ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[marbri]

I do think there’s a tendency for people to infantilise populations and say ‘oh they couldn’t actually think that or support that’. Just because it seems so far from our perspective. I think of plenty of examples in various conflicts.

What has been painfully obvious for at least the last 5-6 years is how large groups of people can be brainwashed and misled.

 

[reut]

I’m not disappointed. I just think there’s a very real possibility that some people may have been there by force.

Define "force".

There is this famous joke in Russian:
"A lion walks in the forest, meets a fox, says:
-Fox, I write you down for 9am, come to me, I'll eat you for breakfast.
Fox says "ok" and leaves crying.
Lion continues walking, meets a bear, says:
-Bear, I write you down for 1pm, come to me, I'll eat you for lunch.
Bear says "ok" and leaves crying.
Lion continues walking, meets a rabbit, says:
-Rabbit, I write you down for 6pm, come to me, I'll eat you for dinner.
-What if I don't come? Is it Ok?
-Ok, I strike you off."

There were lists and numbers and buses that took people from work/uni. Is that "force"? Do we know which consequences were for those who didn't come? Any actual proof and not just some tweet.

But even if there were consequences. You see, this is going on for years in Russia, and things are getting worse. They had a chance to protest when it was "safer", they didn't. It's less safe now (still no prison time, for now, in Belarus, for example, it's already prison and punishment camps), but with time - many analytics agree on this scenario - things will get much worse.

 

[starrynight]

That joke about the fox and the bear made me really sad for some reason. Perhaps it’s time for me to take an internet break!

 

[aka_gerbil]

Define "force".

One example: threaten to kill or harm a parent, sibling, or other loved one.

This is not something new to dictatorships. We don’t know specifically everything going on now. But, we know from history books that people do get threatened/forced/coerced to do things in dictatorships.

If I lived in a dictatorship and someone threatened my parents or my sibling and her child, I’d do what I had to to keep them safe.

 

[reut]

One example: threaten to kill or harm a parent, sibling, or other loved one.

I need an actual proof that such threats were voiced to those who were "forced" to go to that concert and wear "z" on their vests. Do you have such proof?

Because anything else is just speculations of what was happening somewhere some time ago. But, like I said, it definitely will come to that at some point, maybe even pretty soon (the more concerts like that and supporters like that the sooner), many analysts are saying that, there is no doubt about that. They are not there now.

 

[overedge]

Translation of Katsalapov's Speech from yesterday: [snip]

"It is very important for me to compete at international competitions under the flag of my homeland. There should be no politics in sports."

Seriously, what? If there were no politics in sports, no one would be competing under their country's flag at all.

 

[Karen-W]

For those asking about the financial means some of these athletes have... For the skaters, at least, both Sinitsina and Katsalapov have sponsorship/modeling deals, plus they made more than a fair bit of money from their WC last year and other competitions. But, that's not where they make their real money - it's in the touring and figure skating tours & shows have been huge in Russia (like North American 90s/early 00s type of money) for the better part of the last decade. TarMor might not have the same sort of deals or perform in as many tours as SinKats, but I'm sure both teams are making more than enough to pay for their coaching and expenses, live well, and put money in the bank. And the Averina twins are in an even better position than the skaters, because RG is just as lucrative in Russia and they've been dominant on the world championship level for such a long time. It's flat out moronic to think these athletes are without the financial means to leave the country, with their immediate families, if they wished.

 

[aka_gerbil]

T/M were unable to afford to live/train in the US without a sponsor to pay for it.

They and their immediate family (parents, elderly grandparents living with parents, siblings) is at least 9 people. That’s not a small number of people to try to relocate, particularly if they were going to seek asylum for everyone. There are plenty of reports in the last 24 hours from at least the US (the country T/m would have most ties to) that Russians are being denied entry to seek asylum. These are people trying to do it right and not seek in to the country and they’re being told no.

I need an actual proof that such threats were voiced to those who were "forced" to go to that concert and wear "z" on their vests. Do you have such proof?

Do you have actual proof that they were not forced?

