John Coughlin has died

[Simone411]

OMG, I just read the news on my browser and had to come here to extend my condolences to John & his family & friends. *tears*

I'll never forget his power & beauty on the ice with his partners, memorable routines, so glad I got to see him skate in person at Skate America. Such a lovely person, truly sad, heartbreaking....

"blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God"

You came like I did yesterday when I first saw the title of this thread and gave your condolences to his family and friends. You saw beauty in John's skating as did I. I am so thankful that I'm still around to go back and watch videos of his skating. I will always have fond memories of John. I will always appreciate the happiness it brought me and others just to see him skate.

I will miss him, and may he rest in peace. And may God bless.

 

[Vash01]

I am in Detroit. I will so miss not getting my John Coughlin hug this year.

I was wondering how this sad news has affected those at the US nationals right now. Has it put a damper on the excitement there or is it business as usual?

I hope something positive will be done there for John, like a minute of silence, showing his two US nationals championship performances, John as a commentator, etc.

It breaks my heart to think how much he must have suffered before he decided to end his life.

 

[MsZem]

Nate Bartholomay reached out to John in early January and shared their exchange of text messages in the second photo: https://www.instagram.com/p/BsztAunnqeD/

Alexa Scimeca-Knierim posted this exchange yesterday.

Leaving aside the facts of the case (which will hopefully become known in due time), quite a few people have lost someone who clearly meant a lot to them, and they're grieving. For those who knew both John Coughlin and Denis Ten well, this must be a really tough few months.

 

[eurodance2001]

KMT sharing memories and getting bashed for it even though I thought her memory and her subsequent dialogue was carefully written..

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs2zrP6HTwG/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=tzuqcc2byfc3

 

[kittyjake5]

There is a reason I am not on social media.

I am glad that the GofundMe account has raised the money needed by John's family.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

KMT sharing memories and getting bashed for it even though I thought her memory and her subsequent dialogue was carefully written..

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs2zrP6HTwG/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=tzuqcc2byfc3

I don't know what John did or did not do. I do find this bashing horrendous. People should be able to grieve those they loved without being dragged through mud.

 

[yfbg722]

I don't know what John did or did not do. I do find this bashing horrendous. People should be able to grieve those they loved without being dragged through mud.

Agreed. I am no KMT fan but that last poster went too far. John was friends with almost everyone in the skating world. It is hard to find someone from within that world who didn't like him. So today there are many grieving, as is quite expected when someone so young takes their own life. And people need to remember we don't know either the accuser(s) nor the true nature of the accusations but many of us did know John. Of course that's where our sympathies are going to lie until such time that the full truth is known. And even then, because John was good to many people and they have many fond memories of him, they will continue to grieve the John they knew.

 

[clairecloutier]

Agreed. I am no KMT fan but that last poster went too far. John was friends with almost everyone in the skating world. It is hard to find someone from within that world who didn't like him. So today there are many grieving, as is quite expected when someone so young takes their own life. And people need to remember we don't know either the accuser(s) nor the true nature of the accusations but many of us did know John. Of course that's where our sympathies are going to lie until such time that the full truth is known. And even then, because John was good to many people and they have many fond memories of him, they will continue to grieve the John they knew.

That last poster's remarks were fairly restrained, compared to much of what I saw on Twitter yesterday.

 

[once_upon]

It's obvious that John was well liked and many are grieving. In my mind, that does not negate what any accuser has gone through.
Both situations are awful. As I said earlier everyone is hurting. Closure is not likely to happen for the accuser and definitely suicide has no closure for his family and friends.

 

[Tinami Amori]

RIP... is all one can say.

 

[tony]

A few thoughts, most of which have probably been already posted in the same or different words.

First- the trolling happening on social media against the skaters and others who choose to remember John in the only (positive) ways they knew him is obviously absolutely ridiculous. No one knows any details about this case (aside from the people who initially reported him), and none of us have been presented with any evidence. I really hate that people can hide behind usernames sometimes, because a quick look at the KMT basher's profile shows they have 0 posts (no photos, nothing) and probably just enjoy stirring things up with comments such as that.

The world is quick to judge people based on their appearance and their likability factor, or lack thereof. There are certain people involved in this sport that I guarantee, if some minute detail such as an 'under investigation' flag came out, many people even on this board would IMMEDIATELY believe the absolute worst just because of their preconceptions and say things like 'That's no surprise' or 'I knew it!!'. But is that fair to do? Nope.

Then there are those who we say 'No, they never could have done anything bad' because of preconceptions. The point is that you never know what is going on inside someone's head regardless of any traits that might be displayed out in the open-- whether the intentions are really good-spirited or in fact very evil.

