ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[Vagabond]

I am not sure how people's experiences crossing the US-Mexico border with an American passport has any relevance to the experiences of Russians currently trying to go elsewhere.

There was a discussion of whether people in other countries besides Russia were required to show their passports when leaving their own country and a suggestion that Americans did not. That is all.

 

[aka_gerbil]

How do you know they're checking your passport because you're leaving the country, or to meet their legal obligation to be sure you have the right to enter the country of destination, or they will be fined and eat the cost of sending you back?

All I know is they make me show them my passport to be allowed to get on the plane leaving the US and landing in Canada. My assumption is they just want to make sure everyone has a passport so no one gets they’re without it for border control. The why they check was not my point though. My point was I have had to show it to board the plane every time I’ve flown to Canada along with everyone else on the flight. I thought it was odd that you haven’t had to show your passport to get on the plane.

 

[barbk]

All I know is they make me show them my passport to be allowed to get on the plane leaving the US and landing in Canada. My assumption is they just want to make sure everyone has a passport so no one gets they’re without it for border control. The why they check was not my point though. My point was I have had to show it to board the plane every time I’ve flown to Canada along with everyone else on the flight. I thought it was odd that you haven’t had to show your passport to get on the plane.

Airlines have to cover the transport back to the originating country if a passenger arrives without a valid passport and visa, if a visa is required. (And, valid means valid for at least 3 months after the proposed return date, in most cases.) Therefore, airlines tend to be very careful to check passports for outbound passengers.

 

[Deleted member 221]

Re: the passport discussion:

The most critical difference people are missing is that the US, Canada, the UK, and Ireland (and perhaps others) do not conduct routine passport control on exit in airports. Russia does (as does the EU/EEA Schengen Area and most other countries). A Russian citizen cannot leave Russia without presenting their Russian passport. If they present a foreign passport, they will be immediately flagged for not having a visa or a stamp. There is a formal checkpoint before getting to the international departures area.

A U.S. citizen can leave the U.S. without presenting their U.S. passport (regardless of what the law technically says). I have done it countless times. When I leave the U.S. to fly to Europe, I enter my European passport in the Advanced Passenger Information form. I show my European passport to the airline and at the gate. There is no government checkpoint. No U.S. government official asks to see my passport. If one did (e.g., random spot checks), I would show the U.S. passport.

As noted above, other countries do passport exit checks routinely - e.g., it is impossible to leave the country without showing the same passport you used to enter. If I am leaving Italy (for instance) and flying to the U.S., I would enter in my U.S. passport information in the Advanced Passenger information, show my U.S. passport to the check-in desk, then show my Italian passport for the Italy / Schengen exit check (the purpose of this check is to determine how many days you've spent in the country / area, and if you've over-stayed), and finally show my U.S. passport when boarding the plane. If I erroneously showed my U.S. passport on the Italy / Schengen exit check, I'd be flagged as an over-stayer or illegal immigrant and likely detained and questioned.

Actually you have had to show it to leave the US. In the US verification of passport and other documentation has been delegated to the airlines. Which means they have to verify you have the right documents to leave the country.

And in the US they don’t really get hung up on which passport you have. Other countries are different

They're verifying that you have the right documentation to ENTER the country you're going to because the airlines are liable otherwise. In most cases, if you're denied entry, they need to transport you back to where you came from. And they absolutely do care which passport you have if you don't have a return ticket.

Going back to my earlier example, where I'm flying from Europe to the U.S. and back, I need to change the Advanced Passenger Information in between my departure flight and my return flight. When I'm flying to the U.S., I need to enter in the U.S. passport info in the Advanced Passenger Information. Before the return trip, I need to modify the Advanced Passenger Information to my Italian passport.

I have forgotten several times, leaving in the U.S. passport information. If I try to check-in online, I get a "see an agent" message. The airline identifies that I'm a U.S. passport holder travelling to Europe without a return ticket (liability to the airline!), and they ask to see my visa or permission to stay in Europe. I then show the European passport, and they do a manual update.

As for different experiences: I believe not all airlines check passports at the gate. Some only check passports at check-in, and then page passengers who are carry-on only to check their passports rather than having everyone show passports at the gate. And I've been part of AI-enabled boarding, where your passport is scanned at check-in, and then facial recognition allows you to board a plane wiht no check of documents or even boarding pass.

 

[kalamalka]

I was surprised to read, a few years ago, that anyone born in Russia must get a Russian passport to travel to Russia, rather than a visa. That would apply to my mother, who was still at that point considering making another trip. She left Russia with her parents in 1927, and was naturalized Canadian (at that time British) in the 1930s. I don't know if that's being more strictly enforced than it was, since she went to the USSR twice in the 1980s with a Canadian passport and visa.

