ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[starrynight]

If they’re in Uzbekistan, they’re out of Russia. Uzbekistan is a sovereign nation…like Ukraine.

Oh yes of course. When I said ‘left Russia’ I was thinking more as to whether they’ve ~left~ as in run away or if they were still participating in the Russian system. I was kind of wondering if the Tashkent palace was like a holiday home and if it meant anything that they were there. Cause it would be a huge deal if Viner bailed on her gymnasts.

 

[Bigbird]

Translation of Katsalapov's Speech from yesterday (no idea if its accurate). This is not what I would be saying if i really supported an active "special operation"

"I want to thank everyone who really cares about sports. For all of us, both for athletes and for fans, this is especially important today.

It is very important for me to compete at international competitions under the flag of my homeland. There should be no politics in sports. Sport is the world. Sport is the friendship of athletes from all countries. Sport is life."

I have taken my time to try to understand his mind set and I can only say this: are all Russian athletes oblivious to not only the impact of the war or that their colleague was caught with a banned substance? How can there be any friendship and trust without good sportsmanship? Or is it that these are not issues for him. It's confusing.

It appears to me that certain elites within Russian figure skating community wholeheartedly agree that the substances found in Valieva are needed to protect the heart given the number of hours they put in training. Zhulin has pretty much said these drugs are harmless: when Bobrova was detected with meldonium his only concern was for the timing of it all. The ISU and WADA should have banned Russia from the international arena years ago, because it seems that doping is entrenched within the system. Those athletes averse to these aspects of training are called fragile while those willing to violate the code of sportsmanship are labelled heros. It remains to be seen though how Eteri will be punished internally for being caught. This, this is no longer sport but something savage like the Hunger Games.

 

[gralha]

Just curious if former US National ice dance champ Peter Tchernichev is still in Russia? He starred in the last Navka show, Swan Lake (maybe others) & was a prominent choreographer in Russia. Surely Peter is still a dual passport holder. Did or will he return to US?

I don't think Pyotr can seriously consider anything of the kind. His wife has been very sick (to put it mildly) for about three years now and is hardly transportable. Basically it's thanks to the presumably lucrative contracts he has with Tatyana Navka that he's been able to keep his wife alive. Quite literally, it must be costing a fortune to provide all the medical assistance a person in that condition needs.

 

[soogar]

I've always wondered how other foreign skaters find money to train abroad (and not everyone has rich parents or a rich federation) and only Russians can't afford it.

Vladimir said that they received money to train from Kazan, the city where Yevgenia is from. The city/region sponsored their training. This was in the recent interview that was posted on IG. That’s why they went there to attend
the open training with the kids and be honored. They are not the most charismatic couple and they haven’t won a World Championship. I don’t know how much they could have made from shows. Both of them have nice cars on their IGs, but they could have been given those cars as prizes/incentives.

I think people here are overstating these athletes’ financial worth. Also whether they would even keep a large amount of liquid assets on hand to flee the country.

I don’t think they were forced to attend this rally. There are other videos of Yevgenia joyfully singing the anthem.

 

[Mme Bovary]

I have taken my time to try to understand his mind set and I can only say this: are all Russian athletes oblivious to not only the impact of the war or that there colleague was caught with a banned substance? How can there be any friendship and trust without good sportsmanship? Or is it that these are not issues for him. It's confusing.

It appears to me that certain elites within Russian figure skating community wholeheartedly agree that the substances found in Valieva are needed to protect the heart given the number of hours they put in training. Zhulin has pretty much said these drugs are harmless: when Bobrova was detected with meldonium his only concern was for the timing of it all. The ISU and WADA should have banned Russia from the international arena years ago, because it seems that doping is entrenched within the system. Those athletes averse to these aspects of training are called fragile while those willing to violate the code of sportsmanship are labelled heros. It remains to be seen though how Eteri will be punished internally by being caught. This, this is no longer sport but something savage like the Hunger Games.

