JoJo Gomez, Choreographer, Accuses Daniil Gleikhengauz of Stealing Her Work

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,106
If the adults in Alina's life taught her that plagiarism is fine, why would she think anything differently? I'm not sure she is exactly getting a world class education outside of the rink.
 

okokok777

Well-Known Member
Messages
44
I really don't understand what Daniil was thinking. Jojo has a pretty big social media following & there is quite a bit of overlap between the dance and figure skating fandoms. Did he just assume that she wouldn't see the performance or that she would just be "flattered" that he was copying her work?

When people first commented on Daniil's Instagram post about the similarities between Alina's performance and Jojo's video, he deleted the comments and blocked the posters. That was at least a couple of hours before Jojo commented on Daniil's post & published her own regarding the issue. IMO things may have gone smoother had Daniil immediately DM'd Jojo to apologize & edited his post to credit her. Copying a choreographer's work without asking permission or giving credit is so unprofessional.

The fault for stealing the choreography and trying to pass it off as their own work falls, 100%, on Daniil. I also think that implicating Alina in his "apology" was in very poor taste.

With that said, if Alina&co knew that the choreography was based on a YouTube video, I do think that Alina's social media team should have credited Jojo on Alina's official Instagram page back in May.

P.S. Admittedly, I may be being too hard on her social media coordinator. Alina and/or her coaching team may not have informed them about the original source of choreography. Daniil did the "deed" and it was his responsibility to ask for permission & ensure that Jojo was properly credited on both his and Alina's pages.
 

Jarrett

Go Mirai!
Messages
2,937
Given that her choreo gets copied a lot, it’s unfortunate that she’s apparently never been advised by a copyright lawyer and is unaware of her rights.

@shine, how do you know the question ever came up? Leaving that aside, copyright law is pretty complex and varies by jurisdiction. What’s okay and what’s not okay in one country or another is highly fact specific. I personally don’t think it’s right to criticize or blame a 17 year old skater for not understanding the law or for rejecting a program given to her by a trusted, adult choreographer.
Maybe you should offer her your services as an expert at copyright law? This is not sarcasm.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,382
I honestly don’t really understand this whole argument that it’s all the choreographer’s fault and it has nothing to do with poor innocent Alina. Why? Is it because she’s only 17? But she’s 17 not 7. I’m pretty sure I was well aware of the concept of plagiarism by 17.
IN all honesty I don't think you spent almost every waking moment of your day on an ice rink training and doing what you were told to do....without question. Very possible she is not up to date on a lot of things.I doubt whether she would question any of her coaches on their decisions.
 

seruleane

Member
Messages
11
I honestly don’t really understand this whole argument that it’s all the choreographer’s fault and it has nothing to do with poor innocent Alina. Why? Is it because she’s only 17? But she’s 17 not 7. I’m pretty sure I was well aware of the concept of plagiarism by 17.
I agree with what other posters said- that Alina, being an athlete training in the rink most of her days is going to listen to her coaches. And if her coach or choreographer says this is OK to do, then she will probably just follow their lead.

I also agree that plagiarism in any form- whether it be essays, ideas, music, dance moves- is very prevalent and therefore, when people criticize Alina, I think about the verse "let him who is without sin cast the first stone." I would freely admit that I plagiarized when I was in high school and college. I bet most of you have copied phrases of a writing you admire and passed it on as your own because you forgot to put quotation marks, or forgot to cite it properly in references. We haven't even talked about plagiarism of ideas, which is commonplace with the amount of information freely and instantaneously available on the internet. I challenge those of you who insist you have not plagiarized and are so quick to condemn others, esp a 17 year old athlete. You must be better, cleverer people than me.
 
Last edited:

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,849
I just saw this on On Ice Perspective's channel:

That's really cool by Cordero and OIP! 😍

The Billie Eilish song is not really mumbling. It's more like talking softly and carrying a great beat, with lots of rad 'tude. :D The lyrics are distinguishable.
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,066
TBH I wish the lyrics were mumbled more. Some of those lyrics are pretty gross to hear sung (or skated to) by a 17-year-old - especially since the song/lyrics are at least partially written by her brother.
 

aftershocks

Well-Known Member
Messages
15,849
TBH I wish the lyrics were mumbled more. Some of those lyrics are pretty gross to hear sung (or skated to) by a 17-year-old - especially since the song/lyrics are at least partially written by her brother.
Okay, maybe the lyrics aren't all distinguishable. :lol: But the mood and 'tude definitely are, as is the beat.
 