 

[marbri]

I was surprised to read, a few years ago, that anyone born in Russia must get a Russian passport to travel to Russia, rather than a visa. That would apply to my mother, who was still at that point considering making another trip. She left Russia with her parents in 1927, and was naturalized Canadian (at that time British) in the 1930s. I don't know if that's being more strictly enforced than it was, since she went to the USSR twice in the 1980s with a Canadian passport and visa.

I know a few years ago anyone who is a Canadian citizen has to travel to Canada on a Canadian passport. That wasn't always the case.

 

[BittyBug]

I was surprised to read, a few years ago, that anyone born in Russia must get a Russian passport to travel to Russia, rather than a visa. That would apply to my mother, who was still at that point considering making another trip. She left Russia with her parents in 1927, and was naturalized Canadian (at that time British) in the 1930s. I don't know if that's being more strictly enforced than it was, since she went to the USSR twice in the 1980s with a Canadian passport and visa.

From the experience of people I know, this is not true - born in the Soviet Union but cannot get a Russian passport without proving all types of things like residency, because in the eyes of the Russian government, the Soviet Union was a different country. There was a limited period of time to convert Soviet citizenship to Russian citizenship and it long ago expired. If someone did not convert, then they would have to apply for Russian citizenship and go through all of the related requirements as any foreigner seeking citizenship.

What is true is that if you hold a Russian passport you must enter Russia on that passport.

 

[starrynight]

I note with interest that Elena Illinykh and Sergei Polunin have relocated their family to Dubai.

Polunin being staunchly pro Putin and with a Putin tattoo on his chest.

Perhaps I thought they would be more likely to stay and be at that rally than Tarasova/Morozov etc. Goes to show that things are not always as they seem.

 

[airgelaal]

I note with interest that Elena Illinykh and Sergei Polunin have relocated their family to Dubai.

Polunin being staunchly pro Putin and with a Putin tattoo on his chest.

Perhaps I thought they would be more likely to stay and be at that rally than Tarasova/Morozov etc. Goes to show that things are not always as they seem.

Not only Putin, but also the coat of arms of Ukraine. Maybe he finally remembered his Ukrainian citizenship.

 

[starrynight]

Not only Putin, but also the coat of arms of Ukraine. Maybe he finally remembered his Ukrainian citizenship.

I expect he probably got the tattoo to try to look edgy and rebellious.

If he wants to live outside of Russia these days and go swimming he’s going to need to get that removed.

 

[Yehudi]

I note with interest that Elena Illinykh and Sergei Polunin have relocated their family to Dubai.

Polunin being staunchly pro Putin and with a Putin tattoo on his chest.

Perhaps I thought they would be more likely to stay and be at that rally than Tarasova/Morozov etc. Goes to show that things are not always as they seem.

They were already there before the invasion. Elena is pregnant again so they probably wanted to give birth where there was better healthcare.

 

[Bigbird]

They were already there before the invasion. Elena is pregnant again so they probably wanted to give birth where there was better healthcare.

What is the challenge with Russian healthcare? It seems almost everybody is running somewhere else.

 

[pachelbel]

They were already there before the invasion. Elena is pregnant again so they probably wanted to give birth where there was better healthcare.

She might give birth to an anchor baby in the US like they did with their first child.

 

[starrynight]

She might give birth to an anchor baby in the US like they did with their first child.

You can’t get Emirati citizenship that easily. I know people that have worked there and there is an enormous divide between Emirati citizens and ‘expats’.

 

[Sylvia]

Here’s an article by Dvora Meyers about the Russians not being able to compete at Worlds (March 21):

Russia’s Figure Skating Ban Will Reverberate For Years To Come

One peculiarity of the figure skating competition calendar is that during an Olympic year, the world championships are contested about a month after the Games. …

fivethirtyeight.com

 

[barbk]

Here’s an article by Dvora Meyers about the Russians not being able to compete at Worlds (March 21):

Russia’s Figure Skating Ban Will Reverberate For Years To Come

One peculiarity of the figure skating competition calendar is that during an Olympic year, the world championships are contested about a month after the Games. …

fivethirtyeight.com

Interesting. I have also been thinking that some Russian skaters (particularly younger ones or those who missed this year due to injury) locked out of international comps for a year or more will have trouble with the ISU minimums.

 

[dawnie]

So nobody wants to mention that Sotnikova was one of the ORGANIZERS of the pro-war event? And proudly posted her smugly smiling and singing during said event??

 

[Wyliefan]

So nobody wants to mention that Sotnikova was one of the ORGANIZERS of the event? And proudly posted her smugly smiling and singing??

Saw a lot of talk about it on Reddit.