I think it's a very different mindset from yours or mine and I'm truly glad the ISU (and other governing bodies) put some sort of a stop to it. There's just no more point in wasting their energy trying to keep Russia in check, nor putting other nations' athletes at risk while trying to compete clean. It's a shame years of confessions and proof weren't enough, they needed Russia to start an actual war in the 21st century to react.

 

[airgelaal]

Vladimir said that they received money to train from Kazan, the city where Yevgenia is from. The city/region sponsored their training. This was in the recent interview that was posted on IG. That’s why they went there to attend
the open training with the kids and be honored. They are not the most charismatic couple and they haven’t won a World Championship. I don’t know how much they could have made from shows. Both of them have nice cars on their IGs, but they could have been given those cars as prizes/incentives.

I think people here are overstating these athletes’ financial worth. Also whether they would even keep a large amount of liquid assets on hand to flee the country.

I don’t think they were forced to attend this rally. There are other videos of Yevgenia joyfully singing the anthem.

I remember Michal Brezina once said in an interview that he couldn't afford to change 2 programs every season because it was too expensive. And training in the USA was expensive for a skater who didn’t even have serious medals then.
So, as for me, the only question is what skaters are ready to give up. And it seems that Russian skaters are the least willing to give up something. Not before, not now.

 

[alice73]

These skaters were not forced. If they had refused, they might’ve met with some disapproval but there was no threat to their lives/livelihood. Going to the war rally was an expression of national pride and patriotism for them. After the break up of USSR, Russia was economically in shambles and a loser in the Cold War, their confidence as a nation being very low, similar to Germany post WW1. Putin’s policy was always built on restoring Russian national pride and self esteem in the aftermath of chaos Russia went through in the 90s. National pride is now a prominent part of Russian culture to the point that it justifies invasion and war. Again, very similar to how Germans felt in the lead up to WW2.
I actually don’t judge those who want to continue watching Russian skaters. I think it’s a personal decision. But I will not watch.

 

[skategal]

I’m wondering why Trusova and Scherbokova were not at the rally?

Surely they would have wanted their OGM to attend?

She was not forced to attend?

Was she allowed to decline?

Is she busy doing something else?

Was Eteri able to protect Anna and Sasha from this mess but not T/M?

Enquiring minds want to know….

 

[ChelleC]

I’m wondering why Trusova and Scherbokova were not at the rally?

Surely they would have wanted their OGM to attend?

Possibly because they are still minors.

 

[gralha]

I’m wondering why Trusova and Scherbokova were not at the rally?

Surely they would have wanted their OGM to attend?

She was not forced to attend?

Was she allowed to decline?

Is she busy doing something else?

Was Eteri able to protect Anna and Sasha from this mess but not T/M?

Enquiring minds want to know….

Being otherwise engaged wouldn't be a valid excuse). One of the participants actually had to skip the skiing race (over 600 miles away from Moscow) he was initially supposed to take part in on the same day... and then was very quickly sent back by plane just in time for the next race.
As for the young ladies in question, someone might have decided it wasn't a very good idea to engage minors this time - which both Anya and Sasha technically are at the moment. Anya will be 18 in about a week, and Sasha is a bit younger.

 

[Frau Muller]

I don't think Pyotr can seriously consider anything of the kind. His wife has been very sick (to put it mildly) for about three years now and is hardly transportable. Basically it's thanks to the presumably lucrative contracts he has with Tatyana Navka that he's been able to keep his wife alive. Quite literally, it must be costing a fortune to provide all the medical assistance a person in that condition needs.

I didn’t even know that he was married or had any family in Russia, Thanks for the clarification. I thought that he was there just for the career.

 

[gralha]

I didn’t even know that he was married or had any family in Russia, Thanks for the clarification. I thought that he was there just for the career.