Rock2

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,601
JoJo Gomez has accused Daniil Gleikhengauz of stealing her choreography for Bad Guy and using it for Alina's exhibition program:
When your goal is to simply get professional credit for the work you do, you might look up Daniil, DM or email him, and ask for appropriate recognition.

If you're an opportunist looking to gain publicity or otherwize capitalize on what is likely an oversight for something fairly common in skating, you take to social media to lash out with inflammatory accusations.

In my mind how you deal with such matters says as much about you as it does Daniil.

(Note: my opinion is based on an assumption Daniil was not contacted first and asked to rectify. If that was mentioned in this thread I missed it.).
 

Finsta

Well-Known Member
Messages
321
How do you know she didn’t try other methods? Wasn’t he deleting and blocking people. He knew. Uber fandom is scary
 

Daena

Well-Known Member
Messages
189
When your goal is to simply get professional credit for the work you do, you might look up Daniil, DM or email him, and ask for appropriate recognition.

If you're an opportunist looking to gain publicity or otherwize capitalize on what is likely an oversight for something fairly common in skating, you take to social media to lash out with inflammatory accusations.

In my mind how you deal with such matters says as much about you as it does Daniil.

(Note: my opinion is based on an assumption Daniil was not contacted first and asked to rectify. If that was mentioned in this thread I missed it.).
That's funny. Ugh, let's see how it works.

When your goal is to simply get back things which were stolen, you might look up thieves online or using newspapers, DM or e-mails them.
If you are opportunist looking to gain publicity or otherwise capitalize on what is likely minor larceny fairly common in this world, you go to police with inflammatory accusations.
In my mind how you deal with such matters says as much about you as it does thieves.
(Note: my opinion is based on assumption thieves were not contacted first and asked to return your things)
 

zebraswan

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,106
An "oversight"? Oops, he just accidentally created a program with her choreo after watching the video and showing it to Alina?

She had every right to call him out in public. I'm glad she did it. I The victim blaming I've seen from some people is just bizarre. And if stealing choreo is "fairly common in skating," I'd like to know who does it, so I can support other, more professional choreographers who actually create things on their own.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,227
To me stealing choreo would be if the whole thing was taken and used for a dance video (not a figure skating show number). I would also think figure skating programs up to now have used some moves from music videos, and I've not heard anyone screaming "plagiarism?"

So he took 10 seconds of shirt biting and maybe 2 moves from her video for 10 seconds of intro to Alina's program and she wants to scream "choreography plagiarism" and to be paid for it? Of course the right thing to do would have been to ask her in the first place, but to me her response seems like screaming for attention. Daniil is clearly not professional.

The whole program is not that good anyways, but this is so overblown.

I bet you that youtube person, Fran is going to make a video about this and be oh so disgusted about it (she just looooves ragging on Zagitova and her team)
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,845
When your goal is to simply get professional credit for the work you do, you might look up Daniil, DM or email him, and ask for appropriate recognition.

If you're an opportunist looking to gain publicity or otherwize capitalize on what is likely an oversight for something fairly common in skating, you take to social media to lash out with inflammatory accusations.

In my mind how you deal with such matters says as much about you as it does Daniil.

(Note: my opinion is based on an assumption Daniil was not contacted first and asked to rectify. If that was mentioned in this thread I missed it.).
He misappropriated her creative work, but you’re minimizing it as “something fairly common in skating” and calling her an opportunist?
 

shine

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,820
Are you seriously holding a 17-year old to equal account as an adult? DG is a professional who should know better. I can't say the same about Zagitova.
Perhaps not completely equal per se, but definitely also at fault as opposed to the innocent, unknowing position that many here are quickly and willing to assign her? And what do you consider a “professional” versus a non-professional? Can an Olympic and world champion who gives shows around the world and has endorsement contract(s) with global companies considered a “professional”? Like I said, I don’t think 17 is that young. And if age is the excuse this time, she only has 1 year to learn how to properly give credit.
IN all honesty I don't think you spent almost every waking moment of your day on an ice rink training and doing what you were told to do....without question. Very possible she is not up to date on a lot of things.I doubt whether she would question any of her coaches on their decisions.
Can busy adult life also be used as an excuse? I don’t doubt training all day is stressful (though I am not sure how rigorous the training is in the off season), but that’s also not the only source of stress that can interfere with how you process things in life. Perhaps Daniil has a very busy and stressful schedule, so why are we not giving him any concession?
 