The bizarre thing was that so many people were like, "Well, I always hated her, and now she's finally given me a reason to." I mean ... yeah, okay, get mad at her for this, she fully deserves it, but to have held a grudge against her for so many years for the Olympic gold was just -- I don't know, kind of weird.

 

[Dobre]

It makes me sad. It's yet another skater I have loved--like Harding and Staviski--whose personal choices did not live up to the magic the athlete creates/created on the ice.

 

[MacMadame]

So nobody wants to mention that Sotnikova was one of the ORGANIZERS of the pro-war event?

Can't talk about stuff you don't know. We knew she was there and smiling and taking part with gusto but this is the first I've heard that she was an organizer.

 

[MsZem]

So nobody wants to mention that Sotnikova was one of the ORGANIZERS of the pro-war event? And proudly posted her smugly smiling and singing during said event??

You posted the same thing in two different threads; are you under the impression that people on FSU are hesitant to discuss her or any other Russian skater involved in this event?

A more reasonable take on this is, as MacMadame posted, that people have so far criticized her enthusiastic participation in the event but were unaware that she was an organizer.

 

[Sylvia]

Aljona Savchenko spoke to Eurosport (March 22):

https://www.eurosport.com/figure-skating/inhumane-2018-olympic-champion-aljona-savchenko-speechless-after-seeing-figure-skaters-at-putin-rall_sto8856138/story.shtml

 

[Sylvia]

Opinion piece by Christine Brennan - US team medal no longer a priority as attention turns to Ukrainian ice dancers (March 22):

US team medal no longer a priority as attention turns to Ukrainian ice dancers | Opinion

As the international figure skating community gathers for the world championships, skaters have turned their attention to Ukraine's ice dance team.

www.usatoday.com

(Cross-posted in the "... delays ceremony for team medals" thread in GSD)

 

[Sylvia]

Patinage magazine posted this photo from Worlds practice: https://www.instagram.com/p/CbapYhZIlzr/

A special thought for the Ukrainian couple Sofiia HOLICHENKO & Artem DARENSKYI surrounded by the Americans Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE & Timothy LEDUC and Alexa KNIERIM & Brandon FRAZIER during the training of the world championships prepared not necessarily in the best conditions.
Good luck to them.

Une pensée particulière pour le couple ukrainien Sofiia HOLICHENKO & Artem DARENSKYI entouré des Américains Ashley CAIN-GRIBBLE & Timothy LEDUC et Alexa KNIERIM & Brandon FRAZIER lors des entraînements des championnats du monde préparés pas forcément dans les meilleures conditions.
Bonne chance à eux.

Mariah Bell posted an on ice photo today wearing the colors of the Ukrainian flag and it was nice to see Liza Tuktamysheva's comment ("Good luck girl!! "): https://www.instagram.com/p/CbaMGpyuwOz/

 

[Nadya]

I was surprised to read, a few years ago, that anyone born in Russia must get a Russian passport to travel to Russia, rather than a visa. That would apply to my mother, who was still at that point considering making another trip. She left Russia with her parents in 1927, and was naturalized Canadian (at that time British) in the 1930s. I don't know if that's being more strictly enforced than it was, since she went to the USSR twice in the 1980s with a Canadian passport and visa.

Not quite so. The rule applies to everyone born in Russia after a certain date. I may be wrong but I think it is sometime around 1992. In the early post-USSR days there was a general absence of regulations around this, and many Russian-Americans opted to visit Russia with a Russian visa. Then they decided that everyone born after date X is de facto a Russian citizen, and stopped issuing Russian visas to anyone whose US passport indicates place/date of birth fitting the rule. Instead, they required them to apply for and obtain Russian passports if they wanted to travel to Russia. This was a major PITA for many.

There is also a rule that a child born of two Russian citizen parents ANYWHERE is de facto a Russian citizen, and must obtain a Russian passport to visit Russia.

 

[Wyliefan]

Wow, Shabotova's been kicked off the Ukrainian team!

https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1506677559240581126

 

[Karen-W]

Wow, Shabotova's been kicked off the Ukrainian team!

https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1506677559240581126

Well, she was being pretty dumb with her social media likes, so it's understandable, even if it is a shame because I liked her skating. Ukraine has a good junior in Fomchenkova and she's now training in Oberstdorf per her IG, so they'll be fine in the long run.

 

[Vagabond]

A much needed learning experience. She may never skate internationally again, and she will know why.

 

[pachelbel]

You can’t get Emirati citizenship that easily. I know people that have worked there and there is an enormous divide between Emirati citizens and ‘expats’.

OK? How is that relevant to this:

She might give birth to an anchor baby in the US like they did with their first child.

 

[airgelaal]

Wow, Shabotova's been kicked off the Ukrainian team!

https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1506677559240581126

But she is still a member of the federation. She simply will not receive funding as a member of a national team.