Christine Blasey Ford didn't win in her efforts against Brett Kavanaugh, but we saw nearly the entire public find her story to be credible from the beginning because she was well-spoken. Kavanaugh did no favors during some of the hearings with his outbursts, but those alone, nor Blasey Ford's credibility factor == guilty. Some people may see that as a man versus woman thing and taking sides or choosing to allow the sexual assault culture to exist or whatever, but we just CAN'T assume anything-- ever.

Anyways, there's a lot of TSL hate through these threads and by now most everyone knows I am no big fan of the message Dave is spreading about the sport he supposedly loves so much. He's always taken the Perez Hilton/TMZ route, but from what I've seen, I don't think anything was really over the line this time. Comments such as a few weeks ago telling everyone to go look up Vincent Restencourt's past record, though, go back to that 'I know something and I want you to know that I know it' and that's what bothers me, as are previous comments he (back in the days with Jenny) made regarding skaters and their physical conditions. I know he's still in touch with former skaters/parents/people in the sport that have a chips on their shoulders for one reason or another, and a lot of his information seems to come from those very people that just want to take everyone else/the USFSA/the sport down and want in on all the gossip.

As a final note, John Coughlin was scheduled to preview US Nationals with me on my own Youtube channel-- something that had been discussed prior to any of this coming out. RIP.

 

[FiveRinger]

@Tony Wheeler I didn’t know you had a channel. I would love to watch. Can you provide a link? TIA

 

[Sylvia]

As a final note, John Coughlin was scheduled to preview US Nationals with me on my own Youtube channel-- something that had been discussed prior to any of this coming out. RIP.

For @FiveRinger: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/new-webcast-skate-talk-online-with-tony-wheeler.104538/

 

[Rock2]

All other issues aside. TSL serves to glamorourise bullying and meaness in figure skating. The example he sets for the sport is dreadful.

This is a very complex and sensitive issue and the stakes are high for everyone. TSL should not be allowed a mile near it.

So on the second point you believe in censoring freedom of speech? Troubling.

Listen, this is a very sensitive topic. I get it. And let me be clear I have never met Dave or Jonathan or exchanged any messages with either of them. Ever. But I'm going to be devil's advocate here.

I see see TSL as anything but perfect but they are willing to take on important topics that others won't go near. Further, I see them as being more willing than most to have an opinion on a subject that might not be popular. I find that when this happens people accuse them of being mean and bullying etc etc and I see that as a knee-jerk response to them saying something about a skater that is liked. Just how it occurs to me.

Candidly I tend to agree with their perspective on a fair number of topics and athletes.

But, I don't want to be unwilling to change my point of view. To that end, for my learning, can someone share a quote of theirs that is inappropriate or constitutes bullying or glamorization thereof? I have asked in the past, yet no one has shared anything so I just assume the allegations are unfounded and they just aren't liked in a more general sense. Curious to see/read/view some specifics of how this opinion has been formed.

 

[overedge]

@Rock2 TSL calling Starr Andrews a "novelty act", with all the demeaning racial implications of that term, would be one example.

 

[dee342]

@Rock2 TSL calling Starr Andrews a "novelty act", with all the demeaning racial implications of that term, would be one example.

Probably going to get attacked for saying this and it's off topic but I'm going to say it anyway. As a black person, when I watch the media's coverage of Starr Andrews I just cringe and turn down the sound. Maybe this person calling her a novelty act is because the media treats her as such?

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

So on the second point you believe in censoring freedom of speech? Troubling.

Hold your horses. If starrynight doesn't think a notorious skating bully should have been involved in this case, she/he believes in censoring freedom of speech? What are we doing bullying each other in this thread? I am sorry, but this is just horrendous.

 

[Rock2]

@Rock2 TSL calling Starr Andrews a "novelty act", with all the demeaning racial implications of that term, would be one example.

Thanks!

'Novelty act' to me feels really minor. Not gonna lie.

And IIRC the discussion about race was them actually questioning the merit of an articulated strategy of her team to only select music and packaging that had a racial connection. I thought it was a fair question about such a narrow focus. They didn't start the race conversation; they were reacting to one that was created by Starr's team.

Different takeaways.
At some point I'll go back and review to see if I'm remembering incorrectly.

 

[overedge]

Probably going to get attacked for saying this and it's off topic but I'm going to say it anyway. As a black person, when I watch the media's coverage of Starr Andrews I just cringe and turn down the sound. Maybe this person calling her a novelty act is because the media treats her as such?

TSL called her this as part of a rather critical discussion of her skating in general, so I don't think they were influenced by how other media outlets treat her. IMO they also appeared not to understand why that specific term, in the context of discussing that skater, might not be the best choice of words.

