Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[leilaofpaper]

Are those standards being lowered? Is there evidence that false reports are being made, or enough of them to unfairly impact the careers of those that are being accused?

^^^This

Because right now we have a system that overwhelmingly favours abusers getting off scott free. I would much rather a few people have to go through some hardship due to a false report than many many victims having to go through the current system.

The evidence shows that false reports are few and far between.

 

[Hedwig]

The only decent thing he could do now would be to stand to the accusations, make retributions to her in any way he can and step aside and let her therefore have a chance to heal. But we know that it will not come to this and he will likely go on coaching children because skating is all he knows and therefore he will do everything to say that this did not happen (and probably even make himself believe it!) and I am just so so disgusted with this world.

 

[Private Citizen]

In many occupations, especially those that involve contact with vulnerable populations (e.g. children), an accusation is enough to justify a suspension until the case is resolved. It's an option to protect the safety of coworkers or clients.

Aren't they usually suspended with pay, though, or assigned to desk work? This situation is tough because there's no way to make it "fair" to Sorensen while the investigation happens, and it's wrong to presume him guilty without due process. (Caveat: I believe the accusations are probably true, but he deserves due process.)

I'm sorry, but as a Connecticut resident and, like, a HUMAN, I cannot get over the fact that the statute of limitations on RAPE in Connecticut was FIVE YEARS. FIVE YEARS???? That's unconscionable.

One of the articles mentioned that CT has changed the statue of limitations on rape to 20 years (thank goodness), but it only applies to rapes that happened after the law change. Applying to earlier crimes would be unconstitutional.

I will say, though, that it's always going to be exceedingly hard to prove a rape from a very long time ago, absent physical evidence or eyewitness testimony. The change in statute of limitations is the moral and ethical thing to do, but I'm not sure how much of a meaningful difference it will make.

 

[skateblessing]

I do not know the legal stuff behind this, but wouldn´t it be possible to avoid situation like this where Skate Canada can´t do anything because of possible lawsuit, if there was clear rules from ISU about temporary suspension for cases like this under investigation? Those investigations can take forever.

How come they can temporary suspend skaters under investigation for doping cases but not SA? We all know about cases where athletes was suspended and got a 2 years ban or so for minor doping cases where they did not know they used small amounts of products on the doping list, which couldn´t even give them any benefit. Yes I know it´s still their fault because they are learned up to be aware of those things, but I mean it´s not as bad as cases like this and still the consequences are so big.

Skaters are also aware of this, and do everything to not get in the situation, a similar clear rules about SA and consequences would perhaps also prevent things from this happening in the sport.

I know I know, SA is difficult because of lack of evidence, but I have to agree with those saying that people are not going to file a false allegations... ff course it has to be clear rules that false allegations would get consequences as well.

I know this is not helping this case at all, but the case might help getting a better system for this.

I think the best scenario now would be that they WD themselves because of personal reasons and say they need a break. I do not think Nik would suggest this himself, but my hope is that Laurence may not want to skate with him anymore/needs to sort out her feelings and takes the move.

I do not mean to put the pressure on Laurence and I feel terrible for her being in this situation, it must be all sorts of feelings. But I think it´s the best of not any good scenario nows that could happen.
We can assume she was already aware of this case but I do not think she knew all the details or could imagine that it would blow up like this.

I can not imagine that they are able to go on like nothing with this going on, and there is a good chance they will perform badly because of this. If they just continue like nothing has happen, they will probably been asked by journalist all the time, there might be booing from the audience and hostile atmosphere between skaters. What is the point of winning a medal if the costs are so big?

 

[Spikefan]

I would much rather a few people have to go through some hardship due to a false report than many many victims having to go through the current system.

Never forget Brock Turner. Caught in the act, found guilty, got a slap on the wrist because a long prison term “would have a severe impact on him”.

So people that argue false reports (not you) can take several seats.

 

[canbelto]

Never forget Brock Turner. Caught in the act, found guilty, got a slap on the wrist because a long prison term “would have a severe impact on him”.

So people that argue false reports (not you) can take several seats.

I'm going to sound heartless but I actually don't care if men are falsely accused. It's just desserts for the way women have been victimized, harassed, even killed for making an accusation of rape. I literally do not care about false accusations. If a woman says she was raped I believe her.

 

[Frau Muller]

… I do not think Nik would suggest this himself, but my hope is that Laurence may not want to skate with him anymore/needs to sort out her feelings and takes the move.

…..

Yeah, they may not want to skate to “Top Gun” again. Just sayin’.

 

[PRlady]

A key piece of evidence is whether the accuser told a friend or family member at the time. That’s what helped Jean Carroll in her case against Trump which was even older. If she told even one person she was raped, especially if that person was outside the skating world with no connection to Nik, that would be really important.

 

[Wyliefan]

The only decent thing he could do now would be to stand to the accusations, make retributions to her in any way he can and step aside and let her therefore have a chance to heal. But we know that it will not come to this and he will likely go on coaching children because skating is all he knows and therefore he will do everything to say that this did not happen (and probably even make himself believe it!) and I am just so so disgusted with this world.

(((@Hedwig)))

 

[Hedwig]

I'm going to sound heartless but I actually don't care if men are falsely accused. It's just desserts for the way women have been victimized, harassed, even killed for making an accusation of rape. I literally do not care about false accusations. If a woman says she was raped I believe her.

I understand your thoughts and your frustration very well.

 

[leilaofpaper]

A key piece of evidence is whether the accuser told a friend or family member at the time. That’s what helped Jean Carroll in her case against Trump which was even older. If she told even one person she was raped, especially if that person was outside the skating world with no connection to Nik, that would be really important.

I did wonder about that. Or people who could attest to a change in behaviour after the assault.

 

[BittyBug]

Or a journal entry.