Married for more than 13 years. Their daughter is three and a half now.

https://www.vokrug.tv/pic/news/7/2/2/d/722dc41d68d12a6b748258af01f69156.jpg
That's around the time his wife was diagnosed(

 

[Bouffantrex]

There do seem to be a lot of people sincerely convinced they’re fighting nazis.

Of course they do. One third of America's population sincerely thinks Trump won re-election over Biden. This is not a problem unique to Russia.

The point I was trying to make yesterday is that we simply don't know the financial situation of these skaters. They are in a state-sponsored skating program (and some in a state-sponsored doping program) and I do not think it's unreasonable to believe there is some amount of pressure for them to attend these rallies. And of course, I'm sure some of them are 100% believing the propaganda.

I'm no Russian apologist. To be frank I am very much looking forward to a World Championships without their corruption and baggage, particularly in ladies. Having said that, it's easy to condemn these skaters when you're thousands of miles away and have no idea of their financial situation or ties to the government. Of course it's disappointing to see skaters like Tarasova/Morozov at this rally, but I still maintain the amount of rage and angst I've seen here and on twitter is disproportionate.

 

[Trillian]

I have taken my time to try to understand his mind set and I can only say this: are all Russian athletes oblivious to not only the impact of the war or that there colleague was caught with a banned substance?

They really are oblivious, yes. I think a lot of people don’t understand the degree to which many of these athletes live in a completely different reality than we do. They don’t have the same information about the world as most of us do. Even for the ones who’ve traveled or trained abroad, that might not make a ton of impact if they were still primarily consuming Russian media and the people closest to them were in the same informational bubble.

People who have access to different information don’t always go looking for it. Most people don’t think outside the box that much. Frankly, with a few exceptions, in my interactions with elite figure skaters, a lot of them are not particularly curious about the world outside skating.

Even though it’s a different situation, I recommend reading or listening to some of what Megan Phelps-Roper has said about her understanding of the world before and after she left the Westboro Baptist Church (which she was born into). Sometimes people who genuinely want to do good and make the world a better place can end up doing absolutely horrific things instead. It’s not because they don’t want to do the right thing, it’s because this is genuinely what they think it means to do the right thing.

Changing a person’s entire framework for understanding the world isn’t easy, it isn’t always possible, and it doesn’t happen overnight. Many Russian people might never land on the right side of this, but I hope some of them eventually will. Intellectual curiosity and engaging with people who have different experiences of the world will go a long way.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I believe it is the same for dual citizens of any country that requires a visa.

A friend says the rule of thumb is: always present the passport of the country that the officer in front of you represents.

I've never had to show my US passport to a border official to leave the US, nor my Canadian passport to leave Canada. Where I've done the border crossing in a Canadian airport or railway station that has border crossing to the US in Canada, I've had to show my US Passport, but that's true of every entry in the US.

Airlines might check with varying degrees of scrutiny, but that's to avoid hassles, costs, and fines for letting people on planes with invalid or missing credentials. And even then, if you have multiple passports, the gate agents don't necessarily know this.

 

[Carolla5501]

I've never had to show my US passport to a border official to leave the US, nor my Canadian passport to leave Canada. Where I've done the border crossing in a Canadian airport or railway station that has border crossing to the US in Canada, I've had to show my US Passport, but that's true of every entry in the US.

Airlines might check with varying degrees of scrutiny, but that's to avoid hassles, costs, and fines for letting people on planes with invalid or missing credentials. And even then, if you have multiple passports, the gate agents don't necessarily know this.

Actually you have had to show it to leave the US. In the US verification of passport and other documentation has been delegated to the airlines. Which means they have to verify you have the right documents to leave the country.


And in the US they don’t really get hung up on which passport you have. Other countries are different

 

[olympic]

For those that feel the aforementioned RUS skaters were under threat to attend Putin's rally: Many rank-and-file RUS citizens walked out after showing up at the rally w/o wearing a 'Z' on their clothes. So, I lean towards believing that they weren't forced. They weren't scowling or sad in the photos circulating online

 

[skategal]

Possibly because they are still minors.