 

[Rock2]

Probably going to get attacked for saying this and it's off topic but I'm going to say it anyway. As a black person, when I watch the media's coverage of Starr Andrews I just cringe and turn down the sound. Maybe this person calling her a novelty act is because the media treats her as such?

Very fair point to raise. Surya suffered from this, partially because of the narrative Didier created.
There's a parallel with Starr. TSL's discussion as pointed out in my other post was in the context of a strategy shared by her team to be race based.

 

[Lanie]

@Rock2 TSL calling Starr Andrews a "novelty act", with all the demeaning racial implications of that term, would be one example.

Or all the time he spent mocking many, many female skaters for their looks and weight between Aunt Joyce's Ice Cream Stand and TSL once Jenny left. Not just skaters, but gymnasts, too. Snark is snark but that went far beyond snark into bullying and nastiness that hurt many people.

 

[overedge]

@Rock2 Google "novelty act" and "race" and you'll find lots of information on why the term is problematic in this context, regardless of how Andrews' team has decided to promote her. TSL could have used other words to get their point across, but they didn't. IMO it's not minor.

 

[CaliSteve]

I don't know what John did or did not do. I do find this bashing horrendous. People should be able to grieve those they loved without being dragged through mud.

The bashing comes from all sides and its unfortunate.

 

[Rob]

Looks like the same person who is bashing both KMT and Alexa.

 

[Rock2]

Hold your horses. If starrynight doesn't think a notorious skating bully should have been involved in this case, she/he believes in censoring freedom of speech?

100%
For two reasons:
1. He is not a confirmed notorious skating bully. Matter of opinion. I have asked for evidence. It's early so far but none provided. I don't promote bullying but you and I may have different definitions.
2. Freedom of speech can only be censored if there is outright and direct promotion of violence or harm to a person. This does not include comments that upset people to the point of causing harm. There has to be clear call to go out and harm people.

So no you can't deny him access to this topic at present but that may change in the future. I can however appreciate that you don't like what he has to say and you're welcome to dislike him all you want, and share that you do.
But officially for now, depending on what country you live in, you might have to hold your own horses for the time being. Sorry.

 

[overedge]

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-do-you-do-with-problem-like-rachel.html?m=1

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/recapping-nhk-ladies-tarasovas-mink.html?m=1

 

[Rafter]

KMT sharing memories and getting bashed for it even though I thought her memory and her subsequent dialogue was carefully written..

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs2zrP6HTwG/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=tzuqcc2byfc3

Brilliant response from Mervin Tran!

Rest In Peace, John Coughlin. So incredibly sad.

ETA: KMT should block that troll from seeing her Insta page.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

100%
For two reasons:
1. He is not a confirmed notorious skating bully. Matter of opinion. I have asked for evidence. It's early so far but none provided. I don't promote bullying but you and I may have different definitions.
2. Freedom of speech can only be censored if there is outright and direct promotion of violence or harm to a person. This does not include comments that upset people to the point of causing harm. There has to be clear call to go out and harm people.

So no you can't deny him access to this topic at present but that may change in the future. I can however appreciate that you don't like what he has to say and you're welcome to dislike him all you want, and share that you do.
But officially for now, depending on what country you live in, you might have to hold your own horses for the time being. Sorry.

You don't need to be sorry. It's your opinion. Bullying is indeed a matter of opinion. Our definitions seem to be completely different, and it's ok. I also regret that this particular group of people was involved in this sensitive and difficult case. I will put it this way: I would not want them anywhere near me or my girls under any circumstances.

 

[millyskate]

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/what-do-you-do-with-problem-like-rachel.html?m=1

http://auntjoycesicecreamstand.blogspot.com/2010/10/recapping-nhk-ladies-tarasovas-mink.html?m=1

That's beyond dreadful. I'm surprised even he left those up online.

 

[Rock2]

@Rock2 Google "novelty act" and "race" and you'll find lots of information on why the term is problematic in this context, regardless of how Andrews' team has decided to promote her. TSL could have used other words to get their point across, but they didn't. IMO it's not minor.

I think in the context of the conversation it's a fair comment.
Didier did no favors to Surya by packaging her with some fake racial narrative about her history in Reunion Island and deep African descent. For that and other valid skating reasons the media and establishment never took her seriously and treated her like an outsider.

The media is starting to go down that path with Starr as has been pointed out. Given the packaging strategy and where this seems to be leading I would consider it a valid risk that she be considered a novelty act and not seen on a level playing field with the rest of the contenders. Valid caution.

I'll try to think of a better phrase than 'novelty act' but so far that seems to be the most appropriate. I'll see what I can come up with that you might find more PC but nothing at present.