Love, Balls and Courting: Tennis V

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,155
What happened to Serena was sexism, without a doubt. I am glad that some other players are calling it for what it is. Billie Jean King had already tweeted her support, condemning sexism in tennis. In this article, many male players have said that they said worse things to Ramos, but they were not penalized; just warned.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/serena-williams-u-s-open-loss-may-be-the-grossest-example-of-sports-sexism-yet/
It also seems like Billie Jean King has changed her stance on this issue a bit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/serena-line-both-sides-share-blame-says-king-005955475--ten.html

I don't agree with her opinion that Ramos only should've given Serena a soft warning though. He wouldn't do that with the male players so I don't see why he should treat Serena differently just because she's a woman. Maybe some are suggesting this because they know Serena has a tendency to fly off the handle and make a huge spectacle of things.
 

Fan123

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,153
It also seems like Billie Jean King has changed her stance on this issue a bit.

https://sports.yahoo.com/serena-line-both-sides-share-blame-says-king-005955475--ten.html
I don't agree with her opinion that Ramos only should've given Serena a soft warning though. He wouldn't do that with the male players so I don't see why he should treat Serena differently just because she's a woman. Maybe some are suggesting this because they know Serena has a tendency to fly off the handle and make a huge spectacle of things.
BJK is so wrong on this one. Since when has a “soft warning” been part of the protocal? It wouldn’t have helped to diffuse an already bat-crazy Serena. Ramos was calm and collective. She has a history of going off the rails with female and male umpires; she’s up there with John McEnroe. For BJK to have said Serena didn’t know she was handed a first violation is absurd! Serena chose to ignore the warning. I’m beginning to think she really needs to have anger management therapy before being allowed to play again, and stop with all her lies. Here’s another video on her denial, “I didn’t say I will kill you!!!” at the 2009 US Open match vs Kim:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTc-gv8tNWQ&t=947s

Go to the 15:37 mark, you can hear someone from the audience immediately said, “Yes you did!”, among all the noise. She never owns up to her lies, and worse, blames others.
 

skatingguy

Golden Team
Messages
5,469
BJK is so wrong on this one. Since when has a “soft warning” been part of the protocal? It wouldn’t have helped to diffuse an already bat-crazy Serena. Ramos was calm and collective. She has a history of going off the rails with female and male umpires; she’s up there with John McEnroe. For BJK to have said Serena didn’t know she was handed a first violation is absurd! Serena chose to ignore the warning. I’m beginning to think she really needs to have anger management therapy before being allowed to play again, and stop with all her lies. Here’s another video on her denial, “I didn’t say I will kill you!!!” at the 2009 US Open match vs Kim:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTc-gv8tNWQ&t=947s

Go to the 15:37 mark, you can hear someone from the audience immediately said, “Yes you did!”, among all the noise. She never owns up to her lies, and worse, blames others.
I believe what she said to the linesperson was 'I'm going to f***ing shove a f***ing tennis ball down your f***ing throat. So not technically a death threat, but I don't know how anyone would survive having a tennis ball in their throat.
 

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,511
I don't follow tennis closely at all but this was kind of hard to escape.

I don't know if the language skatingguy mentioned Williams used us common/used by other players who lose their temper on the court. But one way or another I find it highly inappropriate and going far beyond being under a lot of pressure and losing your cool.

It also seems that a lot of comments that I'm seeing on the internet like to ignore that this particular umpire has a history of being strict and that Williams has a history of making a scene when she's behind at the US Open.

