Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

Xallie said:
But how long do therapists have to keep their notes? They're not even required to take notes, are they?
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Likely depends on where the therapist practices. In Ontario therapists are required to keep notes for 10 years. ETA - 10 years after the patient stops seeing the therapist so a therapist could have notes that are much older.
 
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Debbie S said:
As Colonel Green said, there are professional org (and insurance reimbursement) requirements for note-taking. Usually the min requirement is 5 years for saving, but many save records for longer than that.
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If she learned that the statute of limitations had expired after talking to a therapist, which was my understanding from the article, that’s more than five years after the rape occurred and therefore very possibly less than five years ago. There’s probably a decent chance those records still exist. Depending on the timing, the level of detail documented in the records, etc., that could be helpful.

Private Citizen said:
SC’s response was inept and shameful, but I don’t think they have enough to suspend if what’s reported is the totality of the evidence against Sorensen.
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I agree, and since they’re not the organization tasked with investigating this, there’s probably almost nothing else they can do or say until OCIS comes back with a finding. I’m assuming they wouldn’t be allowed to formally suspend him without OCIS direction, even if they were so inclined.

I’m not convinced Nikolaj will be as warmly received by the skating community as other predators have been, though. I can’t think of another situation in skating in recent years where that level of graphic detail about a violent assault was published in the media. I would imagine many people in the skating world will react as a lot of us have here, by finding the story credible. They may know him personally, but most people in skating are his professional acquaintances, not his best friends. Do they like him enough to brush off an accusation like that?

And on a different level, even people who care about him as a person may not be inclined to publicly support him until something changes. Even from those who are his close friends, it’s hard to imagine there will be many who publicly defend him in the aftermath of this article. Even from his inner circle, I’m expecting to hear “no comment,” not “he’s a great guy and I stand by him.”
 
Colonel Green said:
Piper just “liked” a number of Twitter comments by Ashley and Christine Brennan, so yeah, that’s shaping up to be a very awkward warmup group.
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For the rhythm dance they are supposed to be in different warm groups because Gilles/Poirier didn't compete last year - Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen are supposed to skate last, which could be interesting.
 
Karen-W said:
Can we not link ridiculous fan speculation from Xwitter? There is nothing useful to be had from trying to read anything into brief video clips of post-medal photo op gatherings.
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I just don't get this ridiculous 'look! our favorites are amazing!' circlejerk twitternuts get up to. Good for you, I guess? Now let's go back to the actual topic at hand.

Some on reddit did it too, but at least it's moderated.

About nationals - I don't think Skate Canada will take steps, but I'm hoping to be proved wrong. I don't think they'll perform well anyway, they're going to be looked at with a magnifying glass, if they turn up.
 
Yes Skate Canada can’t do anything and yes they are very vulnerable to being sued. There is no statute of limitation with reporting rape/sexual assault in Canada but if convicted the length of sentencing isn’t that great imo. It should be a lot longer. I really don’t know this couple well though as I haven’t been watching pairs for a while.
 
I'm surmising that while Skate Canada may have been aware there was an OSIC investigation involving Sorensen they (and possibly the staff at IAM, etc) were under the impression it wasn't for anything "serious" until the Brennan article came out. I suspect many parties are scrambling now to figure out what to do. As a (now former) huge fan of FB/S, I'm really wondering what will happen re Worlds in Montreal when the international media is involved.
 
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neu said:
Yeah I know. Athletes who never tested positive are still guilty because of some "history".
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Please show some respect for the very serious allegations this woman is making, and the damaging effects of sexual assault, and take your discussion to the Politically Incorrect forum. Or, read the endless debates in the Russian skaters thread. There really is nothing you can say that hasn't already been said on your topic.
 
overedge said:
In many occupations, especially those that involve contact with vulnerable populations (e.g. children), an accusation is enough to justify a suspension until the case is resolved. It's an option to protect the safety of coworkers or clients.
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He is not dangerous. He has not been proven guilty. He is not a coach who has direct contact with kids.
 
Trillian said:
I agree, and since they’re not the organization tasked with investigating this, there’s probably almost nothing else they can do or say until OCIS comes back with a finding. I’m assuming they wouldn’t be allowed to formally suspend him without OCIS direction, even if they were so inclined.
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That was my initial reaction too, but I did some digging and found that it is not the case and Skate Canada could probably attempt something if they really wanted to.

