WTA supports coaching through its on-court coaching rule, but further review is needed.

"Yesterday’s match showcased one of tennis’s new stars as well as one of the greatest players of the game. We look forward to more thrilling matches between these great athletes and hope that what we all witnessed yesterday never happens again."

This is utter garbage - Serena had 3 warnings as per the rule book and yet the WTA feel she was punished for being a woman How insulting to Carlos Ramos who was just applying the rules - and has done for a long time it's just most people get the first warning and calm down - and had to put up with Serena screaming he was a liar and thief at him whilst remaining remarkably calm.

And there are people on social media saying this win for Naomi has to have an asterix applied to it as it wasn't a fair win. Give me a break

I saw an interview with Naomi and she said she wasn't sure what was going on between Serena and Carlos as she was focused on her own game. She then said she 'thinks this is still a win' Again WTF - she is still unsure if this is a valid win because of all the furore around Serena. Naomi kicked Serena off that court and deserved the win but she will always have a little part of her that wonders if it really is valid - disgusting from the WTA. Selling out a new star in favour of Serena - it leaves a bad taste in the mouth unfortunately.

 

[gk_891]

Wow - the WTA have decided that Serena's 3 warnings were sexist - unbelievable

http://www.wtatennis.com/news/wta-statement-ceo-steve-simon-2018-us-open-womens-final



This is utter garbage - Serena had 3 warnings as per the rule book and yet the WTA feel she was punished for being a woman How insulting to Carlos Ramos who was just applying the rules - and has done for a long time it's just most people get the first warning and calm down - and had to put up with Serena screaming he was a liar and thief at him whilst remaining remarkably calm.

And there are people on social media saying this win for Naomi has to have an asterix applied to it as it wasn't a fair win. Give me a break

I saw an interview with Naomi and she said she wasn't sure what was going on between Serena and Carlos as she was focused on her own game. She then said she 'thinks this is still a win' Again WTF - she is still unsure if this is a valid win because of all the furore around Serena. Naomi kicked Serena off that court and deserved the win but she will always have a little part of her that wonders if it really is valid - disgusting from the WTA. Selling out a new star in favour of Serena - it leaves a bad taste in the mouth unfortunately.

I'm losing a lot of respect for tennis in general. I really hope Serena can make this right by issuing apologies so all this garbage can stop.

 

[Fan123]

I'm losing a lot of respect for tennis in general. I really hope Serena can make this right by issuing apologies so all this garbage can stop.

I would even go further to have her admit to cheating (unlikely, I know, despite the video).

 

[skatesindreams]

The ESPN commentators said, following the match, that coaching from the boxes; via hand signals, is common, and should be legal, since it isn't going to disappear. They drew the line at giving verbal "advice".

 

[gk_891]

The ESPN commentators said, following the match, that coaching from the boxes; via hand signals, is common, and should be legal, since it isn't going to disappear. They drew the line at giving verbal "advice".

Maybe it should be legal. But it isn't so Ramos rightfully gave her a warning.

 

[skatesindreams]

Maybe it should be legal. But it isn't so Ramos rightfully gave her a warning.

I'm not disagreeing with you; simply mentioning something which hadn't been discussed here.

 

[Fan123]

The ESPN commentators said, following the match, that coaching from the boxes; via hand signals, is common, and should be legal, since it isn't going to disappear. They drew the line at giving verbal "advice".

I just watched Poppy and Christine Brennan on CNN, your favorite "news" source. As predicted, such fake, unfair, and selective reporting. They didn't provide the other point of view, that the game penalty was the result of the previous 2 code violations.

Coaching at grandslams shouldn't be allowed, per the rules. Serena and her coach knew that going in, and it's their fault that they took the risk on being caught on TV. Then blaming Ramos, and causing Osaka to question her win is disgusting...then brainwashing the media and some players to side with her, cuz of sexism is misappropriated.

 

[skatesindreams]

I just watched Poppy and Christine Brennan on CNN, your favorite "news" source.

I simply share information, Fan123
Feel free to scroll past my posts, if you like.

 

[nylynnr]

The bottom line is, Ramos is tough on men, too. Both Nadal and Djokovic have gotten into it with him at the French and Wimbledon, respectively. The difference was they didn't carry on, and on, and on, referencing their children and making a cultural event of it. They blew off steam and went about their business. IMO, if Williams had been winning the match, she would have done the same.

 

[twinsissv]

Serena was clearly unfairly treated by the umpire. Without that interference she might have played much better and may be even won. I cant believe that some people are criticizing her instead of the umpire. It seems that umpire did not want Serena to break any records (Margaret Court's?). He should be made to explain and may be even suspended for ruining what could have been a great women's final. I have no problem with the crowd booing him.

I am seeing a lot of sexism in some of the posts here. Male players whine and question calls all the time, without any consequences. Serena has confidence like any top athlete. They need it in order to win. It does not mean she feels entitled. She is the winningest woman in tennis in the modern era, but she gets slammed. They would not dare do that to Nadal or Federer or Djokovic.

According to yesterday's news, Nadal and Djokovic have both complained about some of his calls (and other umpires as well no doubt). I guess that negates the "sexist" accusation. Or maybe the top superstars (and their coaches) shouldn't be called out for any violations? Oh...really? Big disappointment.