Makes sense.

I’m going to go with the “Eteri protected them because they are minors” theory as I’m not sure the Russian government would come up with that on their own.

 

[Vagabond]

For those that feel the aforementioned RUS skaters were under threat to attend Putin's rally: Many rank-and-file RUS citizens walked out after showing up at the rally w/o wearing a 'Z' on their clothes. So, I lean towards believing that they weren't forced. They weren't scowling or sad in the photos circulating online

Russian citizens continue to protest war with Ukraine despite threat of punishment

Elissa Nadworny speaks with Leonid Drabkin of the Russian human rights media project OVD-Info, about how Russian citizens are continuing to protest the war despite the threat of punishment.

www.npr.org

Drabkin says that some people who attended the rally report having been paid the equivlent of ten euros to attend. It's far more likely that the figure skaters were given incentives to attend rather than threats of what would happen if they did not.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Which means they have to verify you have the right documents to leave the country.

I never knew that according to the Immigration and Nationality Act 8 USC 1185

(b) Citizens​

Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.

There are a bunch of amendments, including removing the penalties, trusted traveler and other eligible documentation updates as new docs, trusted traveler, Real ID etc. have impacted travel, but the law is the same.

I certainly have never been asked to show my US Passport when leaving the US whether by air, train, bus, ship, or car to travel to Canada, where I show my Canadian passport -- which clearly states I was born in the US, almost a guarantee of dual citizenship in this day and age -- as my required (realtime or eventual) entry document by Canadian law.

It certainly makes sense for those in Russia holding multiple passports to exit into a country that doesn't require a Russian visa using that country's passport.

 

[olympic]

Russian citizens continue to protest war with Ukraine despite threat of punishment

Elissa Nadworny speaks with Leonid Drabkin of the Russian human rights media project OVD-Info, about how Russian citizens are continuing to protest the war despite the threat of punishment.

www.npr.org

Drabkin says that some people who attended the rally report having been paid the equivlent of ten euros to attend. It's far more likely that the figure skaters were given incentives to attend rather than threats of what would happen if they did not.

Which kills any defense of their actions. FTR, I always felt that Katsalapov was a complete douche

 

[once_upon]

I have to wonder about the skaters who think that ice shoes are lucrative in Russia. The ruble is not worth much, inflation in Russia is only going to rise as goods become even more scare, the war will continue to drive more sanctions, etc

Exactly who will be able to afford entertainment prices? Who will make up audiences?

 

[Vagabond]

Pedestrians crossing from San Diego to Tijuana go through a turnstile. There is no passport control on either side, but I have seen Mexican customs officers ask people who look like they are Mexican citizens to show what is in their bags.

 

[once_upon]

I never knew that according to the Immigration and Nationality Act 8 USC 1185


There are a bunch of amendments, including removing the penalties, trusted traveler and other eligible documentation updates as new docs, trusted traveler, Real ID etc. have impacted travel, but the law is the same.

I certainly have never been asked to show my US Passport when leaving the US whether by air, train, bus, ship, or car to travel to Canada, where I show my Canadian passport -- which clearly states I was born in the US, almost a guarantee of dual citizenship in this day and age -- as my required (realtime or eventual) entry document by Canadian law.

It certainly makes sense for those in Russia holding multiple passports to exit into a country that doesn't require a Russian visa using that country's passport.

I've always had to show/provide my passport when flying out of the country and on reentry.

Back in the 70's I had to have my birth certificate available to travel into Canada and Mexico. Being Caucasian, blonde, blue eyes, English speaking, I never needed to show it to border patrol. But that was just Canada and Mexico in the 70's. Since the late 90's, passports required.