What we have at this point is this BBC article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60793319.amp

 

[BittyBug]

@aka_gerbil please stop making excuses. This world is full of refugees who fled their homeland with nothing because they could not abide their circumstances anymore. It's not easy, but it can be done. And there are lots of countries where Russians do not require a visa. I'm not discounting the possibility that people were forced to go to the rally, but if someone wants to leave Russia, they can and will find a way.

 

[reut]

Do you have actual proof that they were not forced?

What we have at this point is this BBC article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60793319.amp

I didn't find there anything about "threaten to kill or harm a parent, sibling, or other loved one".
So currently it's your (wild) imagination and it's you who need to bring a proof, not me.

 

[zebraswan]

Someone might have plenty of money in the bank, but they aren't allowed to leave the country with more than $10,000. And good luck exchanging any rubles now if you didn't manage to do it weeks ago. And you can't use Russian-issued credit cards outside of Russia. Other services like PayPal, Western Union, etc are blocked.

I wouldn't expect the likes of the Averinas or S/K to want to leave anyway, but for the average citizen who is trying to get out, it can require a fair bit of planning so you don't end up stranded abroad without access to your life savings.

 

[genevieve]

@genevieve - could you maybe change this thread title too like in PI? To war from Russia instead of crisis.

The thread title is worded that way because that's the wording that the ISU used.

I only saw the request now, and changed it before seeing skatingguy's post about why the thread was named as it was. Apologies if this is adding to confusion - I'm erring on the side of being mindful to Ukrainians.

 

[airgelaal]

T/M were unable to afford to live/train in the US without a sponsor to pay for it.

I've always wondered how other foreign skaters find money to train abroad (and not everyone has rich parents or a rich federation) and only Russians can't afford it.

 

[MacMadame]

I wouldn't expect the likes of the Averinas or S/K to want to leave anyway, but for the average citizen who is trying to get out, it can require a fair bit of planning so you don't end up stranded abroad without access to your life savings.

But we aren't talking about the average citizen. We are talking about the Averinas and S/K.

 

[Dobre]

Have we seen any skaters without a non-Russian passport leave the country? How about coaches?

(After the ISU restrictions against Russian skaters competing in ISU events were put into place).

 

[aka_gerbil]

I’m guessing there are plenty of people who’d like to train abroad and couldn’t and I know there are even people who wanted to train domestically and had to stop. The only other skaters abroad that I follow closely enough are h/d. Their families are not wealthy and the first year or two in Canada (before they started winning big), the moms were both workimg multiple jobs to help make it happen (with a favorable exchange rate). We could probably have a whole thread on funding around the globe.

 

[Vagabond]

Have we seen any skaters without a non-Russian passport leave the country? How about coaches?

(After the ISU restrictions against Russian skaters competing in ISU events were put into place).

We may not know this for a few years.

I would not be surprised if a few coaches and young skaters had already left surreptitiously after the revelation that Valieva had tested positive, as they may have foreseen that Russia would be banned from international competition. Equally, some may have fled after the invasion began.

 

[Dobre]

We may not know this for a few years.

I would not be surprised if a few coaches and young skaters had already left surreptitiously after the revelation that Valieva had tested positive, as they may have foreseen that Russia would be banned from international competition. Equally, some may have fled after the invasion began.

OK, for clarity's sake, I'm not really referring to young athletes that have no public name or propaganda value for the Russian government. I'm asking whether any established athletes or coaches that do not have a second-country passport have left at this point?

 

[Vagabond]

OK, for clarity's sake, I'm not really referring to young athletes that have no public name or propaganda value for the Russian government. I'm asking whether any established athletes or coaches that do not have a second-country passport have left at this point?

We still might not know that for years. It would be in their interest to lay low right now.

 

[zebraswan]

But we aren't talking about the average citizen. We are talking about the Averinas and S/K.

They would still need to be able to access money somehow. They're certainly not going to get special favors trying to GTFO, quite the opposite - they would definitely be branded traitors...did you not hear the "fifth column" speech? And they probably get plenty of special treatment staying in Russia and being cheerleaders for Putin, so why would they even consider leaving? Especially when it hasn't even been a month since all this started. The full effect of sanctions and isolation have barely begun. We will see how they feel in a few months' time.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I never suggested that any skaters did. I was writing about an oligarch and his wife. You do understand that, don't you?