Last edited:

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
59,997
To me stealing choreo would be if the whole thing was taken and used for a dance video (not a figure skating show number). I would also think figure skating programs up to now have used some moves from music videos, and I've not heard anyone screaming "plagiarism?"

So he took 10 seconds of shirt biting and maybe 2 moves from her video for 10 seconds of intro to Alina's program and she wants to scream "choreography plagiarism" and to be paid for it? Of course the right thing to do would have been to ask her in the first place, but to me her response seems like screaming for attention. Daniil is clearly not professional.

The whole program is not that good anyways, but this is so overblown.

I bet you that youtube person, Fran is going to make a video about this and be oh so disgusted about it (she just looooves ragging on Zagitova and her team)
How odd, that many who are outraged by this occurrence often post about how outraged they are about Zagitova or Tutberidze's program in general. :unsure: What a strange coincidence. :lol:
 

kwanfan1818

I <3 Kozuka
Messages
31,759
The only way I think that is relevant is if any poster tolerates and/ or excuses behavior by other people that they call out about one particular skater or camp.
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,845
How odd, that many who are outraged by this occurrence often post about how outraged they are about Zagitova or Tutberidze's program in general. :unsure: What a strange coincidence. :lol:
Just curious - would you be equally laissez faire if it was an issue of someone plagiarizing academic work or, say, falsifying their research?
 

rfisher

Let the skating begin
Messages
59,997
Just curious - would you be equally laissez faire if it was an issue of someone plagiarizing academic work or, say, falsifying their research?
Unfortunately, it happens everyday. However, the consequences are quite different than a teenaged figure skater performing in an exhibition. I think there is a significant difference. Moreover, apologies were offered and accepted on non-copyrighted content. What more could they do than what they've done?

And, as I said, I don't think it's a coincidence that the posters expressing the greatest outrage are the same who always pounce on anything that has to do with this skater or the coaching/choreographic team. Just look at the previous posts for the pattern.
 

okokok777

Well-Known Member
Messages
44
When your goal is to simply get professional credit for the work you do, you might look up Daniil, DM or email him, and ask for appropriate recognition.

If you're an opportunist looking to gain publicity or otherwize capitalize on what is likely an oversight for something fairly common in skating, you take to social media to lash out with inflammatory accusations.

In my mind how you deal with such matters says as much about you as it does Daniil.

(Note: my opinion is based on an assumption Daniil was not contacted first and asked to rectify. If that was mentioned in this thread I missed it.).
Daniil deleted Instagram comments about the similarities between Alina's program and Jojo's choreography & blocked the posters at least a couple of hours before Jojo commented on his post and got directly involved.

Why didn't he respond to the comments? Why didn't he (immediately) DM Jojo, explain the situation, apologize for his wrongdoing and update his post to credit her?

I don't see how Jojo reacted "poorly" by calling him out publicly. Her work was stolen by another choreographer. When Daniil was notified (via comments & DMs) about this by several people, he chose to delete their comments and block them.
Furthermore, Jojo only tagged Daniil in her personal comment, not Alina. She also edited her post description AND posted several Instastories asking people to leave Alina alone.

I really don't understand how, given all the facts about the situation, people can be upset with Jojo.

Semi-unrelated but somebody on Alina's team really should edit her May 20 post to credit Jojo.
 

CaliSteve

Well-Known Member
Messages
708
When your goal is to simply get professional credit for the work you do, you might look up Daniil, DM or email him, and ask for appropriate recognition.
So you think Jojo Gomez, the Choreographer, should have followed certain communication protocols to Daniil after he copied her choreo without her permission or acknowledgment?????