 

[alexikeguchi]

This NY Times article (which I hopefully gifted properly) contains interviews of young professionals who left Russia, and none of them described limitations on getting out other than finding and paying for a flight. In addition, most of them would fall into the category of economic migrants rather than political refugees, as they're either employed by international companies or work with international clients and can no longer get paid with sanctions. So it seems even from people who can talk relatively more freely outside of Russia that there are not necessarily hordes of people fleeing because they disagree with Putin.

Possibly because they are still minors.

I was reading through a Reddit forum about the participation of the Averinas, and there were photos of the team OGM gymnasts Listunova and Urazova in their uniforms with medals and Zs; so apparently minors were allowed/invited. I honestly don't expect to see any of the women (girls) on the 2022 Russian team compete internationally again, but it seems they did exercise a choice not to attend and correspondingly that the skaters who did participate also exercised a free choice.

 

[aka_gerbil]

I certainly have never been asked to show my US Passport when leaving the US whether by air, train, bus, ship, or car to travel to Canada, where I show my Canadian passport -- which clearly states I was born in the US, almost a guarantee of dual citizenship in this day and age -- as my required (realtime or eventual) entry document by Canadian law.

I’ve made 3 trips to Canada and all 3, I’ve had to show my passport multiple times before leaving the US. They ask for the number when booking. I have to show it when checking in at my local airport. If my first flight is to a location where I change planes in the US, I don’t have to show it for the first flight, but have to present it when getting on the second flight actually landing in Canada. The time I changed planes after getting to Canada, they checked my passport boarding the first flight. None of Air Canada, Delta, or United have let me on a flight landing in Canada without me showing them my passport twice.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I’ve made 3 trips to Canada and all 3, I’ve had to show my passport multiple times before leaving the US. They ask for the number when booking. I have to show it when checking in at my local airport. If my first flight is to a location where I change planes in the US, I don’t have to show it for the first flight, but have to present it when getting on the second flight actually landing in Canada. The time I changed planes after getting to Canada, they checked my passport boarding the first flight. None of Air Canada, Delta, or United have let me on a flight landing in Canada without me showing them my passport twice.

Do you hold both US and Canadian passports?

 

[aka_gerbil]

Do you hold both US and Canadian passports?

No, just the US one, but at least when boarding, they make an announcement for everyone to have passports out and open to the photo page, even children. It’s been 3 different airports too. They make sure everyone getting on the plane has their passport, no matter what country it’s from. I’ve seen people with Canadian passports out to show when boarding.

 

[MsZem]

I am not sure how people's experiences crossing the US-Mexico border with an American passport has any relevance to the experiences of Russians currently trying to go elsewhere.

And we may never know which skaters were thrilled to be at that rally (other than some obvious ones) and which were forced to pretend.

 

[kwanfan1818]

No, just the US one, but at least when boarding, they make an announcement for everyone to have passports out and open to the photo page, even children. It’s been 3 different airports too. They make sure everyone getting on the plane has their passport, no matter what country it’s from. I’ve seen people with Canadian passports out to show when boarding.

How do you know they're checking your passport because you're leaving the country, or to meet their legal obligation to be sure you have the right to enter the country of destination, or they will be fined and eat the cost of sending you back?

You don't. Because, for you, a US passport covers both.

According to the law I linked to above, I have to show my US passport to leave the country, which was news to me, and my Canadian passport to show I have the right to enter Canada. Because, as a Canadian citizen, I don't have the right to enter Canada using my US Passport. And this has never happened to me: I can show either to the airlines, and they will make their assumptions accordingly. However, they would be in a world of hurt if I only had my US passport on me, and the Canadian border agent decided to play hardball and not just delay me at the border, but sent me back to get my passport or a one-time travel document from the consulate.

I am not sure how people's experiences crossing the US-Mexico border with an American passport has any relevance to the experiences of Russians currently trying to go elsewhere.

It's US to any international destination: a US citizen by law needs to show a passport to leave the country. I thought that it was different for Russian citizens, who need to show a passport to leave Russia.