Josh Duggar ('19 Kids and Counting') Arrested by Feds

MsZem

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Wyliefan

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Does it always imply consent? I've read that there's a lot of trafficking that goes on in the industry, even of adults.
 

genevieve

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Anna lives on her in-laws property, has six children and a seventh on the way. No job skills either, and probably no assets in her or Josh’s name. Unless her family will take them in, she doesn’t have options.
If only a GFM to get a brainwashed woman out of a shitty cult existence could generate a fraction of what those for a bakery that refuses to cater gay weddings, or Kyle Rittenhouse, did.
 

Prancer

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In the meantime, I hope Anna Duggar takes those kids and gets out of Dodge
But where is she to go?
Josh Denhollander offered on Twitter to set up a GFM for Anna and her kids, and also said they could come stay with the Denhollanders if they needed to.
That's very kind, but I have always thought that there needs to be some sort of organization to help women who want to leave religions like this, as you aren't just leaving your husband or family--you have to leave EVERYONE and start out with no support system, no friends, no one to turn to, no money, no nothing. It's hard enough when you are on your own, but it's pretty close to impossible with all those kids.

Shunning is a really powerful control system.
 

Wyliefan

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But where is she to go?

That's very kind, but I have always thought that there needs to be some sort of organization to help women who want to leave religions like this, as you aren't just leaving your husband or family--you have to leave EVERYONE and start out with no support system, no friends, no one to turn to, no money, no nothing. It's hard enough when you are on your own, but it's pretty close to impossible with all those kids.

Shunning is a really powerful control system.
Those of you who have brought this up are right, and I'm sorry if I sounded flippant about it. Let me rephrase: I hope her family or the Denhollanders or someone can provide the help that Anna and the kids desperately need right now.
 

Prancer

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Those of you who have brought this up are right, and I'm sorry if I sounded flippant about it.
I didn't think you were flippant and I agree with the sentiment, but the two ways most women who escape this lifestyle do it is either by leaving when they are young and single or by marrying a man who has or develops "liberal" ideas.

Anna will almost certainly turn to her family or his. She's too tied up to do much of anything else. And that's assuming that she WANTS to do something else, which is probably not the case.
 

overedge

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I saw that after I posted and it’s a really lovely offer if she will decide or break with the Duggars.

As he pointed out, he grew up in a family that followed the same belief as the Duggars (I think he said he has 12 brothers and sisters). So I'm sure he knows about the practical difficulties of breaking away from that situation, and made the offer with that in mind.

Who knows, if Anna sees an offer of help from someone who's lived in the same kind of family situation, and who understands what she would be facing if she left, that offer might seem like more of a possibility for her.
 
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Amy L

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One of Anna's brothers offered to take her & her kids in (I believe there were four at the time) when the story about Josh molesting his sisters came out. She refused it then, and I can't imagine her taking an offer from a stranger either.
 

alexikeguchi

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One of Anna's brothers offered to take her & her kids in (I believe there were four at the time) when the story about Josh molesting his sisters came out. She refused it then, and I can't imagine her taking an offer from a stranger either.
Well if Josh is not allowed to live with the family while out on bond and then gets significant jail time, the calculation will change.
 

starrynight

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Was reading about this topic and someone shared this blog post which I thought was really interesting:


I went to a religious school - but it still had to follow the state syllabus and there really was a limit as to how far down these rabbit holes they could go. Even with a background in religion, it's hard for me to wrap my head around some of this stuff. Even when I totally understand the framework it is operating on.

Honestly I'm just glad that homeschooling isn't really a thing at all in my country. I truly believe it's the right of every child to have the opportunity to be educated out in society and be given freedom of choice. A system that enables parents to sabotage their children's education and futures to keep them compliant in a religion is not right. A lot of this is about ensuring children are so poorly educated they don't have choices.

I have a friend that was raised in a very religious home. But because she had to go to a regular school, she achieved (by her own initiative) good marks and was then able to go to university and create her own life. She always says that if her parents would have been permitted to homeschool her, there certainly would not have been any opportunity to leave and study law.
 
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Yazmeen

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Or...it meant she ended up with the most strong willed husband who butted heads with her dad.
From what I've read, Jill and her husband actually went after Jim Bob for pocketing most of the money that their TV empire brought in and continuing to insist on making all the decisions, including after the older girls got married. Amazing how a man who firmly believes that in a marriage, the husband should control the money and make the rules wouldn't allow his son-in-laws to do just that...
 

alexikeguchi

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It's made the NYT:

Reading the first sentence, I immediately realized how the title of the original Duggar show appears unintentionally ironic now. I hope whoever he has abused this time around has a more supportive environment than his first victims in his own family found.
 

MsZem

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And her "rebellion" is comparatively mild - wearing sleeveless tops and shorts, getting a teeny-tiny nose piercing, having an alcoholic drink with a restaurant meal. But yet that's enough for people to attack her online and her parents to discourage her and her family from visiting :(
It really shows how huge doing those perfectly normal things is for someone who grew up as Jill did. I hope it'll eventually serve as an example to some of her siblings.
 

Wyliefan

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As he pointed out, he grew up in a family that followed the same belief as the Duggars (I think he said he has 12 brothers and sisters). So I'm sure he knows about the practical difficulties of breaking away from that situation, and made the offer with that in mind.
The Denhollanders are really good at offering the kind of practical help that people in this situation need. I know of at least one ex-fundie abused by her family whom Rachael walked through the process of getting away and getting help.
 

starrynight

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Well if the subject incident happened back in 2019 and his dealership was raided back in 2019... Would his family have known about this for some time? Or is it the case that only now that the charges have been made they are aware?
 

MacMadame

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skatfan

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Well if the subject incident happened back in 2019 and his dealership was raided back in 2019... Would his family have known about this for some time? Or is it the case that only now that the charges have been made they are aware?
They seem to have known - Jim Bob was at a conference and left on Wednesday ahead of Josh's arrest. Josh and Amy were selling everything they owned after the 2019 raid and now live in a converted warehouse on the parents' property. If there are any assets, my guess is that they are in Anna's name only. TLC has not announced whether the follow-on series "Counting On" will have a new season. Since Anna was heavy featured in this show, it's hard to see how it could.

edited to add - apparently Josh created LLCs in his wife's name: https://youtu.be/5ZqXAHU9ZsM
 
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olympic

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The accusations are not surprising to me.

Anything related to sex or the human body is hard to talk about and me growing up in an evangelical household, I found religion gave it all an extra element of shame. So, anything related to sexuality, whether on the spectrum from healthy to depraved, is really buried and won't be addressed in any way. My experience.

When dangerous thoughts are not discussed and ignored, they grow fastest in the dark. Whether it is acknowledged somehow and brought to the attention of a doctor, counselor or therapist, it is at least someone taking notice. The Duggars don't sound like people that accepted science or any knowledge from the outside world.
 

Prancer

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One of Anna's brothers offered to take her & her kids in (I believe there were four at the time) when the story about Josh molesting his sisters came out. She refused it then, and I can't imagine her taking an offer from a stranger either.
I think that most people who have had no part of this world picture the women who live within it always fantasizing about escape. IME, this isn't true at all. Some do, of course, but there are more women than men in these religions and women are often the driving force--as was the case, I believe, with the Duggars, with Michelle being the one who became religious first.

Social pressure is definitely a factor, but that's definitely not all or even mostly what is involved.
 

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