 

[skategal]

I would be shocked if any of this happened. This is skating. If anything, there will be public support for Nik because "he's a good guy and couldn't have done this."

I don't know about that.

There are already nasty comments on Laurence's IG account and she didn't have anything to do with this.

 

[leilaofpaper]

I don't know about that.

There are already nasty comments on Laurence's IG account and she didn't have anything to do with this.

what comments?

 

[skategal]

what comments?

They were hidden by instagram but you can click on hidden comments to see them.

Comments saying "rapist" and "POS rapist."

 

[pat c]

I don't know about that.

There are already nasty comments on Laurence's IG account and she didn't have anything to do with this.

It'll be both. You'll have some saying Nik is a nice guy, he won't have done it. And on the other side of the coin you'll have what you see on Laurence's IG account. There is no resolution per se, unless it's provable or Nik says yes he did it or the other person recants. Even then, the water has been tainted. No win.

 

[neu]

How come they can temporary suspend skaters under investigation for doping cases but not SA? We all know about cases where athletes was suspended and got a 2 years ban or so for minor doping cases where they did not know they used small amounts of products on the doping list, which couldn´t even give them any benefit. Yes I know it´s still their fault because they are learned up to be aware of those things, but I mean it´s not as bad as cases like this and still the consequences are so big.

I'll tell you even more - we all know about the case where athletes who did absolutely nothing wrong were suspended by ISU. They didn't dope, didn't rape, didn't break any rules. But they are still suspended. Isn't it outrageous?

 

[Hedwig]

I'll tell you even more - we all know about the case where athletes who did absolutely nothing wrong were suspended by ISU. They didn't dope, didn't rape, didn't break any rules. But they are still suspended. Isn't it outrageous?

unless it is Russia where sport is used as state propaganda it might be, yes. In case of Russia, I wholeheartedly agree with the ISU there.

 

[Colonel Green]

Aren't they usually suspended with pay, though, or assigned to desk work?

That’s context-dependent. Like, there’s no such thing as suspending a skating coach with pay — families aren’t going to keep paying for lessons from someone who is not, in fact, giving lessons.

 

[Xallie]

I would expect Nik to be warmly received by skaters and others.

I don't know. This clip has been making the rounds, people are saying from Tessa and Scott's reactions, they must have known something was off with him.

A key piece of evidence is whether the accuser told a friend or family member at the time. That’s what helped Jean Carroll in her case against Trump which was even older. If she told even one person she was raped, especially if that person was outside the skating world with no connection to Nik, that would be really important.

She probably told a therapist. From Brennan's article:

The report said she sought psychological treatment

But how long do therapists have to keep their notes? They're not even required to take notes, are they?

 

[skategal]

I fear suspending athletes under investigation for sexual assaults from competing will cause more victims to be doubted or their credibility doubted or be subject to more scrutiny thus, preventing more of them from speaking out.

It sucks that athletes under investigation can still compete but it's probably safer for the victims if they are allowed to keep competing.

 

[neu]

unless it is Russia where sport is used as state propaganda it might be, yes. In case of Russia, I wholeheartedly agree with the ISU there.

Oh, I see. So absolutely innocent athletes must be punished just because somebody thinks they are "used".

 

[Colonel Green]

She probably told a therapist. From Brennan's article:

But how long do therapists have to keep their notes? They're not even required to take notes, are they?

Therapists’ professional organizations typically do have standards for maintaining patient records. You generally wouldn’t get rid of patient records as long as your practice was active anyway; you might need to treat them again.

 

[Karen-W]

Oh, I see. So absolutely innocent athletes must be punished just because somebody thinks they are "used".

Lol - if you think most Russian athletes are innocent, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

I don't know. This clip has been making the rounds, people are saying from Tessa and Scott's reactions, they must have known something was off with him.

Can we not link ridiculous fan speculation from Xwitter? There is nothing useful to be had from trying to read anything into brief video clips of post-medal photo op gatherings.

 

[neu]

Lol - if you think most Russian athletes are innocent, I've got some oceanfront property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

I know, presumption of innocence is only for "master race".

 

[Debbie S]

But how long do therapists have to keep their notes? They're not even required to take notes, are they?

As Colonel Green said, there are professional org (and insurance reimbursement) requirements for note-taking. Usually the min requirement is 5 years for saving, but many save records for longer than that.

 

[Wyliefan]

I know, presumption of innocence is only for "master race".

I thought the Russians WERE supposed to be the master race.

 

[neu]

I thought the Russians WERE supposed to be the master race.

Big mistake. It's not Russians who say athletes are guilty just because of their nationality.

 

[Private Citizen]

I fear suspending athletes under investigation for sexual assaults from competing will cause more victims to be doubted or their credibility doubted or be subject to more scrutiny thus, preventing more of them from speaking out.

IMO there has to be some level of substantiation to the allegations beyond “he said - she said” for a suspension to be warranted. E.g., I would have had no problem with an immediate suspension for Morgan Cipres where there was hard evidence to substantiate the allegations. Even John Coughlin when there were multiple consistent claims from unrelated parties with nothing to gain.

I know many people believe no one will ever make claims like this to reap a competitive advantage, but IME there are groups of people who will say and do anything to get ahead. If all that’s needed to suspend someone is to say “X raped me 10+ years ago,” sooner or later some favorite-to-win skater is going to get accused right before the Olympics. Would people be reacting the same way if a Russian skater accused, say, Nathan Chen, of a long ago crime on the day of the Olympic opening ceremonies?

SC’s response was inept and shameful, but I don’t think they have enough to suspend if what’s reported is the totality of the evidence against Sorensen.

 

[Hedwig]

I thought the Russians WERE supposed to be the master race.

And so quickly they go to the ignore list so we can discuss the matter at hand again.