There certainly seems to be sexism in tennis (I mean, come on, a full-body suit is offensive? To whom? And why? And where's the difference to a woman wearing a skin-tight shirt and a skirt that doesn't cover up anything?) and from what I've read, there seems to be a problem about enforcing this particular rule. But I think they're problems which have to be viewed separately and they don't seem to have anything to do with what happened to Williams this time.
The impression that she is giving me right now is that she saw an opportunity to cry sexism even though it was without merit but she didn't care and she just played that card because she knew others would pick up on it and they'd side with her. And what annoys me the most is that I'm reading so many comments that suggest that they did without looking at the overall picture. Sure, if I look at the overall calls of coaching then it looks like sexism. If I look at this particular umpire though, it doesn't. Like I said, I don't doubt that there is sexism in tennis - where isn't any? - but it's not sexism each and every time and blindly following Williams' claim isn't helping anyone.
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,155
I don't follow tennis closely at all but this was kind of hard to escape.

I don't know if the language skatingguy mentioned Williams used us common/used by other players who lose their temper on the court. But one way or another I find it highly inappropriate and going far beyond being under a lot of pressure and losing your cool.

It also seems that a lot of comments that I'm seeing on the internet like to ignore that this particular umpire has a history of being strict and that Williams has a history of making a scene when she's behind at the US Open.

There certainly seems to be sexism in tennis (I mean, come on, a full-body suit is offensive? To whom? And why? And where's the difference to a woman wearing a skin-tight shirt and a skirt that doesn't cover up anything?) and from what I've read, there seems to be a problem about enforcing this particular rule. But I think they're problems which have to be viewed separately and they don't seem to have anything to do with what happened to Williams this time.
The impression that she is giving me right now is that she saw an opportunity to cry sexism even though it was without merit but she didn't care and she just played that card because she knew others would pick up on it and they'd side with her. And what annoys me the most is that I'm reading so many comments that suggest that they did without looking at the overall picture. Sure, if I look at the overall calls of coaching then it looks like sexism. If I look at this particular umpire though, it doesn't. Like I said, I don't doubt that there is sexism in tennis - where isn't any? - but it's not sexism each and every time and blindly following Williams' claim isn't helping anyone.
I agree with this big time. I do not doubt that Serena has faced a ton of sexism and racism throughout her career. But I fail to see how what happened on Saturday was an example of that. It wasn't. This umpire applied the rules just like he always does.

And King's backpeddling is kind of amusing, especially since she still asserts that Ramos should've handled it differently, thus implying that he should've granted Serena special consideration rather than equal or fair consideration. Really disappointing all the way around. I'm glad that players like Evert, Carillo, and Navratilova are being more honest.
 

Fan123

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,153
I agree with this big time. I do not doubt that Serena has faced a ton of sexism and racism throughout her career. But I fail to see how what happened on Saturday was an example of that. It wasn't. This umpire applied the rules just like he always does.

And King's backpeddling is kind of amusing, especially since she still asserts that Ramos should've handled it differently, thus implying that he should've granted Serena special consideration rather than equal or fair consideration. Really disappointing all the way around. I'm glad that players like Evert, Carillo, and Navratilova are being more honest.
I agree! Furthermore, I think it's counterproductive to conflate racism or sexism with this match, when it's not about that at all. It comes across as less sincere; doesn't help when she was caught lying.

With some talks about umpires boycotting her future matches, when is her next one? Is she qualified to be top 8 in the year end tournament?
 
Last edited:

Aceon6

No air conditioning here
Messages
17,627
Alex Shaunessey weighed in. She says the ump is notoriously tough and that a reasonable player would shut up after any warning. BTW, she loves Serena and just thought that Serena lost it this time, most likely from the stress of being down.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
Messages
14,686
If the rules are the rules and enforced universally, how can an ump be harsh?

Hmmmm
 

gk_891

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,155
If the rules are the rules and enforced universally, how can an ump be harsh?

Hmmmm
It's like I mentioned before. Many people think Serena should've received special rights, special privileges, and special concessions. If she receives equal consideration as opposed to special consideration, then it's sexist (according to some people anyways).
 