OSIC's Guidelines Regarding Provisional Measures state that while sports organizations' role is to oversee the implementation of any provisional measure decided by the Director of Sanctions and Outcomes (no evidence that this case is far along enough for that review to have happened, or that any provisional measure have been imposed at this time), they can enforce and implement "any positive measure described in section 4d. of these Guidelines that may be considered necessary." These include a range of actions, most of which are more geared towards coaches and officials than sport participants, but include measures such as restricting travel.

I am thinking out loud and this is speculation on my part, but Skate Canada may be reluctant to impose such measures for a variety of reasons (some of which are probably valid from a legal perspective), such as not being sure they have the authority to do so, OSIC didn't impose any provisional measures so they don't think they have to, they don't think people are at imminent risk, etc...

Regardless of the outcome of the OSIC case, I believe survivors fully and hope that this survivor finds justice in a way that is meaningful to them, and are able to move forward with adequate support.
 
nlloyd said:
There really is nothing you can say that hasn't already been said on your topic.
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All I want to say that ISU can suspend whoever they want including Sorensen no matter if he found guilty or not. Article 17.1q of ISU Constitution gives to ISU Counsel right to do whatever they want.
 
A couple of tweets by judge three about this latest case:


"I believe survivors and I believe this survivor. I understand why she didn’t speak up at the time. That area of Connecticut and the three rinks involved is the Bermuda Triangle of sexual abuse in American skating with zero accountability for abusers."


"Coaches and/or athletes credibly accused of sexual abuse or assault who spent significant time at those three rinks include Bob Young (banned), Tom Incantalupo (criminal charges&banned), Andrew Lavrik *(criminal charges&banned), Nikolai Morozov (), and multiple others."

*According to a tweet by TSL this guy still coaches in the area through some loophole.
 
Private Citizen said:
IMO there has to be some level of substantiation to the allegations beyond “he said - she said” for a suspension to be warranted. E.g., I would have had no problem with an immediate suspension for Morgan Cipres where there was hard evidence to substantiate the allegations. Even John Coughlin when there were multiple consistent claims from unrelated parties with nothing to gain.

I know many people believe no one will ever make claims like this to reap a competitive advantage, but IME there are groups of people who will say and do anything to get ahead. If all that’s needed to suspend someone is to say “X raped me 10+ years ago,” sooner or later some favorite-to-win skater is going to get accused right before the Olympics. Would people be reacting the same way if a Russian skater accused, say, Nathan Chen, of a long ago crime on the day of the Olympic opening ceremonies?

SC’s response was inept and shameful, but I don’t think they have enough to suspend if what’s reported is the totality of the evidence against Sorensen.
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Sorenson wasn't even skating for Canada when this is alleged to have happened. I'd be somewhat at a loss as to what to say now about this as well, although I agree their response was less than adequate. One friend said it reads like it was written by AI.

But I disagree with your "pick and choose" who gets suspended and who doesn't. Anything other than standard rules applying to everyone, will be abused at some point. It's inevitable.
Judy said:
Yes Skate Canada can’t do anything and yes they are very vulnerable to being sued. There is no statute of limitation with reporting rape/sexual assault in Canada but if convicted the length of sentencing isn’t that great imo. It should be a lot longer. I really don’t know this couple well though as I haven’t been watching pairs for a while.
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He can't be tried in Canada for a crime that was committed in the USA, and no Skate Canada cannot be sued because he wasn't skating for Canada until 2018. The incident in question took place in 2012, when he had no connection to Skate Canada and wasn't a Canadian skater.
 
Dragonlady said:
Sorenson wasn't even skating for Canada when this is alleged to have happened. I'd be somewhat at a loss as to what to say now about this as well, although I agree their response was less than adequate. One friend said it reads like it was written by AI.

But I disagree with your "pick and choose" who gets suspended and who doesn't. Anything other than standard rules applying to everyone, will be abused at some point. It's inevitable.


He can't be tried in Canada for a crime that was committed in the USA, and no Skate Canada cannot be sued because he wasn't skating for Canada until 2018. The incident in question took place in 2012, when he had no connection to Skate Canada and wasn't a Canadian skater.
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I agree. I was just speaking generally about our sexual assault/rape victims in Canada. Canada believes in rehabilitation. That’s different from the U.S. I just feel that when there is tons of evidence .. the sentences should be much longer. I’m not really referring to this case though.

However, it strongly brings back memories of this case in my city. He’s Quebec but stuff happened in Ottawa 🤢🤮. https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/1120-batchelor

very, very dangerous. Our courts take a long time too.
 
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