John Coughlin has died

[CaliSteve]

@Tony Wheeler I didn’t know you had a channel. I would love to watch. Can you provide a link? TIA

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP-_fFgw86VzObIbitxoXgA

 

[Sylvia]

Dylan Moscovitch: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3qgfCB6Ss/

 

[Rock2]

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-do-you-do-with-problem-like-rachel.html?m=1

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/recapping-nhk-ladies-tarasovas-mink.html?m=1

I never followed his blog and yes much more crass in that environment.
I can understand the sensitivity.

I'm sure there are people here who are more aware of his blog who would therefore read more into his TSL content than I might. Understandable. My frame of reference is the comparatively moderate content of the last few years. On that book of work alone I'm not too bothered.

 

[overedge]

@Rock2 Please. This is not about being "PC". It's about being mindful of word choices and being respectful of the impact that words might have - i. e. basic courtesy and thoughtfulness.

If TLC thinks that a race-based marketing strategy is a wrong choice, they could have said exactly that. And if they don't understand why what they said is problematic, IMO that shows they didn't do much research into the long history of how performers outside racial norms (and other kinds of norms) have been stereotyped and marginalized. Which is kind of important to know about in discussing the topic.

 

[Rock2]

Dylan Moscovitch: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3qgfCB6Ss/

Great stuff. I think anyone who knew John should be allowed to grieve and remember him the way they knew him. It's just not possible to take on the new information of the allegations (3, it seems, according to Brennan a few hrs ago) and reconcile that information with what they have known and seen for years, especially now that he's gone and the emotions are so raw.

Similarly, if you don't know John and/or you or someone you love has suffered abuse, you'll race to a different perspective. Again, understandable.

Just so sad all around. Sigh.

 

[CaliSteve]

I never followed his blog and yes much more crass in that environment.
I can understand the sensitivity.

I'm sure there are people here who are more aware of his blog who would therefore read more into his TSL content than I might. Understandable. My frame of reference is the comparatively moderate content of the last few years. On that book of work alone I'm not too bothered.

Word!

 

[Rock2]

@Rock2 Please. This is not about being "PC". It's about being mindful of word choices and being respectful of the impact that words might have - i. e. basic courtesy and thoughtfulness.

If TLC thinks that a race-based marketing strategy is a wrong choice, they could have said exactly that. And if they don't understand why what they said is problematic, IMO that shows they didn't do much research into the long history of how performers outside racial norms (and other kinds of norms) have been stereotyped and marginalized. Which is kind of important to know about in discussing the topic.

googled 'novelty act'. First thing that came up was a book. Second was this definition: something unusual and entertaining that is popular for a short period of time * shrug *

So it's fine if you're offended. I can't help that. I on the other hand will make a different choice of how to react to the term.

 

[Laura4]

From Ashley Cain:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3vRiWFDHU/

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

googled 'novelty act'. First thing that came up was a book. Second was this definition: something unusual and entertaining that is popular for a short period of time * shrug *

So it's fine if you're offended. I can't help that. I on the other hand will make a different choice of how to react to the term.

I will try to find Misty Copeland's quote on being called a novelty act in ballet, and how deeply hurt she was.

 

[Spun Silver]

I think TSL's bigger error was assuming there is a "race-based marketing strategy," based AFAIK on three music choices (one a classic by a Jewish composer), all well within the norm for elite skating programs. It was a bizarre take on Starr IMO and one of several reasons I stopped paying attention to them.

 

[overedge]

@Rock2 Google "novelty act" and "race" *together* and you will get a very different set of results. "novelty act" and "black performers" together will also produce some informative results.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

@Rock2 Google "novelty act" and "race" *together* and you will get a very different set of results. "novelty act" and "black performers" together will also produce some informative results.

You won't convince him. He doesn't get. I get it because well, I know a racial taunt when I see one.

 

[starrynight]

All the skaters have been placed in an impossible situation with this. Many reacted strongly with grief in a situation where they had no idea about any aspect of any accusations. Just that their good friend was dead.

Now they are feeling turmoil of trying to reconcile their memories with the accusations and on top of it they have become targets for online bullies virulently accusing them of all sorts of things that they would never have intentionally done.

Skaters have tweeted that they are confused, devastated and can’t sleep. Everything they thought they knew has been turned upside down. They also have to deal with online backlash.

The whole thing is a disaster that has badly impacted lots of people and the blast zone is big. It’s taking everyone down.

I’ve seen ‘hit lists’ circulating on social media of skaters who have tweeted or liked comments greiving his death. These hit lists have been created to start an online campaign against poor skaters who were just feeling human emotions. It’s awful. Adding another layer of abuse to this issue fixes nothing. I’m guessing the skaters were provided with no guidance or support on coping with or responding to the situation.

I feel sad for everyone. What a mess. It has affected so many people so badly. There are no winners here.

What I want to say is that people should try to be kind to the skaters who are also vulnerable now. Harassing greiving and confused skaters right this moment is more likely to create further unsafe and bad consequences than it is to address abuse issues. Harassing vulnerable skaters now doesn’t make a person a champion against abuse ... quite the opposite actually.

I hope the various Feds offer support to their skaters who are also suffering now and facing backlash that they are probably not used to.

 

[Tinami Amori]

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-do-you-do-with-problem-like-rachel.html?m=1

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/recapping-nhk-ladies-tarasovas-mink.html?m=1

This is "sweet cakes" compared to what is posted about skaters on datalounge.com, and the language that is used..

 

[supergirl573]

@Rock2 Google "novelty act" and "race" and you'll find lots of information on why the term is problematic in this context, regardless of how Andrews' team has decided to promote her. TSL could have used other words to get their point across, but they didn't. IMO it's not minor.