 

[morqet]

The ESPN commentators said, following the match, that coaching from the boxes; via hand signals, is common, and should be legal, since it isn't going to disappear. They drew the line at giving verbal "advice".

I know it's legal on the WTA tour outside the slams, but I wish it wasn't, firstly because part of what makes tennis so interesting is the mental side of it and the ability of an individual to figure out how to change strategy on their own, and secondly because only the top 50-70 players typically can afford to have their coaches travelling with them full time, so it's not an advantage available to everyone.

 

[twinsissv]

Congratulations to Naomi Osaka!

Congratulations, young lady! You won and you also carried yourself with dignity and grace. The world of tennis thanks you for that.

 

[Lorac]

Well finally the ITF come out with a statement defending Carlos Ramos - it took them long enough!!

https://twitter.com/ITF_Tennis/status/1039192554821038081

And I read on another board that he was paid just $450 for the privilege of sitting in that chair to be abused, berated and have his character assassinated by a woman who is worth millions and was going to take home $1,750,000 on Saturday night. No way in hell is that worth it!!

 

[Lacey]

I hope all of the US major news networks and talk shows pick up on this, LOUDLY.

 

[mollymgr]

Exactly. Ramos calls out all the high profile players, men more often than women. The WTA doesn't want to start another controversy. At this point, if anyone even dares to criticize Serena for her actions, she (or the media) is going to say they are racist, sexist, ageist, anti-motherhood, working mother, discriminated because she is high profile, and who knows what else. People don't realize that playing a false victim is also a form of bullying.

 

[gk_891]

Well finally the ITF come out with a statement defending Carlos Ramos - it took them long enough!!

https://twitter.com/ITF_Tennis/status/1039192554821038081

And I read on another board that he was paid just $450 for the privilege of sitting in that chair to be abused, berated and have his character assassinated by a woman who is worth millions and was going to take home $1,750,000 on Saturday night. No way in hell is that worth it!!

It did indeed take them way too long. Maybe this will shut some people up. It's amazing that some people think that Serena should be granted nothing but special treatment, special rights, special privileges, and special consideration rather than anything remotely fair or equal because she's a woman. It's really vile stuff.

 

[Bellanca]

The fines should be more significant than they currently are. If you hit them where it hurts the most, in their pocketbook, athletes acting out to advance an agenda will likely think twice before doing it again.

 

[mollymgr]

The fines should be more significant than they currently are. If you hit them where it hurts the most, in their pocketbook, athletes acting out to advance an agenda will likely think twice before doing it again.

I don't think fines matter in a sport like tennis. Suspension would be the route to go, if you want to truly deter people from such behavior.

 

[skatesindreams]

Martina's perspective:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/...icle&region=Footer&contentCollection=Trending

 

[Bellanca]

I don't think fines matter in a sport like tennis. Suspension would be the route to go, if you want to truly deter people from such behavior.

Good point! Any money lost could be recovered by signing another endorsement deal, anyway. Suspension sounds good. A long suspension.

 

[skatingguy]

I don't think fines matter in a sport like tennis. Suspension would be the route to go, if you want to truly deter people from such behavior.

To put Serena's fine in perspective, she earned 1.85 M for making the US Open final.

Not to compare Serena's behaviour to others, but as an example of players who have been punished for poor behaviour on court is Nick Kyrgios was suspended for 8 weeks two years ago.
http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2016/10/atp-announces-suspension-fine-for-nick-kyrgios/61857/

 

[mollymgr]

Martina is right. What's right is right, what's wrong is wrong. Doesn't matter if you are male or female. The human standards of civility are applicable to everyone.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Players get warned often, men and women, about the coaching. The player and coach stops and there is not much fuss.

Serena wouldn't do what other players do. She had to start a circus. That was the difference between other warnings and this one. Not the gender of the player.

 

[ilovepaydays]

ESPN’s Will Cain weighs in - and is pretty spot on.

DANG. And Cain is pretty sensitive to gender/race issues.

 

[becca]

I loved Martina’s comments. She is right and I think in all aspects it shouldn’t be about what I can get away with but rather is my behavior right.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...braces-naomi-osaka-after-her-us-open-win.html

This is very sweet. Apparently they are loving her manners and her beautiful conduct during that ordeal.

 

[ioana]

I know it's legal on the WTA tour outside the slams, but I wish it wasn't, firstly because part of what makes tennis so interesting is the mental side of it and the ability of an individual to figure out how to change strategy on their own, and secondly because only the top 50-70 players typically can afford to have their coaches travelling with them full time, so it's not an advantage available to everyone.

Believe you mean on-court coaching is legal on the WTA tour since box coaching gets called for violations plenty of times on tour. It's very true the on court coaching option tends to widen the gulf between players who have financial backing/success and those who don't, but it can sometimes make for entertaining OCC. (scroll down for vid)

https://www.digisport.ro/tenis/vide...sa-totul-s-a-incheiat-cu-hohote-de-ras-156828

Bogdan and Melichar were doubles partners in Acapulco and you can have them credentialed as your coach of record for the tournament. "That was good 17-minute warm-up" after a 0-6 set . Nicole Melichar is a top 20 doubles player now.

 

[Fan123]

Serena really makes tennis look bad. No other tennis player acts this way for the entire half of the match! The cheat, lies, and anger...and expect little girls and boys to look up to her?!