If you're an opportunist looking to gain publicity or otherwize capitalize on what is likely an oversight for something fairly common in skating, you take to social media to lash out with inflammatory accusations.
Jojo Gomez has nearly 2 million Instagram and YouTube followers, makes $$$ from YouTube alone, and is in demand as a dancer and choreographer. She is probably more recognizable to the general public then top figure skaters and has better things to do then to be an "opportunist" and call out a figure skating choreographer for copying her work.
 

Tavi

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,845
Unfortunately, it happens everyday. However, the consequences are quite different than a teenaged figure skater performing in an exhibition. I think there is a significant difference. Moreover, apologies were offered and accepted on non-copyrighted content. What more could they do than what they've done?

And, as I said, I don't think it's a coincidence that the posters expressing the greatest outrage are the same who always pounce on anything that has to do with this skater or the coaching/choreographic team. Just look at the previous posts for the pattern.
I agree that the consequences could be far worse in a case where research was falsified, for example. And I personally don’t hold Alina at all responsible (regarding other posters, I guess I don’t follow the Russia thread enough to know who’s always criticizing her / Eteri) but I’ll take your word for it.

For me the issue is less “he apologized, what more can be done now” and more that people are criticizing her response and minimizing his act. It was probably a dumb mistake that he’ll never make again. But taking and using someone else’s creative work without permission can impact their reputation and ability to earn a living. Someone who saw Alina’s program before JoJo’s and wasn’t aware of the controversy, for example, might not know that Jojo’s work is the original. It’s not hard to imagine the kind of problems that could create for her professionally.

The other thing is, many choreographers (or their estates, in the case of someone like Balanchine) license their works, and depending on the agreement, the choreographer will receive a royalty (meaning income) and might have some control over how the work is used or performed.

Had Daniil asked permission to use JoJo’s work, we don’t know whether she would have asked him for anything more than to credit her. But she might have, and she would have been entitled to do so, even though she apparently wrongly believes (as do many here) that she didn’t have copyright in her work.

There are a lot things about copyright laws that maybe should change (like most people here I find it incredibly annoying when skating videos are blocked or taken down) but there’s a reason for them: “To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries.” I still think that’s a worthwhile goal.
 

muffinplus

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,227
I agree that the consequences could be far worse in a case where research was falsified, for example. And I personally don’t hold Alina at all responsible (regarding other posters, I guess I don’t follow the Russia thread enough to know who’s always criticizing her / Eteri) but I’ll take your word for it.

For me the issue is less “he apologized, what more can be done now” and more that people are criticizing her response and minimizing his act. It was probably a dumb mistake that he’ll never make again. But taking and using someone else’s creative work without permission can impact their reputation and ability to earn a living. Someone who saw Alina’s program before JoJo’s and wasn’t aware of the controversy, for example, might not know that Jojo’s work is the original. It’s not hard to imagine the kind of problems that could create for her professionally.
Alina's program (or do I need to watch something else other than the beginning?) has like 3 to 5 seconds of this so-called choreography, which consists of shirt biting and similar head motions.

Gomez is going to suffer professionally ?:lol: The overreaction of it all. She is being criticized because maybe not everyone sees this the same way as you do.
 
Last edited:

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,087
- I personally very well understand JoJo's reaction when she saw first few seconds of Alina's programme, since the first 6 gestures are from her video. It is not a matter of "payment", it is a matter of what's in her perception "taking hers, without asking first". She said that she did not copyright it, or marked her video with any legal notifications, but still, her human reaction is normal. I can relate, because when few times people took my FSU russian translations and posted on their site, for me it was not about "money" or "credit", but "taking without asking".

- JoJo and her boyfriend Donovan (rudeboydonovan) have been now made aware of the "causes and reasons and story behind" all the hate and threats Alina has received on her social media last two days. Beside JoJo's request to stop hate against Alina, her boyfriend also felt he had to speak out and posted his request to stop:

- JoJo apparently is interested in visiting Russia, or possibly working with Alina, and both of them for example doing a "Puma" commercial, with her choreography and Alina's skating, is an interesting option, given the "Puma" market segment and target audience overlap with JoJo's audience demographics.

- Now. Daniil, on the other hand, has not done anything "sneaky" or "malicious" or "intentional. It is a misunderstanding, and it had to be resolved, since it came to this.

