If someone fell on the ice right before they were about to skate a program before the music started, or after the program was over and the skater fell on the ice as he or she was about to leave the ice, would a judge take a 1.0 deduction for a fall in either case?
Judging question....
- Thread starter tylersf
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skateboy
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I'm pretty sure the answer is no.
Karpenko
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No I don't believe so. Otherwise Ashley Wagner in the 2016 Worlds SP - the crowd (and Raf)would've went from 
to 
a few seconds after the program ended.
to a few seconds after the program ended.
antmanb
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No the judges aren't marking anything outside of the music (or the skaters final pose if they're running late in the programme).
Someone should tell Daniel Samohin about this because his "character driven" bows at the end of his programmes drive me insane....he puts more expression into his bows than he does his entire LP
Someone should tell Daniel Samohin about this because his "character driven" bows at the end of his programmes drive me insane....he puts more expression into his bows than he does his entire LP
antmanb
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S&P skated under 6.0 so how would we ever know if the judges took anything off for the fall? (I don't follow ice dance but weren't B&K 6.0 only skaters too?)
In the case of Bourne/Kraatz, the fall actually came as he was trying to adjust his weight from lifting her-- before they even thought about hitting a final pose. I haven't seen the video in a long time (and a quick Youtube search shows the American version has the audio muted), but IIRC Tracy Wilson pointed out right away that it was a big mistake because both skaters had fallen versus Margaglio falling on his footwork. It probably was enough to give the Italians the bronze medal without any kind of big suspicion, if there was such a possibility by that point. 
Karpenko
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No the judges aren't marking anything outside of the music (or the skaters final pose if they're running late in the programme).
Someone should tell Daniel Samohin about this because his "character driven" bows at the end of his programmes drive me insane....he puts more expression into his bows than he does his entire LP
Never!! That's my favorite thing about Samohin.
It's actually not that unusual of a question, considering how (surprisingly) often this happens after the program is over.
gkelly
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Under IJS, the judges don't take fall deductions. The technical panel does.
Fall deductions will only apply to falls during the program duration -- from the time the skater starts moving after the music starts to the time they come to a complete stop at the end of the music. (This may be slightly before or slightly after the actual end of the music -- the program timing goes by the skater's movement, not by the length of the music cut.)
What might happen if a skater falls on the way to their starting position, especially now that only 30 seconds are allowed to get there, is that the referee might apply a late start deduction if the skater doesn't get to their starting spot in time.
If the fall was because of a problem on the ice or if the skater seemed to be injured, that would have to be dealt with first and then I believe the timing should start over again after the skater is announced again.
If the skater gets to the starting position on time and then falls after taking their starting pose but before the music starts, I doubt that would occasion a late start deduction, but it might depend on the specific circumstances and on the referee's judgment.
D
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There was no specific deduction for falling outside of an element under 6.0. B&K's was deemed to be on an element. S&P's marks didn't seem to be affected much, if at all, since they took a couple ordinals from B&S and were stil unanimously above S&Z.
S&P's would be an interesting case under IJS. The actual fall occurred after the music had ended and after they had attempted an ending pose, but they didn't appear to ever be completely still in that ending pose before the fall. It always struck me as ironic that IJS was introduced in response to controversy over that result, but that if S&P's double fall were counted, it would've been much more severe a point loss than Anton's minor error and would've made them less likely to win (though in the very first year of IJS, I believe there wasn't a separate fall deduction, but judges were instructed to reduce P&E mark by 0.5 per fall).
https://youtu.be/epZTJBGbpXs?t=203
(ETA, maybe the point loss would've been about the same since they would've lost the second jump in sequence due to weight transfer, if it otherwise would've been counted, which it might not have anyway based on a strict application of current rules that didn't apply at the time. It's interesting, but not necessarily useful, to try to retroactively apply current standards. I've tried a couple times but gotten disheartened after so many no value spins, including one from Lucinda Ruh
).I'm not 100% sure whether a fall would be counted on the intro or concluding choreography of a pattern dance while the music was playing, before the actual dance steps had started or after they had ended. I think it probably would, but does anyone know for sure?
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Bellanca
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Well, it's like this, it shouldn't, but a fall (like what you have described) can leave a lasting impression, thus causing a judge to pause because it just doesn't look good and kind of leaves a mark, a blemish on the entire program. Judges are human, after all. Should a fall of this nature occur, the judges will have their thoughts and then hopefully they'll abide by the rules and make the right decision. 
Most do.
Most do.
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