I’m a Black woman, I’m aware of the meaning. However, it was in the context of her team focusing on packaging and going viral again over fixing the glaring deficiencies in her jumping technique and skating skills.

Many of the times when people discuss the things that DL says, they are removing context or the extrapolating meaning that isn’t there to form a narrative to the point where I believe that they are being purposefully obtuse and obfuscating the truth, which ironically is what DL is accused of. You may not like the delivery of how he says things or what he says, but many of the things that he says are things that people say on here or Golden Skate (and it is often meaner on here or GS) and then they pretend it is an outrage when DL says it. While the critique that he receives the most controversy isn’t always nice, it is often right.

 

[overedge]

I heard all of what was said on TSL and I stand by what I said about it.

 

[morgan rye]

The skating lesson wanted him crucified by his peers prior to the investigation being complete. This is why waiting until ALL THE FACTS are out there is important

christine brennan and TSL did not want him crucified by his peers. that is a ridiculous statement. what possible reason???? you are simply wrong. the blame i think rather lies with safe sport and how they have chosen to release information before they have investigated and made a final decision. the saying ' a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' can apply here. better to investigate and then tell all. they need to seriously re evaluate how they are operating. with social media the consequences can be dire.

 

[TallyT]

the blame i think rather lies with safe sport and how they have chosen to release information before they have investigated and made a final decision. the saying ' a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' can apply here. better to investigate and then tell all.

And how exactly were they supposed to do that? They did investigate and it seems for some months, but certainly with the latest reports, either he or the minors involved - plus any other young people who might or might not be at risk for all everyone knew - HAD to be removed from the situation. Were you a parent of any of these, wouldn't you expect - no, demand it?

The minute that was being done... cat's out of the bag, and the story can't be withheld.

I repeat again, there was and is NO EASY ANSWER, and probably no course of action that would protect and satisfy everyone involved.

 

[caseyedwards]

The system worked as it was supposed to!! Believe all allegations and seek to destroy the life of the person accused! That’s the new system!

 

[CaliSteve]

This is "sweet cakes" compared to what is posted about skaters on datalounge.com, and the language that is used..

Your not kidding.

 

[caseyedwards]

christine brennan and TSL did not want him crucified by his peers. that is a ridiculous statement. what possible reason???? you are simply wrong. the blame i think rather lies with safe sport and how they have chosen to release information before they have investigated and made a final decision. the saying ' a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' can apply here. better to investigate and then tell all. they need to seriously re evaluate how they are operating. with social media the consequences can be dire.

He should never have been put on the “larry Nassar list” until there was some solid public allegations from named people with dates

 

[CaliSteve]

He should never have been put on the “larry Nassar list” until there was some solid public allegations from named people with dates

So your saying that the accusers need to go public?

 

[caseyedwards]

So your saying that the accusers need to go public?

Yes. Time for secrecy is over. It’s not fair for one side to be public and the other secret.

 

[princeton123]

Yes. Time for secrecy is over. It’s not fair for one side to be public and the other secret.

That is unspeakably cruel to the victims and will do nothing but ensure no one comes forward in the future.

 

[suef]

I read a Facebook post last night that said something along the lines of "The name of the accuser should be released, and that person should be punished for false accusations. Safe Sport, PSA and USFSA should be responsible as well." This woman works with children at an ice-rink.

 

[Eisfee]

From Ashley Cain:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3vRiWFDHU/

This brought me to tears...

 

[LarrySK8]

The people attacking the tributes from skaters on Instagram are really stupid, careless people. They keep saying, "sexual assault" rather than "sexual misconduct" and assault is quite different from misconduct.

For example - two minors could have been in his sphere of influence. The minors could be overweight or unattractive. He could have said, "with a big butt like that no guy will date you." That would qualify as "sexual misconduct." He could have said a remark that was overheard by a parent, such as, "nice boobs." That would qualify.

We don't know what he was accused of or by whom.

Let the tributes come as they may, and let grieving happen. The response outside FSU demonstrates my prior point that he was convicted by the public as soon as SafeSport published their suspension.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

The people attacking the tributes from skaters on Instagram are really stupid, careless people. They keep saying, "sexual assault" rather than "sexual misconduct" and assault is quite different from misconduct.

Sexual assault is just that. Sexual touching or act without consent. Sexual misconduct can be unwelcome dirty jokes. Yet public opinion is formed that John was a child molester. I have seen pedophile, pervert, rapist, child rapist comments. And this is why releasing information, while the right thing to do, is also so damaging to the accused. Words are a weapon in the hands of misinformed, ill-intended and ignorant. But what's the alternative? If there is a concern about safety / potential future victims, something has to be done. The Nassar situation proved that such safeguards are necessary.

 

[Rob]

The gymnast Alex Naddour was suspended after accusations of sexual misconduct came in to Safe sport. At the time, his dad posted that Alex had no idea was this was about. He was later cleared and reinstated after an investigation. Suspension is not to be equated with guilt.

 

[zoe111]

The gymnast Alex Naddour was suspended after accusations of sexual misconduct came in to Safe sport. At the time, his dad posted that Alex had no idea was this was about. He was later cleared and reinstated after an investigation. Suspension is not to be equated with guilt.

And this is what I worry about. I don't think John would have posted that he didn't know the accusation details if he didn't know them. Sexual misconduct can literally be 'too crude of sexual jokes' or whatever. This is not suggesting accusers don't need to be heard and protected. But the court of internet opinion on John is out of control when no one knows squat except that there are 3 filings of 'sexual misconduct'. I honestly think they should finish the investigation. If there's something there, there's closure for the accusers. If not, some closure for the family and John's name.