Most figure skating programmes are BASED on "copying something" from already existing "visual arts" pieces. Choreographers do watch videos of ballets, dance and theatre performances to use the parts in their programmes. So far it has NOT been a problem when one "watched a video" and "uses few moves/steps in the programme". It is reasonable that a choreographer will not make a connection between "steps in a video" and "a copyright" or "infringement issue" (unless it is noted on the video).

Plushenko's and Kostner's "Nizhinsky" programmes have exact copies of 3-4 moves from the "Faun" ballet.
Oksana Baul's "Dying Swan" has more than 8 element sequences from Anna Pavlova's ballet choreography.

The issue of using Michael Jackon's and Charlie Chaplin's "trade mark moves" is a gray area. But in the mind of a choreographer "here is a video of a choreography (which is obviously designed by someone)" and "here i am using a segment of it in a programme, and nobody complains".

When a pattern is established of "using videos with others' choreography in skating programmes without complaints", for so many years, it is reasonable to assume that "a video of someone dancing hip-hop" would be treated any differently in the mind of a choreographer. And that is what happened with Daniil.

There are many "dancing versions" of "Bad Guy". Over 15. JoJo's is just one of them. Most of the videos look like bunch of teenage girls/boys, or young adults, having a dance party, or a dance competition, or just dancing their school gym or studio, or girls showing off their dancing skills and abilities, or promoting themselves as dancers, or dance trainers.

None of these videos (en mass) look like a "business project with copyright issues" or "something of commercial value". I've shown these videos to people with legal background, and their reaction also was, pretty much "bunch of young people dancing". To the question "what about some titles of the videos saying Choreography By so-and-so", I received a number of legal explanations, which pretty much come down to "how much of the chore what used", "for what purpose (competition or not)", and that copyrighting choreography, or ethics issues of use, is a complex and a very tricky business.

Again, there are many "kids dancing to Big Guy, and doing choreography", en mass, they don't look like commercial projects, and "using few of their moves" does not ring a bell of "infringement on copyrights". JoJo's video is just one of them....

There are even Japanese anime dances..

Had Daniil even suspected a problem, he would not have OPENLY posted this foto over 2 months ago.
 

Tony Wheeler

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,313
I remember Zhiganshina/Gazsi with their zombie-esque free dance that most people loved, but that concept, to my knowledge, was first presented on an episode of So You Think You Can Dance?

Wasn’t Christopher Dean called out by Toller Cranston for his Duchesnay’s choreography?

People get ideas from others all the time. Daniil should have mentioned up front that the beginning choreography was an exact replica of someone else, but some of you here are really acting like he is the first person to be inspired by something else, and surely that has to do with a strong dislike for the skater/coach/camp/country etc.

I feel the worst for the lunatic skating fans that are blaming Zagitova and then the fans that are accusing Medvedeva of who knows what now. Let them skate, let Jojo take it up with Daniil and maybe eventually work it out with ideas for Alina.

Also, as already mentioned, Jojo is already wildly successful. She doesn’t need more attention. It isn’t a case of someone with 500 followers claiming someone famous stole their song lyrics or something. This is someone just raising awareness that it happens and that they would like the proper credit. Based on how the majority of people post here, I guarantee we would almost all want the exact same.
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
Messages
37,262
Love the song and Jojo's choreo. Alina doesn't do it justice but I can't imagine blaming her for this but Gleykh should have known better. I wonder if this will translate into Jojo getting to work with skaters? :watch:

ETA: Zagibots are out in force bullying Jojo on her Instagram in both Russian and English.
 
Last edited:

Perky Shae Lynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,958
Eteri's skaters are expected to show up and skate. I doubt Alina was asked for any input. She just executed the choreo she was given. Zagitova is a young girl and an athlete in training. I find it very difficult to hold her responsible. Daniil should have known better. The problem with this choreo (aside from the fact that it stinks) is that an entire sequence was copied. It's definitely a copyright issue. Copying moves from Swan Lake or traditional African dances is different: individual movements and steps are not copyrightable.

I really wish that this silly controversy didn't exist. To chose music that was publicly coveted by Medvedeva was so petty. Not to mention, this is not a good program and doesn't fit Alina. I personally would love to see something pretty and lyrical from her. Sweet, emotional, and soft - she'd be fabulous. But no. That would be too easy. Must play stupid games.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top