Didn't you just complain about a post being "patronizing"? Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[starrynight]

Especially when it hasn't even been a month since all this started. The full effect of sanctions and isolation have barely begun. We will see how they feel in a few months' time.

I agree. Perhaps people are just hoping this will blow over (I don’t think it will). For now it seems sports training and everything is continuing as usual. Perhaps things will appear differently when the 2022/2023 season starts without them and the sanctions start effecting training and shows.

 

[Dobre]

So we don't have any evidence that they can leave, then? There seems to be an assumption in some of the posts above that it would not be that difficult for top athletes to leave the country, but I'm concerned it might be. Although I generally agree with reut's post #485 as well.

We have a lot of evidence that athletes & people with second passports have been able to leave the country and a lot of evidence that a number have chosen to do so. I would think that many of the Russian athletes and coaches must be reeling. So much has changed so fast. But also I would think some must be considering leaving. Many have connections. They have a valuable skill set. They are in an unenviable position of being used by the government if they stay. Of course, they also have family, careers, and emotional ties in Russia. The currently competing athletes haven't been released from their federation, nor at this point, has there been any announcement that guarantees such a release would be granted over their federation's wishes. This wouldn't be relevant for the coaches though.

Until this week, I thought such a choice would likely feel premature to most people who have worked so hard to establish themselves at home and earn their place among the elite Russian skating community. But between Putin's speech and the rally, the scale is tipping.

 

[Vagabond]

So we don't have any evidence that they can leave, then?

I have seen several articles about Russians who fled Russia for places such as Georgia and Turkey after Russia invaded Ukraine. Here is a link to one: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220308-georgia-a-bleak-new-home-for-russian-exiles

These exiles tend to be well educated and capable of starting from scratch in another country. They apparently travel on Russian passports. There are still flights from Moscow to those foreign countries that will allow them. I have looked for articles that say that Russia is prohibiting ordinary citizens (or anyone who has not been detained) from going abroad and have not found any so far.

On the other hand, I can well understand why top athletes wouldn't want to go abroad, including loss of income and the possibility that they might never be able to get back into Russia.

 

[airgelaal]

I wonder where all the skaters will go on vacation. I doubt that everyone will choose Sochi.

 

[taz'smum]

OK, for clarity's sake, I'm not really referring to young athletes that have no public name or propaganda value for the Russian government. I'm asking whether any established athletes or coaches that do not have a second-country passport have left at this point?

Any person who is a Russian citizen has to leave Russia on their Russian passport. You must always present your Russian passport at passport control when leaving Russia.

If you tried to present a foreign passport instead, they would immediately know you have another passport from the lack of Russian visa in the foreign passport.

So having a foreign passport doesn’t help you a lot at the Russian border if there are restrictions on Russian citizens leaving Russia.

 

[Frau Muller]

About Alisher Usmanov and Irina Viner -
… Don’t know if that means they’ve left Russia or are just peacing out in their Uzbeki Palace.

If they’re in Uzbekistan, they’re out of Russia. Uzbekistan is a sovereign nation…like Ukraine.

 

[Frau Muller]

Just curious if former US National ice dance champ Peter Tchernichev is still in Russia? He starred in the last Navka show, Swan Lake (maybe others) & was a prominent choreographer in Russia. Surely Peter is still a dual passport holder. Did or will he return to US?

 

[ballettmaus]

If you tried to present a foreign passport instead, they would immediately know you have another passport from the lack of Russian visa in the foreign passport.

I believe it is the same for dual citizens of any country that requires a visa.

A friend says the rule of thumb is: always present the passport of the country that the officer in front of you represents.

 

[once_upon]

Just curious if former US National ice dance champ Peter Tchernichev is still in Russia? He starred in the last Navka show, Swan Lake (maybe others) & was a prominent choreographer in Russia. Surely Peter is still a dual passport holder. Did or will he return to US?

Doesn't his wife, a Russian actress I think, have cancer? He probably doesn't want to leave her behind?