Fan123

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,153
I wonder if Billie Jean King and Katrina Adams are walking back on their earlier comments because more people are beginning to see Serena's more at fault. I have been reading many online comments of various news articles and social media, about 80% of them are negative toward Serena. And with some umpires thinking about boycotting Serena's future matches, maybe BJK and KA are feeling the heat too? I had friends and fellow teammates attended the match live, thought Serena handed herself beautifully immediately after the 1st warning, but were confused on her continuing outbursts after she smashed her racquet. After a day of seeing the whole drama unfolded and explained on TV, they now understand why Ramos gave Serena the game penalty. They felt Osaka had the momentum to take it all the way after breaking Serena 5-3.
 
Last edited:

Lacey

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,988
All tennis athletes are schooled in the art of good sportsmanship. It's a really big part of learning the game. Serena knows what it is to be a graceful winner as well as lovely loser. Outside of using the unbearable heat all week as an excuse for bad behavior, it was more of an excuse for bad playing. So what really was up with Serena?

I think Serena was worried about this US Open Final match more than any other competition previously. I think she unfortunately felt, having gone through childbirth, in her case with a couple of hiccups, that she had to prove she could play and win and be a mother and therefore be what in her opinion was a miracle woman doing it all. I say good for her for what she has done, but also want to remind her it's ok to be normal, there are lots of women/mother heroes who have not always won, who in fact have lost, and it's better to let a loss slide off one's back--to try again or to retire, whatever is one's choice. And no one ever said it would be easy for her or for any working mother in any job anywhere. We did not expect anything of her, perhaps she expected too much of herself.

Technically it was Serena's coach, not her, giving the hand signals, he even admitted it on tv to Pam. But she saw them. He most definitely was telling her to move up on to the net and she did. Serena couldn't help but look in her coach's direction if she was standing in the correct set up position. And she heard the first offense ruling but I think tried to ignore it as if, well if I don't acknowledge it, perhaps it will go away.

As a tennis athlete, Serena knows the penalty for slamming and breaking one's racket, so no surprise there. #2.

The referee was 100% in line with the rules for the game penalty for the third offense, as with all of them.

There was no sexism here, sorry there was not. In fact Serena was caught with her hand in the cookie jar being a bad sport because she was losing and trying to bluff it off. Serena was losing and was trying to take the attention off the person who was winning, that precious young Osaka, and get it back on herself. She hoped when things calmed down that then she could win. But her decisions all backfired on her. I believe she apologized to her opponent at the presentation when the horrible crowd wrongly booed as if Serena had been punished. What she should have said was, there was no sexism here, but rather you were the better opponent, you deserved the win even without my loss of the penalty game. I was wrong to take attention from your excellent match. My behavior was bad, no atrocious, I am sorry, and I apologize to you, to the umpire, referees, the crowd and tv fans.
 
Last edited:

Fan123

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,153
All tennis athletes are schooled in the art of good sportsmanship. It's a really big part of learning the game. Serena knows what it is to be a graceful winner as well as lovely loser. Outside of using the unbearable heat all week as an excuse for bad behavior, it was more of an excuse for bad playing.

I think Serena was worried about this US Open Final match more than any other competition previously, not that she has always been a good sport before. I think she unfortunately felt, having gone through childbirth, in her case with a couple of hiccups, that she had to prove she could play and win and be a mother and therefore be what in her opinion was a miracle woman doing it all. I say good for her for what she has done, but also want to remind her it's ok to be normal, there are lots of women/mother heroes. It's ok to not always win, in fact to lose, and it's better yet to let a loss slide off one's back--to try again or to retire, whatever is one's choice. And no one ever said it would be easy for her or for any working mother in any job anywhere. We did not expect anything of her.

Technically it was Serena's coach, not her, giving the hand signals, he even admitted it on tv to Pam. But she saw them. He most definitely was telling her to move up on to the net and she did. Serena couldn't help but look in her coach's direction if she was standing in the correct set up position. And she heard the first offense ruling but I think tried to ignore it as if, well if I don't acknowledge it, perhaps it will go away.

As a tennis athlete, Serena knows the penalty for slamming and breaking one's racket, so no surprise there. #2.

The referee was 100% in line with the rules for the game penalty for the third offense, as with all of them.

There was no sexism here, sorry there was not. In fact Serena was caught with her hand in the cookie jar being a bad sport because she was losing and trying to bluff it off. Serena was losing and was trying to take the attention off the person who was winning and get it back on her. She hoped when things calmed down that then she could win. But her decisions all backfired on her. I believe she apologized to her opponent at the presentation when the horrible crowd wrongly booed as if Serena had been punished. What she should have said was, not there was sexism here, but rather you were the better opponent here, you deserved the win even without my loss of the penalty game. I was wrong to take attention from your excellent match. My behavior was bad, no atrocioous, I am sorry, and I apologize to you, to the umpire, referees, the crowd and tv fans.
Bravo! You should be Serena's PR person.
 

mollymgr

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,712

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,426
Naomi is continuing to kick made the finals in her next tournament in Japan. She is the first person to do it after met maiden gram slam since 2012. She could be the real deal only 20.
 

ks777

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,920
I have been following Naomi Osaka since she was 16yo. She has improved so much with her coach Sascha Bajin.
I still can't believe she on the US open already. I knew she might win someday but didn't think it was gonna happen this soon.
 

peibeck

Simply looking
Messages
25,323
If the rules are the rules and enforced universally, how can an ump be harsh?

Hmmmm
Because the rules are NOT enforced universally? That's what the issue really boils down to, regardless of all the :drama: people spew on both sides.
 

becca

Well-Known Member
Messages
19,426
Because the rules are NOT enforced universally? That's what the issue really boils down to, regardless of all the :drama: people spew on both sides.
But I think when it comes to humans it will never be universally enforced.
For example some people are more strict than others. This particular guy is more strict.

Second sometimes you handle a situation and think next time I will do it differently.
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
58,543
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/tennis/andy-murray-out-of-australian-open-as-gutsy-comeback-falls-short-1-4856146
Three days ago, Andy Murray was in tears. He knew he could not win the Australian Open, he wondered whether he could get through a match. His career was soon to be over and he could not bear that thought any more than he could bear the pain from his damaged right hip.
But then, on a balmy night at a packed Melbourne Arena, Murray did what Murray does best: he simply refused to give in. Hobbling from the off, he fought and he battled, he roared and punched the air – he could not find a way to beat Roberto Bautista Agut but, for four hours and nine minutes, he gave the struggle every ounce of strength and passion he could muster. The Spaniard won the match 6-4, 6-4, 6-7, 6-7, 6-2 but Murray had won the day.
 

Fiero425

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,761
Murray. :fragile:

And Aga Radwanska retired during the off-season. My favs are dropping like flies. :wuzrobbed
I was more a fan of Aga since that truly was all she could do was retrieve and play a very defensive game! Murray could have been a little more aggressive and finish off points sooners! He broke down on his own by playing 30 yards behind the baseline and allowing nobodies and never-weres to run his arse to death from the 1st round on! Just like the AO this year, he allowed himself to get down by 2 sets to LOVE! That's not how you last a long time like Roger Federer! Nadal has the same problem going on; breaking down like an old end table! He'll be replacing his hips as well! :rolleyes: :judge: :yikes:
 

Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
Messages
9,002
Aussie open Rd 3 action will feature Caroline Wozniaki and Maria Sharapova. I can't wait to see the match (and then the press conference). Nadal looked good today, but Federer could have been in trouble if Evans took his chances.
 

Domshabfan

Lady Hale's Brooch
Messages
9,002
Masha Sharapova has beaten Wozniaki in 3 sets, good win for Maria. Wozniaki world ranking will at best be 9th in world now, very likely to drop further as other players move further into second week.
 

WillyElliot

Tanning one day, then wearing a winter coat today.
Messages
662
So Serena's QF against Pliskova is in two hours. I sooooo want her to get to 24 (I'd also love it if she then takes either FO, W, or USO.) Just get this hurdle over with Serena!!!!
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top